Discussion in 'Philadelphia Flyers' started by LegionOfDoom91, Jul 25, 2018.
Ol Bill here made a twitter thread trying to downplay how big it would be to get Hughes and comparing us to Edmonton... which is ridiculous to anyone who looks at this roster or prospect pool
All time worst nonsense by Bill. This team is ****ing last place. They don't need two vets LOL. What a joke.
Imagine trying to convince people who are currently fans of the 2018-19 Flyers not to hope for a “bonafide superstar offensively”.
Go **** yourself.
I don't get it. I thought most everyone here agreed that the Flyers need a top four dman to replace MacDonald and a strong center to replace Weal/push Patrick to 3C?
Hextall was in charge when the #2 overall pick went straight on to the Flyers.
Fletcher actually seems more reluctant to promote skater prospects to the NHL, than Hextall was. The Flyers roster still only has 6 healthy dmen while Phil Myers sits in his Allentown apartment wondering what the **** he has to do to get a promotion.
There are some completely reasonable points in there, but yeah, it's a terrible comparison unless Fletcher goes full Chiarelli.
I wish these discussions were framed around a word other than tanking. If they go on a winning streak because young/core players improve, that's a positive outcome you should never discourage.
Meltzer has always been anti tank but anti tanks folks always point out the failures and never mention that the teams that actually win the cup have been built with pieces from the very top of the draft. Pittsburgh: Malkin, Crosby. Washington: Ovechkin. Chicago: Kane. LA: Doughty. All guys taken in the top 2 of the draft by those teams. All in the top 2 or 3 at their position. All likely Hall of Famers. None of those teams win without those guys. That’s 9 out of the last 10 cup winners.
What about the 10th, Boston. Ok. So all the Flyers have to do is find a hall of fame defender in free agency and a near hall of fame goalie as an old free agent out of Europe who both got better as they aged into their 30’s as opposed to declining like the vast majority of players. Seems reproducible.
Limiting arguments to Cup/Super Bowl/World Series/X winners is not a logical approach. Washington didn't magically become a model in June.
I mean, he isn't entirely wrong. I've said that for years tanking is not the way to build your way to the Cup finals. It can't just be high draft picks otherwise teams like Edmonton, NYI, AZ, and other perennial cellar dwellers would be dynasties. You need vets. You need youth. You need speed. You need grit. You need offense. You need defense. You need a goalie. You need luck. You need to stay healthy. You need a guy you didn't expect to come out of nowhere and make an impact. At this point, I am fully on for the "Lose for Hughes" plan because this season is a complete and total disaster, but it does not guarantee you anything other than getting a high draft pick. They need to make some changes and that might mean dealing someone we don't want to or signing a guy or two that is (GASP!) pushing 30. This team has a good core and I do think adding Hughes will help, but just getting high draft picks is meaningless if you can't put together the rest of the team.
Patrick played for the Flyers even coming off surgery in his post-draft season.
Anyone in the top 5 would probably play, at worst, he'd start in in 2020-21.
Tank away, the right forward, combined with Frost, could lead a quick turnaround.
The core isn't good, or they wouldn't have an awful record.
Time to move out some of the guys who haven't delivered in 8 years and 4 HCs.
But the flood of prospects is on the doorstep, that takes care of the depth issue that has sunk Edmonton.
What the Flyers lack are the premier prospects, Patrick has shown flashes, Frost has promise, Farabee could be special, Hart could be an elite goalie down the road, TK, Sanheim, Lindblom, Myers - add a top 5 pick to that young core and the prospect depth becomes that much more valuable (both on the ice and as trade assets).
Tanking doesn’t guarantee a cup but you need special players to win one. Every now and again a team without a hall of fame level talent wins it like Carolina but it isn’t very often. The most reproducible way to acquire that talent is at the top of the draft. Every now and again a guy will be found later in the draft but that is rare. There are now 31 teams with scouts everywhere. Teams aren’t pulling a Lidstrom out of the 3rd round anymore. Just look at Elias Pettersson. 20 years ago he probably taken in the later first or even 2nd round but now goes top 5. It’s harder for guys to slip through the cracks with more scouts now.
So if you playing the percentages, finishing last gives the Flyers a 18.5% chance of getting Hughes. Do you think the percent chance of drafting a Hughes like talent at 14 overall is more or less that that?
Flyers don't NEED Hughes, we'd love to have him, but they just need to pick a top 6 forward.
It's not Hughes or bust, it's a top forward to fill out the top two lines for a half dozen years or bust.
the reason why oilers were always a dumpster fire is because that fo never did anything to improve the team even they got high draft picks, they kept tanking and never did anything, comparing to the flyers we will probably get another talented player whether it's hughes or someone else but their goal is to improve the team in the offseason, that's why hextall and the coach are canned.
They should forsure sell and tank for Hughes
They're worst in the league without trying to tank, but due to the lottery they may well pick higher in 2017 when they finished 19th.
Finishing last gives you an 18.5% chance of getting Hughes at #1, and only a 49.4% chance of being in the top 3.
Tankathon | 2019 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator
They need to sell either way. I’ll gladly take the extra 5% chance.
Selling Simmonds might well improve the team...
The Flyers are in last and it's evident they won't come back in any shape or form this year. Hughes/Kakko could make a huge difference for the Flyers, especially when you have awesome players like these with a legit coach for all of training camp. Bill is stuck thinking we're still trying to compete but we ****ing aren't. We are basically mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in January. Picking up vets right now is not ideal in any ****ing form.
I just did a fresh test and ran it 10 times. 1 time in 2nd, twice in 3rd and 7 times out of the top 3. Yet before that, I got a bunch for 1st. So who knows.
Those team tanked not just for one season. They were bad for like an entire generation and lucked into elite players eventually after also building up the roster with high picks.
No I don't doubt that you get a better chance to get a better player by picking higher, that is obvious. But that isn't all it takes to get over the hump. If it were that easy no one would trade draft picks and no one would try to win until they had a McDavid or a Crosby. And to be clear, at this point, I am 100% in on lose for Hughes like I said originally. But I don't think getting Hughes makes a lock for anything.
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