Speculation: Off-Season Roster Building/Line Combos Thread

geehaad

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I have a sneaking suspicion Rask is going to have more of an impact on the roster than we’re giving him credit for. I’m not going to say his injured shoulder was cause for last years regression, but he very well could step back into the place he held the season before.

Equally unclear is whether he will put out the kind of visible effort Brind’Amour wants to see, though I would have thought Rask would have been traded already if that were an issue.
 

emptyNedder

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If we did that trade:

RNH - Aho - TT
Ferland - Necas - Svechnikov
Zykov - Staal - Williams
McGinn - Martinook - Foegele

I don't get putting the least defensively responsible forward with the rookies. Aho and TT both play a two-way game even though they are not physical, so Zykov adds net-front offense without giving up defense. But I worry that Ferland (based on what I have read on Flames' sites) is average defensively. That would seem to put pressure on Necas/Svech. RNH is above-average defensively so he should make Necas' life easier.
 

bleedgreen

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I have a sneaking suspicion Rask is going to have more of an impact on the roster than we’re giving him credit for. I’m not going to say his injured shoulder was cause for last years regression, but he very well could step back into the place he held the season before.

Equally unclear is whether he will put out the kind of visible effort Brind’Amour wants to see, though I would have thought Rask would have been traded already if that were an issue.
Rumor was they offered him to Montreal for two second rounders and Bergevin balked. When they were talking culture change and guys have to play harder and all that jazz Rask was my number one guy to move out. I think he can come back too, but something about him doesn’t seem to jive with our new direction and we were so much quicker when he was out.

I’m surprised he’s still here. Hopefully he makes the most of it. Now that I’ve seen us without him l, if he isn’t the near 50 pt guy he was I’m not as sure I’d fight to keep him.
 

emptyNedder

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The one thing I don't necessarily see is Rask getting much power play time. I think these are the two best forward lineups:
Aho/Teravainen/Svechnikov/Staal (Staal is on there to win draws)
Williams/Necas/Zykov/McGinn (I really think McGinn's energy and shot are an improvement over Rask, though you don't have a great face-off option).

The first unit could end up being much better than last season with Svech's shooting, passing, crashing the net. The first unit gets the added benefit of Hamilton's shot from the point.
 

geehaad

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Rumor was they offered him to Montreal for two second rounders and Bergevin balked. When they were talking culture change and guys have to play harder and all that jazz Rask was my number one guy to move out. I think he can come back too, but something about him doesn’t seem to jive with our new direction and we were so much quicker when he was out.

I’m surprised he’s still here. Hopefully he makes the most of it. Now that I’ve seen us without him l, if he isn’t the near 50 pt guy he was I’m not as sure I’d fight to keep him.
Agreed on all fronts. One might think that if management really didn't care for him, two 2nds would be an easy place to negotiate from (how about a 2nd and a 3rd? No. How about a 2nd and a 4th? etc). If that deal just up and died at two 2nds, maybe they didn't want to be rid of him as much as you or I would've believed.
 
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geehaad

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The one thing I don't necessarily see is Rask getting much power play time. I think these are the two best forward lineups:
Aho/Teravainen/Svechnikov/Staal (Staal is on there to win draws)
Williams/Necas/Zykov/McGinn (I really think McGinn's energy and shot are an improvement over Rask, though you don't have a great face-off option).
I think you disagreed with yourself, there, in that you don't really have a solid answer for the PP that absolutely excludes Rask (concerns over faceoffs). Sure, he may not pass mustard, and that would shock very few of us, but if he can return to 2016-2017 form, I'm sure he'd at least be considered for the 2nd unit.

Another factor is that so many of these guys are unproven: Staal, Necas, Svechnikov, McGinn, Ferland...maybe others like Williams and Zykov. The only guys I think we wouldn't debate are Hamilton, Aho, and TT...it's possible for the rest to be beat out by a player who is playing at a 20/20 level.
 

NotOpie

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The one thing I don't necessarily see is Rask getting much power play time. I think these are the two best forward lineups:
Aho/Teravainen/Svechnikov/Staal (Staal is on there to win draws)
Williams/Necas/Zykov/McGinn (I really think McGinn's energy and shot are an improvement over Rask, though you don't have a great face-off option).

The first unit could end up being much better than last season with Svech's shooting, passing, crashing the net. The first unit gets the added benefit of Hamilton's shot from the point.

I disagree. Rask has got a very good shot, wins faceoffs, and is an underrated passer. He adds an important dimension to the 2nd unit. I'd be shocked if he wasn't on it.

Agreed on all fronts. One might think that if management really didn't care for him, two 2nds would be an easy place to negotiate from (how about a 2nd and a 3rd? No. How about a 2nd and a 4th? etc). If that deal just up and died and two 2nds, maybe they didn't want to be rid of him as much as you or I would've believed.
My guess is that there were guys in the 2nd round of this past draft that they really wanted and if they didn't get the picks then they weren't that keen on trading Victor. Much like Faulk, I think he's going to have a bounce back year.
 

Ole Gil

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Rumor was they offered him to Montreal for two second rounders and Bergevin balked. When they were talking culture change and guys have to play harder and all that jazz Rask was my number one guy to move out. I think he can come back too, but something about him doesn’t seem to jive with our new direction and we were so much quicker when he was out.

