OT - NO POLITICS Off Topic 2020 part XX - Neil Peart, drummer and primary lyricist for Rush, dead at 67

[Kovi]

Much better than being with that iguana's cousins in Florida:
Florida is so cold freezing iguanas are falling out of trees, officials warn

I love that story so much. Poor little noodles.

 

[Fenway]

It's Perfectly Legal For Your Boss to Tell You to Drive a Nicer Car

Suzanne Lucas runs the Evil HR Lady blog.

Tl;dr - "So, while requiring a nice car is legal, using it as a proxy for financial health is sketchy, and the whole thing is just dumb. If it's important to your company that everyone drives new cars, provide them."

One of the most valuable things I learned early on in my career is that it's not illegal to be an *******, as long as you're an ******* to everyone and not an extra big ******* to specific groups of people. It's also not illegal to be a requiring manager, which is a popular sentiment.

I am bothered by this car thing as it just opens a wormhole.

A person could forego buying a new car because the their current one is reliable and they want to either pay off a student loan or bank more for a downpayment on a house or whatever.

Hypothetically - Should HR be concerned if someone is living in a nice suburb, nice car and somehow has a summer place?

 

[CDJ]

Pay me more and I’ll get a better car. Until then f*** off


Boom, problem solved

 

[Bruinaura]

I am bothered by this car thing as it just opens a wormhole.

A person could forego buying a new car because the their current one is reliable and they want to either pay off a student loan or bank more for a downpayment on a house or whatever.

Hypothetically - Should HR be concerned if someone is living in a nice suburb, nice car and somehow has a summer place?

It sounds like something my company powers that be would do.

I joke that they "lead the league in RBIs" -- Really Bad Ideas

 

[Bruinaura]

Argentinian steak - always ask the locals

That's not a steak, that's a roast

 

[Bruinaura]

If my smart TV was really smart, it would be able to rewind to the part of the show where I fell asleep.

 

[LSCII]

Argentinian steak - always ask the locals

Man, you're always living your best life. Very jealous of your travels...

 

[Kate08]

I am bothered by this car thing as it just opens a wormhole.

A person could forego buying a new car because the their current one is reliable and they want to either pay off a student loan or bank more for a downpayment on a house or whatever.

Hypothetically - Should HR be concerned if someone is living in a nice suburb, nice car and somehow has a summer place?

Again, at surface level, it's awful and I completely agree with you.

Given we do not know anything about the company or what the role is, it's really hard to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

At worst, it's an awful thing and an awful company.

At best, it may be legitimate but executed incredibly poorly.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

 

[ODAAT]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

all fingers and toes crossed for you, know the feeling too well, our Beagle got out Christmas night, 4 hours of worry, fear and anger all combined but she was finally scooped up by a neighbor about 3 miles from home. Try and stay positive, thoughts with you

 

[Bruinaura]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

hope you find him!

 

[Chief Nine]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

Good luck, I’m hoping for the best for you and you family (which always includes pets)

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Again, at surface level, it's awful and I completely agree with you.

Given we do not know anything about the company or what the role is, it's really hard to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

At worst, it's an awful thing and an awful company.

At best, it may be legitimate but executed incredibly poorly.

I think most of us without an HR background are having a really, REALLY tough time seeing literally any legitimacy in this. Which is why I asked for the HR perspective. Even having heard your responses, I'm not sure it would be legitimate in any possible way, unless the employee's personal car is to be used for client transport or interaction, which according to the tweet, it wasn't - it was literally the car s/he drove to work and parked in the garage.

The message in the email was "you make enough money to but a new car, we expect you to buy a new car", which I find incredibly difficult to see any possible way that as appropriate.

 

[Alicat]

My iPad suddenly stopped charging when plugged into the wall last night. It charges on my laptop and portable charger which is odd. Since I bought it through Verizon and have the total equipment policy I decided to take it to the store to see what it would cost to fix.

Lucky for me the plan covers power failure so they told me they’d send me a new one to arrive tomorrow and then I’d send the broken one back. Since my current model is discontinued (512mb 10.5’’) I ended up with a brand new iPad Pro 11” with 1TB of memory. Pretty sweet.

My only gripe is that with the new iPads the chargers not only changed to what androids use but no longer come with the device. Thank god for the 10% discount on accessories because $28 for a damn cord is rough.

That extra $12/month for the protection plan however, is so worth it.

