Speculation: Off Season Thread Part II: Wake me up when September ends

[predfan24]

My defense of Joey is when the stakes are he highest he has shown he elevates his game. Was his regular season production acceptable for a guy who signed a 8/64 deal? Absolutely not. But at some point I think you have to accept Joey is who Joey is. There have been plenty of rumors throughout his career of being out of shape and questioning his desire. I heard Hartnell say before one of the first games in the 17-18 season his goal was to motivate Joey and keep him engaged.

This upcoming season is going to be Joey's eighth. I can hold out hope that he will magically turn into a player who brings the intensity of Arvy every game but at what point do we accept he is who he is?

Personally, I want to see him raise his regular season production to validate his contract BUT as long as he continues to bring it when the playoffs roll around I'm okay with disappointing regular seasons. The moment he brings the same effort issues from the regular season to the playoffs I will probably change my tune quickly.

 

[Gh24]

Was it just our desire to lock a #1C or why would Poile give him a deal like that if he was out of shape and unmotivated on a higher scale? I hope some of you guys don't misjudge him for his slow appearance (long strides and that look he has on his face 24/7). I'm not so sure it's all motivation, but doing the right things. Getting results feeds your game and he needs to be more selfish on some areas of his game and more aggressive on others. Mainly more selfish on scoring chances and more aggressive on loose pucks.

I hope I'm right and it's just fixing few things here and there and that he gets most out of his skillset from now on and through that find that another gear we all seem to know he has.

 

[glenngineer]

I was bored and just looking around at the numbers and this was interesting to me:

Kyle Turris 82 game pace on Nashville: 16 G, 53 points.

Ryan Johansen scored 15 G, 54 points (missed 3 games)

Now I know Johansen always steps up in the playoffs and Turris was awful in the postseason last year, but boy was Johansen disappointing in the regular season. Johansen had more even strength ice time and much more PP time and of course, his linemates were also much better, but he basically produced the same as Turris. Here's hoping the rest of that 8×8 deal plays out a bit better.

You also forget he was coming off an injury where it was muscle related and couldn't train for two months after the surgery right?

 

[Predigree]

I know you all think am stupid. Ellis for Weber.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I know you all think am stupid. Ellis for Weber.

Not going to say stupid, but why?

 

[Legionnaire11]

Weber is out until at least December, and who knows what condition he is in or how long he holds up when he can finally play again.

One full season of prime Ellis is probably worth more than whatever Weber would bring over the remainder of his contract.

However if it's clear that Ellis won't be signing an extension here, and it's clear on the Habs end that Weber won't be contributing any longer, then sure flip Ellis' rights for Weber's crippled body so we can LTIR him.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I know you all think am stupid. Ellis for Weber.

Maybe we could expose Weber in the expansion draft and Seattle wouldn't even want him?

I would like even a degraded version of Weber back as a bigger, meaner, still very good RD in place of Ellis. The main issue of course is the term and cap hit for what you get from him the rest of the way. 8 more years left... at least it would put him back under our sphere of influence for those retirement/recapture years. I would love to see him hoist the Cup with the Preds.

I think I would do it, but fully understanding it is risky, foolish, and purely anchored in sentimentality.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

You also forget he was coming off an injury where it was muscle related and couldn't train for two months after the surgery right?

No, I'm aware of that. He was ready in plenty of time to train up for the season and by all accounts he was fine at the start of the season. If I recall correctly, he started skating in June or very early July after the surgery. And let's be honest, I'd be pretty damn surprised if Johansen didn't take at month or two off from training every offseason.

I mean, Poile used that same excuse for him the season he was acquired. Said that he was injured and didn't get a healthy offseason, he'd be much better next year. He had 14 goals and 61 points that next season playing all 82 games with massive ice time and PP time. I'm glad he steps his play up in the postseason, that's the most important time of the year, just wish the Preds weren't paying 8 million for a good 2C during the regular season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Was it just our desire to lock a #1C or why would Poile give him a deal like that if he was out of shape and unmotivated on a higher scale? I hope some of you guys don't misjudge him for his slow appearance (long strides and that look he has on his face 24/7). I'm not so sure it's all motivation, but doing the right things. Getting results feeds your game and he needs to be more selfish on some areas of his game and more aggressive on others. Mainly more selfish on scoring chances and more aggressive on loose pucks.

