Official 2013 Patriots/NFL Thread-Part V

[JRull86]

Because they're not deep at all. Every team has injuries, you just don't notice it as much on the deep teams.

That's not what I meant. I meant it seems every year they lose 2-4 important players. I mean look at this year so far:

Gronkowski (even though they knew)
Vereen
Wilfork
Mayo
Amendola (probably again)
Talib (possibly)


Through 6 games, that's absurd.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Reading the past 2 pages of this thread reassures me that this team is ****ed.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

That's not what I meant. I meant it seems every year they lose 2-4 important players. I mean look at this year so far:

Gronkowski (even though they knew)
Vereen
Wilfork
Mayo
Amendola (probably again)
Talib (possibly)


Through 6 games, that's absurd.

Notable 49ers who have missed games:

Michael Crabtree
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Aldon Smith
Mario Manningham
Ian Williams
Chris Culliver
Nnamdi Asomugha

The 49ers are deep, so you don't hear about it. The Patriots are not, so you do.

 

[EverettMike]

Notable 49ers who have missed games:

Michael Crabtree
Patrick Willis
Vernon Davis
Aldon Smith
Mario Manningham
Ian Williams
Chris Culliver
Nnamdi Asomugha

The 49ers are deep, so you don't hear about it. The Patriots are not, so you do.

You don't hear about it? Before the season I was reading about the 49ers having trouble at wide receiver.

Just last week I avoided them in my knockout pool because I was reading how many rookies they were starting and how they were thin.

Stop it. There is a salary cap. No one is deep anymore.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

You don't hear about it? Before the season I was reading about the 49ers having trouble at wide receiver.

Just last week I avoided them in my knockout pool because I was reading how many rookies they were starting and how they were thin.

Stop it. There is a salary cap. No one is deep anymore.

Especially teams that start the season with 1 decent cornerback, no tight ends, and 1 decent injury-prone wide receiver.

The Patriots have absolutely no depth, even by salary-cap-era standards.

 

[EverettMike]

Especially teams that start the season with 1 decent cornerback, no tight ends, and 1 decent injury-prone wide receiver.

The Patriots have absolutely no depth, even by salary-cap-era standards.

They have one decent cornerback? Nonsense.

They have one tight end they thought would be back in three weeks, and the other starting tight end murdered someone a few weeks before the season started. So they probably should have seen that coming.

I totally agree about the wide receivers. Hated the plan coming into the season. But Amendola is really good when healthy, so you can't get injury-prone and decent.

(Edelman is better than you give him credit for apparently.)

The Pats are 5-1 by the way.

That means 5 wins, 1 loss.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

The Pats are 5-1 by the way.

That means 5 wins, 1 loss.

Oh, they've done a great job dealing with the injuries, no doubt. Their schedule has certainly helped a lot, too. But my comment was responding to the "Why does it seem like the Patriots always get decimated by injuries" comment. It always seems like that because no matter where the injury is, there's never anyone of note backing them up. If Gronk is out, who's the tight end? If Talib goes down, who covers guys like Jimmy Graham? If Wilfork goes down, who anchors the DL? If Amendola takes his semi-annual injury vacation, who does Tom Brady throw the ball to? Other teams have answers to at least some of these questions. Lately, the Patriots don't.

 

[EverettMike]

Oh, they've done a great job dealing with the injuries, no doubt. Their schedule has certainly helped a lot, too. But my comment was responding to the "Why does it seem like the Patriots always get decimated by injuries" comment. It always seems like that because no matter where the injury is, there's never anyone of note backing them up. If Gronk is out, who's the tight end? If Talib goes down, who covers guys like Jimmy Graham? If Wilfork goes down, who anchors the DL? If Amendola takes his semi-annual injury vacation, who does Tom Brady throw the ball to? Other teams have answers to at least some of these questions. Lately, the Patriots don't.

Do you not see the inherent oxymoronic nature of this post?

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Do you not see the inherent oxymoronic nature of this post?

You think depth is the only way to win with injuries?

I'd say they're winning despite their lack of depth, not because of their depth. In my opinion, they've been winning mostly because of their easy schedule, but also because they have one of the top coaches and one of the top quarterbacks in the league. That's not depth.

2-4 opponent, won by 2
3-3 opponent, won by 3
0-5 opponent, won by 20
1-4 opponent, won by 7
4-2 opponent, lost by 7
5-1 opponent, won by 3

Hardly dominant stuff, there.

 

[EverettMike]

You think depth is the only way to win with injuries?

I'd say they're winning despite their lack of depth, not because of their depth. In my opinion, they've been winning mostly because of their easy schedule, but also because they have one of the top coaches and one of the top quarterbacks in the league. That's not depth.