 

[Kate08]

I think most of us without an HR background are having a really, REALLY tough time seeing literally any legitimacy in this. Which is why I asked for the HR perspective. Even having heard your responses, I'm not sure it would be legitimate in any possible way, unless the employee's personal car is to be used for client transport or interaction, which according to the tweet, it wasn't - it was literally the car s/he drove to work and parked in the garage.

The message in the email was "you make enough money to but a new car, we expect you to buy a new car", which I find incredibly difficult to see any possible way that as appropriate.

There are ways it could be legitimate and executed poorly. We don't know who sent the tweet or what their relation is to the person that supposedly received the email. We don't know if the email has been doctored at all. We don't know if it's actually a disgruntled ex-employee trying to stir up trouble (although with the name of the company redacted, it's doubtful).

And I'm telling you, as someone with an HR background, there are often more pieces to the story than exist at surface. I don't expect your professional training to make you think like I do, but I've been asked and explained why I think there may be scenarios that it's not as terrible and horrible as it's presented as. Is it likely terrible and horrible? Sure. Is it 100% certain it is? No - it could very well be legitimate and, as I stated, executed incredibly poorly.

 

[BMC]

If my smart TV was really smart, it would be able to rewind to the part of the show where I fell asleep.

For God's sake don't give the techies any ideas, TVs & other devices are creepy enough these days.

 

[BMC]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

I hope he comes home soon. Such a handsome boy!

 

[BMC]

I think most of us without an HR background are having a really, REALLY tough time seeing literally any legitimacy in this. Which is why I asked for the HR perspective. Even having heard your responses, I'm not sure it would be legitimate in any possible way, unless the employee's personal car is to be used for client transport or interaction, which according to the tweet, it wasn't - it was literally the car s/he drove to work and parked in the garage.

The message in the email was "you make enough money to but a new car, we expect you to buy a new car", which I find incredibly difficult to see any possible way that as appropriate.

The employer can go shit in his/her hat- what an employee drives is no concern of theirs. The employee may be paying off student loans, a mortgage or putting more money in their retirement account instead of spending on a new car. Either way I'd advise this person to find a job somewhere else as the employer is way out of line.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

There are ways it could be legitimate and executed poorly. We don't know who sent the tweet or what their relation is to the person that supposedly received the email. We don't know if the email has been doctored at all. We don't know if it's actually a disgruntled ex-employee trying to stir up trouble (although with the name of the company redacted, it's doubtful).

And I'm telling you, as someone with an HR background, there are often more pieces to the story than exist at surface. I don't expect your professional training to make you think like I do, but I've been asked and explained why I think there may be scenarios that it's not as terrible and horrible as it's presented as. Is it likely terrible and horrible? Sure. Is it 100% certain it is? No - it could very well be legitimate and, as I stated, executed incredibly poorly.

You're right, I don't have the training to know all the different possibilities, but I still don't see any where this should be acceptable, so I guess a better follow up would be - in what scenarios could this be a legitimate request? I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Kate08]

You're right, I don't have the training to know all the different possibilities, but I still don't see any where this should be acceptable, so I guess a better follow up would be - in what scenarios could this be a legitimate request? I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm genuinely curious.

As I've already stated, there are many factors we don't know that could make this less egregious than it is on the surface.

- What is the job?
- What industry is the company in?
- Where is it located?
- Is keeping a certain "appearance" a requirement of employment?
- Are there any policies or procedures that indicate what kind of financial health someone must be in to work at this company?
- Is this a contract or permanent position?
- Does the company provide stipends to employees intended for public appearance upkeep?
- Is the person in a high level position with significant financial oversight?
- Is, or has the company in the past, had any kind of fraud or embezzlement?
- Did other employees receive similar letters?
- Does this employee have any warnings on file for issues related to appearance or concerns about theft/fraud?

Again, I'm not saying this is good practice in any way even if it WAS a legitimate ask. But you simply can't take this stuff at surface value and expect to understand the whole story.

 

[Kate08]

Tammy Toyota is working at Beautiful People, Inc, located in Los Angeles as a personal concierge. Tammy took the job because she is an aspiring actress who is hoping to make connections in the industry to land a role on a TV Sitcom.