I hope I'm right and it's just fixing few things here and there and that he gets most out of his skillset from now on and through that find that another gear we all seem to know he has.

Filip Forsberg has also only ever scored a max 64 pts and 33 goals. Am I foolish to think that both he and RyJo have "bigger" seasons in them? I look at them on the ice, relative to NHL comparables, and how they both elevated in the playoffs, and I don't see why Forsberg couldn't get 40 goals and 80 pts, likewise RyJo as a ppg player. (Forsberg practically was last season anyway aside from injury). But I think even in today's lower-scoring era, these guys still have room to post bigger numbers and gain a little more notoriety league-wide than they have to date.

And say, 2018-19 would be a great time for that to happen.

 

[Viqsi]

I know you all think am stupid. Ellis for Weber.

no
no
nononononononononononononono
nooooooo
no no no
no
no
nonononononono
hell no
absolutely no
totally no
**** no
no
no
no
no
no no no no no no no no no no no

 

[Scoresberg]

I think the way our team is built affects the scoring of forwards, especially centers. You look at Joey's production in Columbus, 33 goal and a 71 point seasons under his belt. We rely so much on our defense to bring the scoring and we sure as heck aren't a one line team offensively, we rely heavily on depth upfront. What I'm saying is, if you'd bring a better center to be our 1C I don't know if he'd score a lot more than Joey in the regular season.

Give me 60-65p Joey in the regular season and a PPG Joey in the playoffs and I'll sleep my nights just fine knowing that we pay him $8M a year.

 

[Armourboy]

No, I'm aware of that. He was ready in plenty of time to train up for the season and by all accounts he was fine at the start of the season. If I recall correctly, he started skating in June or very early July after the surgery. And let's be honest, I'd be pretty damn surprised if Johansen didn't take at month or two off from training every offseason.

I mean, Poile used that same excuse for him the season he was acquired. Said that he was injured and didn't get a healthy offseason, he'd be much better next year. He had 14 goals and 61 points that next season playing all 82 games with massive ice time and PP time. I'm glad he steps his play up in the postseason, that's the most important time of the year, just wish the Preds weren't paying 8 million for a good 2C during the regular season.

Just because you start skating doesn't mean you are anywhere near 100% nor really ready to go. Sometimes you get lucky and have surgery and it all goes well and there is no hangover, but sometimes those things really take a while to start feeling right. That doesn't even factor in the mental part of it where you aren't trying to be careful, worried it will get injured again. I'm sure it took a bit for him to get out there and feel confident everything was going to be fine.

Now that doesn't mean he doesn't need to work on some parts of his game. He does need to shoot more and he does need to be a bit more selfish. He definitely could push harder, but then does he have that next level he seems to hit in the playoffs if he does that? Hard to say on stuff like that.

I think in the end though we may need to be happy with a guy who might get 20g in a season because I have a really strange feeling the longer he has been in the league the more he has found to enjoy being the guy that sets everyone else up and watching them celebrate. The thing is I think all 3 of those guys on JOFA love seeing the other 2 score, so I'm kind of hoping Joey grabs on to that and lets it fly a bit more often.

 

[PredsV82]

Huuurrrrrry October

 

[GoldOnGold]

I think the way our team is built affects the scoring of forwards, especially centers. You look at Joey's production in Columbus, 33 goal and a 71 point seasons under his belt. We rely so much on our defense to bring the scoring and we sure as heck aren't a one line team offensively, we rely heavily on depth upfront. What I'm saying is, if you'd bring a better center to be our 1C I don't know if he'd score a lot more than Joey in the regular season.

Give me 60-65p Joey in the regular season and a PPG Joey in the playoffs and I'll sleep my nights just fine knowing that we pay him $8M a year.

Turris wasn't really disadvantaged, he scored at .67 PPG in Ottawa and had .65 PPG here last season.

 

[FossilFndr]

no
no nooooooo...... no

Though I think I agree could you elaborate?

 

[Viqsi]

Though I think I agree could you elaborate?

so very no
no
no
no
even more no
no
nope
nein
nonononononononononononononononononono



...okay, for real this time. Part of it is that the Human Rocket Ship is far and away my favorite Pred, but the big thing is that arguably our worst-case scenario for keeping Ellis would involve giving him a contract that's just as hefty as Weber's is. And he's younger. And works really well with Josi.