2-4 opponent, won by 2
3-3 opponent, won by 3
0-5 opponent, won by 20
1-4 opponent, won by 7
4-2 opponent, lost by 7
5-1 opponent, won by 3

Hardly dominant stuff, there.

1) So they have no depth......but they are winning in spite of it. That is amazing.

Which teams do have depth? Which teams can replace a Vince Wilfork or a Jerod Mayo or a Rob Gronkowski?

2) Which teams have been dominant?

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Notable 49ers who have missed games:



The 49ers are deep, so you don't hear about it. The Patriots are not, so you do.

1) So they have no depth......but they are winning in spite of it. That is amazing.

Which teams do have depth? Which teams can replace a Vince Wilfork or a Jerod Mayo or a Rob Gronkowski?

Let's use the 49ers example again:

Michael Crabtree -> Anquan Boldin (2013 offseason trade)
Patrick Willis -> Navorro Bowman
Vernon Davis -> Vance McDonald (2013 2nd round pick)
Aldon Smith -> Tank Carradine (2013 2nd round pick) and Corey Lemonier (2013 3rd round pick)
Mario Manningham -> Not much
Ian Williams -> Glenn Dorsey (2013 offseason signing)
Chris Culliver -> Eric Wright (2013 offseason signing)
Nnamdi Asomugha -> Tramaine Brock (http://is.gd/sCJHVE)

Look at all of those 2013 offseason moves that ended up paying dividends immediately. It's almost as if they understand that football is a violent game, and that you can't expect every player to stay healthy all year. And since there's no way of knowing which player is going to go down, you need to have depth at every position. Some teams get this. Lately, the Patriots haven't.

 

[EverettMike]

Haha. Yes, and clearly the Patriots have just been replacing everyone with a mannequin.

Totally ludicrous. All you did was name their replacements, while ignoring that they aren't as good, and that San Francisco hasn't been as good as last year. You say the Pats and their 5-1 record isn't dominating. How is 4-2 San Francisco's domination going?

Oh, and this is from Matt Barrows three days ago on the Sacramento Bee 49ers blog:

Already short on nose tackles, the 49ers watched starter Glenn Dorsey go down with an apparent hamstring injury on the Cardinals third offensive series Sunday.

In-season problem?

From the San Jose Mercury news before the season:

The 49ers are thin at receiver thanks to Michael Crabtree's torn Achilles tendon, and there are a lot of question marks after Boldin. So when Kyle Williams was ruled out for Thursday's exhibition opener against Denver, it was Marlon Moore who got the opportunity to run with the starting 11.

From a column written by Richard Langford:

The problem with Crabtree's absence is not just the familiarity Kaepernick is losing but the fact that San Francisco has no one to replace his production.

Anquan Boldin is a quality receiver, but he doesn't have the ability to consistently get open when defenses can focus on him. Boldin relies on his strength, smarts and hands to make catches. He is not much of a deep threat. All of this makes it far too easy for defenses to take Boldin out of the equation when they don't have much else to fear in the 49ers' passing game.

Written way back on October 3rd.

Again, ludicrous. This isn't the 70s. Hell it isn't even the mid 90s.

 

[EverettMike]

"The Pats don't have depth and don't care about it" is right out of the Michael Felger playbook too.

And every single year, every single year, the Pats are one of the teams that have the most players claimed on the last big cut down day. Why is that? They have so many crap players and no depth that they can afford to drop a bunch of guys that end up on other teams?

 

[EverettMike]

What would the Pats do if Brady went down?

I don't know. They aren't as in wonderful shape as the 49ers if Kaepernick goes down and the awesome Colt McCoy has to come in.

Colt McCoy!

 

[EverettMike]

You know, the 49ers do have good depth at cornerback though.

But why don't they care about depth at linebacker?

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-depth-outside-linebacker-tested

Are they cheap? Do they just not care? If they cared they wouldn't be trading it for 7th round picks.

Right?

 

[Seidenbergy]

1) So they have no depth......but they are winning in spite of it. That is amazing.

Which teams do have depth? Which teams can replace a Vince Wilfork or a Jerod Mayo or a Rob Gronkowski?

2) Which teams have been dominant?

Broncos have been without the following all year:

Clady
Von Miller
Champ Bailey

All top 3-5 in the league at their positions.

In addition, they've lost their other 2 starting LBs to injury, and 2 of their other 4 starting OLinemen to injury....already this season (among others).