As part of the hiring process, Tammy had to go through an extensive background check including criminal history, driving record, credit report, social media search, employment and educational verification. Tammy passed all of the background checks and was offered the position. Her offer package included a weekly salary, health benefits, paid time off, and a monthly allowance for hair/clothes/nails/personal upkeep. Because of the industry Beautiful People, Inc is in, it is a condition of employment to look put together and represent the company - and company's clients - as nothing short of professional and polished. The company has a strict personal appearance policy that is made clear at the time of hire, and a robust written policy that each employee signs off on during orientation. Tammy Toyota signed this on her first day of work, and a signed copy of the policy is in her personnel file along with non-disclosure and confidentiality agreements.

When Tammy started, she was driving a silver Audi SUV, was wearing the latest fashion, had weekly blow-outs and perfectly manicured nails. She was taking on new clients, and performing new and more personal duties for her people. After about 6 months, Tammy started showing up to work with unmanicured nails, roots starting to show, and she was clearly repeating her outfits. Her once polished Loubiton heels were scuffed, and her leather Tory Burch bag handle was clearly cracking. Her Audi SUV was all of a sudden "in the shop", and for another month, she was showing up to work in an old rundown Toyota Corolla. Her demeanor shifted, she looked tired all the time, and something was clearly going on with her. She was receiving a decent salary in addition to the monthly allowance, but she wasn't meeting the personal appearance policy that she had signed off on.

Tammy's boss didn't know what to do, as she had never seen an employee go so quickly from being the picture of glamour to a bit of a mess. Simultaneously, Tammy's boss got a call from one of Tammy's clients, Big Shot Bill, who noticed some strange withdrawals from a checking account that Tammy had access to. Tammy's boss approached leadership to ask what to do. They had never been faced with this before, and didn't want to outright ask Tammy if she was stealing, or tell her that she looks like a hot mess - that's so rude! Instead, they decided to send her a letter about her car, and use that as their "in" to see if maybe Tammy was having some financial troubles. They figured once they sent that letter, Tammy would come clean. It was a perfect plan!

/scene

Companies are dumb sometimes. In this case, it wasn't handled well, but it was a fair question.

 

[Kate08]

In case you were wondering...

Tammy had developed a gambling problem. She had a bookie she needed to pay, and to help, she started selling off all of her fancy clothes, shoes and bags, and eventually her car. All of her personal appearance stipend went to the bookie, but it wasn't enough. She also was skimming some money from one of her client's accounts as she went around doing errands for him. When she was confronted, she was furious and decided to go public with the email she received asking about the state of her car and if she was having financial issues. Without the backstory, it seems like a completely ridiculous invasion of privacy from an employer - maybe she'd go viral, and someone would set up one of those GoFundMe's like they just did for Target Tori!

 

[Glove Malfunction]

In case you were wondering...

Tammy had developed a gambling problem. She had a bookie she needed to pay, and to help, she started selling off all of her fancy clothes, shoes and bags, and eventually her car. All of her personal appearance stipend went to the bookie, but it wasn't enough. She also was skimming some money from one of her client's accounts as she went around doing errands for him. When she was confronted, she was furious and decided to go public with the email she received asking about the state of her car and if she was having financial issues. Without the backstory, it seems like a completely ridiculous invasion of privacy from an employer - maybe she'd go viral, and someone would set up one of those GoFundMe's like they just did for Target Tori!

Thanks for the case, Kate. I can now see certain situations where this might be a possible issue. I know I'm making inferences based on what was shared with the twitter picture, but this doesn't seem to fall into one of those. But, based on your hypothetical HR person's thought process, I can see how someone might think this an "innocuous" way of opening a discussion about the employee's financial situation. Wrong-headed, but I can see how someone might think it a way to open the door.

Where it goes off the rails for me, is where they direct the employees to "address the situation as soon as possible", basically telling him to buy a new car. In the article you posted (I'm guessing, in direct response to this viral story), it was noted that it was not illegal, just a really dumb idea. That they went to this step, tells me they are not interested in discussing finances, but simply want the employee to drive a better car.

In any event, appreciate your professional take on it. I hope answering a question on a message board is the closest you ever have to come to dealing with something like this in real life!

 

[sooshii]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

Good luck Mission! Have you posted on your local Facebook missing pets/community groups?

keeping a good thought for his safe return.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

My cat got out Sunday night and we still have not found him. So depressed, he was with us for 14 years. He slipped out when my dog went outside, we did not realize he was gone til the next morning. We are all heart broken here.

Here's to hoping for a safe return of your kitty, sooner rather than later!