I’m surprised he’s still here. Hopefully he makes the most of it. Now that I’ve seen us without him l, if he isn’t the near 50 pt guy he was I’m not as sure I’d fight to keep him.

I'm always suspicious when people get labeled as not playing hard, when they have a really good defensive season. As invisible as Rask was offensively, the other team wasn't scoring when he was on the ice either. That's a hard thing to manage without playing hard.
 

MinJaBen

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I'm always suspicious when people get labeled as not playing hard, when they have a really good defensive season. As invisible as Rask was offensively, the other team wasn't scoring when he was on the ice either. That's a hard thing to manage without playing hard.
I never thought Rask didn't play hard. Slow, yes. Coasting, no.
 

emptyNedder

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As far as Rask on the power play--he played approximately 148 minutes of power play in 17-18 with 4 goals and 7 assists. McGinn played 23 1/2 minutes with 2 goals 1 assist. So they are about equal in assists with a big advantage to McGinn in goals. I think Williams has to be on the 2nd unit. So the options seem to be Rask instead of Zykov or Necas. Canes fans (also John and Tripp) have clamored for a net front presence on the power play so Zykov seems a lock. That leaves Rask instead of Necas, which means not giving the prize rookie the best chances to score.

Unlike many, I don't think Rask was horrendous last season. And I agree that Rask is likely to have a better year this season. But the only spot I can see him on the power play is instead of Staal. That actually seems like a wash. Otherwise, the three rookies and McGinn all need to be given the opportunity to help improve what was a real weakness last season.
 
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geehaad

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the only spot I can see [Rask] on the power play is instead of Staal.
The key to this is to figure out who slots in what position on each PP unit, and who would be the backup for that position.

#1 PP
Net-front: Staal (Zykov, Ferland?)
Weak-side halfwall: Aho (TT)
Strong-side halfwall: Svechnikov (Aho)
Left point: Hamilton (Faulk, Slavin)
Right point: TT (Svechnikov?)

#2 PP
Net-front: Zykov (Ferland? McGinn?)
Weak-side halfwall: Williams (Necas)
Strong-side halfwall: Ferland? (Rask? Maenalanen?)
Left point: Faulk (Hamilton, Slavin)
Right point: Rask (Slavin?)

With each, if they want to form an umbrella instead, the group simply rotates clockwise and each player is well-suited for that new position/role.

Bottom line: I don't see how anyone can look at the #2 PP unit and claim Rask is not in the conversation as much as anyone else.
 
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Joe McGrath

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I don’t understand why people don’t want Rask on the PP. Its probably his best value at this point. His biggest weakness is his speed which you don’t need on the PP. He can win a face-off and he has an as good better shot than TT and actually takes a better one-timer than Skinner ever has.

Since he joined the team only Faulk and Lindholm has more PP points than him and Rask had 12 more than Skinner in less games. In fact over 30% of his NHL points have come on the PP.

Even last year, in a complete crap year shortened by injury he had 1 less point than Staal and 2 more than Lindholm and Skinner on the PP.
 

Anton Dubinchuk

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I don’t understand why people don’t want Rask on the PP. Its probably his best value at this point. His biggest weakness is his speed which you don’t need on the PP. He can win a face-off and he has an as good better shot than TT and actually takes a better one-timer than Skinner ever has.

Since he joined the team only Faulk and Lindholm has more PP points than him and Rask had 12 more than Skinner in less games. In fact over 30% of his NHL points have come on the PP.

Even last year, in a complete crap year shortened by injury he had 1 less point than Staal and 2 more than Lindholm and Skinner on the PP.

Additionally, PP would be great for artificially pumping his counting stats for an eventual trade, if he continues being bad 5v5.
 

Joe McGrath

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Additionally, PP would be great for artificially pumping his counting stats for an eventual trade, if he continues being bad 5v5.

I mean that pumps up his value on the trade board, but I have a hard time believing that would sway an actual NHL front office and their scouts. Unless they were specifically looking at him as a PP specialist.
 
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emptyNedder

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I don’t understand why people don’t want Rask on the PP

Neve said I don't want Rask on PP. Just made the point that the best options to improve PP scoring are in order: Svechnikov, Zykov, Necas, McGinn. Add those four to Aho, Teravainen, Staal, and Williams. It appears that Rask is odd man.

Most of the folks here liked the article that lists the Canes as having 3 candidates for Calder. Be honest, does any forward stand a chance without power play time. I understand that none of Svech, Necas, Zykov have earned a spot. But based on hype, it sure seems they will get time. The statistics indicate that McGinn might improve the power play.

Maybe RBA will take a page out of the Finns' playbook and use 5 forwards. That might work pretty well.

I agree Rask will have a bounce back year. But we all know the first time the power play goes five straight opportunities without scoring if Necas or Zykov is on the bench folks will be second-guessing why Rask is on the unit.
 

Moosetache

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Just to see Bob Mack tweet "Edm has inquired recently about Faulk but have been rebuffed with their underwhelming offer of RNH....", and watch a couple of Oiler fans literally explode.

If Faulk starts out hot on the score sheet, I will definitely change my twitter name and post that then link it to the Trade page on the main forum. Sit back with a cocktail and ENJOOOOOY
 

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