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Let's use the 49ers example again:

Michael Crabtree -> Anquan Boldin (2013 offseason trade)
Patrick Willis -> Navorro Bowman
Vernon Davis -> Vance McDonald (2013 2nd round pick)
Aldon Smith -> Tank Carradine (2013 2nd round pick) and Corey Lemonier (2013 3rd round pick)
Mario Manningham -> Not much
Ian Williams -> Glenn Dorsey (2013 offseason signing)
Chris Culliver -> Eric Wright (2013 offseason signing)
Nnamdi Asomugha -> Tramaine Brock (http://is.gd/sCJHVE)

Look at all of those 2013 offseason moves that ended up paying dividends immediately. It's almost as if they understand that football is a violent game, and that you can't expect every player to stay healthy all year. And since there's no way of knowing which player is going to go down, you need to have depth at every position. Some teams get this. Lately, the Patriots haven't.

Bowman and Boldin were already starters. Not replacement players.

And you can't say the Patriots are winning game just because of Belichick and Brady. Brady's struggled for most of the year.

Defensive tackle and Tight End we had plenty of depth. But we lost our top three defensive tackles (hopefully Kelly and Armstead come back soon) and our top two Tight Ends (hopefully Gronk comes back soon).

The only position I'd say we don't have much depth is Offensive Tackle (EDIT: and Defensive End).

We don't have a strong receiving core, but depth isn't the issue there.

Oh, and on Mayo. I've been wanting Hightower to have a bigger role for a while. He's more athletic than Mayo. Hightower, Spikes and Jamie Collins is a fine LB trio. And most of the time only two of them will be on the field.

We hear about Patriots injuries more because we're Patriots fans. Not because of our supposed lack of depth. At least not this year.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Haha. Yes, and clearly the Patriots have just been replacing everyone with a mannequin.

Totally ludicrous. All you did was name their replacements, while ignoring that they aren't as good, and that San Francisco hasn't been as good as last year. You say the Pats and their 5-1 record isn't dominating. How is 4-2 San Francisco's domination going?

Oh, and this is from Matt Barrows three days ago on the Sacramento Bee 49ers blog:



In-season problem?

From the San Jose Mercury news before the season:



From a column written by Richard Langford:



Written way back on October 3rd.

Again, ludicrous. This isn't the 70s. Hell it isn't even the mid 90s.

"The Pats don't have depth and don't care about it" is right out of the Michael Felger playbook too.

And every single year, every single year, the Pats are one of the teams that have the most players claimed on the last big cut down day. Why is that? They have so many crap players and no depth that they can afford to drop a bunch of guys that end up on other teams?

What would the Pats do if Brady went down?

I don't know. They aren't as in wonderful shape as the 49ers if Kaepernick goes down and the awesome Colt McCoy has to come in.

Colt McCoy!

You know, the 49ers do have good depth at cornerback though.

But why don't they care about depth at linebacker?

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-depth-outside-linebacker-tested

Are they cheap? Do they just not care? If they cared they wouldn't be trading it for 7th round picks.

Right?

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself there, chief.

It'll be okay.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself there, chief.

It'll be okay.

And the vacuous response comes in four and half hours after the reasoned argument is authored. Complete with vapid ridicule.

I was looking forward to an earnest attempt at proving your point. Smells to me like you've been served instead.

 

[Rumpy]

And the vacuous response comes in four and half hours after the reasoned argument is authored. Complete with vapid ridicule.

I was looking forward to an earnest attempt at proving your point. Smells to me like you've been served instead.

I felt like I was reading a book haha. That is impressive english and structure sir!

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself there, chief.

It'll be okay.

Actually,

I thought Mike did a pretty good job of convincing everybody reading that you were wrong...









Chief.

 

[nycbruins*]

I agree with mike, but ain't there something to the idea that Kraft & belichik's ego kind of stops the patriots from dishing money out for good replacements of players deemed expendable?

I mean, they're under the cap significantly & are a money-making machine.

The bruins didn't trade seguin & try to replace him with Ryan spooner...they got eriksson. When Horton left, they didn't say soderberg will replace him, they signed iginla.
Seems the patriots always just assume a prospect or backup will take care of it, & the overall talent level on the team isn't fitting of a wealthy football empire, especially when they're not close to the cap

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself there, chief.

It'll be okay.

It is ok in life to admit you are wrong...chief.

 

[Confound]

Reading the past 2 pages of this thread reassures me that this team is ****ed.

Kind of is when it's Brady and a bunch of rookies/scrubs on O and Mayo/Talib/Wilfork all injured on D, those are by far our three most important players on D.

Wtf...why does it always have to be our star players that get hurt and sidelined for a long time.

 

[LSCII]

Kind of is when it's Brady and a bunch of rookies/scrubs on O and Mayo/Talib/Wilfork all injured on D, those are by far our three most important players on D.

Wtf...why does it always have to be our star players that get hurt and sidelined for a long time.

Because football is a very physical, violent sport and injuries happen to every team and players of all skills?