The only benefits to trading for Weber are avoiding a potential cap recapture penalty that we frankly will probably be able to bargain our way out of anyways, and shutting up those few holdouts who still haven't gotten over the Subban trade (and most of those guys have come around, what with that whole SCF trip and President's Trophy and other such shinies). That's not nearly enough.

 

[PredsV82]

Though I think I agree could you elaborate?

Come on.. Weber is one of my all time favorite players, but he is very nearly Old and Busted. Taking him back at a 7.8 million dollar cap hit for 8 more years would be ridiculously dumb, even if it didnt cost us Ellis

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris wasn't really disadvantaged, he scored at .67 PPG in Ottawa and had .65 PPG here last season.

An example of stats not really telling the whole story. Turris did score very well at first, and really got us excited about the trade. And then he vanished. *Poof*. No more Turris. Last maybe what 20 games of the regular season? And then the WHOLE playoffs. The .65 ppg means pretty much sweet FA compared to that.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

no
no
nononononononononononononono
nooooooo
no no no
no
no
nonononononono
hell no
absolutely no
totally no
**** no
no
no
no
no
no no no no no no no no no no no

I liked it on artistic merit. But am still sentimental enough to actually want Weber back. :S

 

[Viqsi]

I liked it on artistic merit. But am still sentimental enough to actually want Weber back. :S

The "Weber back" part isn't the reason I object.

 

[GoldOnGold]

An example of stats not really telling the whole story. Turris did score very well at first, and really got us excited about the trade. And then he vanished. *Poof*. No more Turris. Last maybe what 20 games of the regular season? And then the WHOLE playoffs. The .65 ppg means pretty much sweet FA compared to that.

Turris had 17 points in the last 20 games of the regular season, which people seem to forget.

When he vanished was the middle of the year

Turris with the Preds last year:

1st 17 games: 4g, 13a, 17p

Next 24 games: 2g, 3a, 5 p

Final 24 games: 7g, 13a, 20p

Edit: I forgot to add the playoffs.

13 playoff games: 0g, 3a, 3p

 

[GoldOnGold]

The Predators drafted forward Jimmy Vesey, now of the New York Rangers, in the third round (No. 66) of the 2012 NHL Draft and ultimately lost him to free agency in 2016 after he completed four seasons at Harvard University. They don't want to let that situation affect how they approach players they've drafted who choose to play college hockey before moving to the NHL.

"I think that that was probably an exceptional situation," assistant general manager and director of scouting Jeff Kealty said. "I think that we're always confident. We're always going to try to do the right thing for the player development-wise, timing-wise, what's best for them. I think in general we're confident with the relationships we have with these players where they'll want to come to us."

Mismash hopes to bring physical style to Predators after college

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris had 17 points in the last 20 games of the regular season, which people seem to forget.

When he vanished was the middle of the year

Turris with the Preds last year:

1st 17 games: 4g, 13a, 17p

Next 24 games: 2g, 3a, 5 p

Final 24 games: 7g, 13a, 20p

Edit: I forgot to add the playoffs.

13 playoff games: 0g, 3a, 3p

Huh. Somewhere along the line I mentally switched the middle and ending segments, and have just stuck with that story. Well, either way he disappointed and worried me. It's actually kind of cool that our team had so many "disappointments" (mild-ish ones mind you, not really serious ones), quite a few key players who looked like they could have done more or been more consistent... and still won the President's Trophy.

If they really all could do more or be more consistent and fire on more cylinders more often... well yikes. That ought to bode well for us!

 

[GoldOnGold]

Huh. Somewhere along the line I mentally switched the middle and ending segments, and have just stuck with that story. Well, either way he disappointed and worried me. It's actually kind of cool that our team had so many "disappointments" (mild-ish ones mind you, not really serious ones), quite a few key players who looked like they could have done more or been more consistent... and still won the President's Trophy.

If they really all could do more or be more consistent and fire on more cylinders more often... well yikes. That ought to bode well for us!

I agree, but with guys like Turris who get ~50 points over the course of the regular season, it's to be expected they'll be hot some parts of the year and cold other times. Turris isn't the guy who was nearly PPG for a lot of last season, but he also isn't the guy who was scoring at a 17-point pace for a third of the season.

I feel the same way about our playoff performance- even with scoring drying up after JOFA, and Rinne becoming shaky multiple times, and Ellis and Josi being terrible, we still managed to get to a Game 7.

 

[Softball99]

Ellis for Panarin straight up