Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt V: Spring(er) has Sprung: Jays sign OF George Springer (6y/$150m)

[ShaneFalco]

[QUOTE="Gargyn, post: 175284902, member: 43953"]I believe BlueForever has insider information. I enjoy hearing what he has to say. If you don’t, use the ignore button. No need to ridicule him.[/QUOTE]

Good for you, others don't. And when one proclaims to have "insider information" and are proven to be a fraud,they're going to get called it for it. And it happens too often
This place shouldn't be hockeybuzz

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Some reactions in the comments.

I know a lot people here would like him, but man do I hate the idea of throwing $100 million at a 30 year old catcher. It'll be great for a few years but it'll be real ugly come year 3 or 4. I know people here dont care about those later years but it's not like this team has a 1-2 year window.

 

[Bluelines]

You'd be wrong. And Jansen is a good defensive catcher, I'd rather leave this offseason with

Bauer+Tanaka/Paxton and keeping Jansen

vs

Realmuto + whoever we acquire trading Jansen (hint...it won't be as good as Bauer)

When you're building a championship team, it's important to make sure you have as much talent in the rotation as possible. Gray is a a decent pitcher but you do realize he has terrible numbers against every AL East team except the Jays right? Has a career era over 4 against the Yankees, Rays and O's, and an ERA over 6 against the Red Sox. You only have 5 spots in your rotation, you have an ace (Ryu) and another potential ace (Pearson), go after premium guys like Bauer or Castillo.

I would be wrong about what? I said sign Bauer, you said sign Bauer. I said SP is critical to a WS, you said improve starting pitching.

Pearson got banged around last year, he should be at the bottom of the line up, where he can take his time to find his MLB game.

You'd rather Jansen over Realmuto?

Seems like Paxton has what looks like the beginning of a dead arm, he has always been in the 95+ mph range, last year with the Yanks his fastball dropped to 92.1 mph, pedestrian for a MLB pitcher, terrible for a power pitcher.

Tanaka has reportedly been hiding an elbow injury in his pitching arm, that originally flared up in 2015, this came out right after the end of last season.

You realize A LOT of pitchers have a bad record against the Yanks, Sox and Rays right? Are we playing against just the AL East?

Gray in his last full season (2019) posted a 1.084 WHIP, 175IP/205SO/68Walks/ 2.87 ERA, was an All-Star and finished in 7th in the CY Young voting, this is significantly better than as you put it "decent" , he's a #2 on most roster's, I said play him #3 .

 

[Bluelines]

I know a lot people here would like him, but man do I hate the idea of throwing $100 million at a 30 year old catcher. It'll be great for a few years but it'll be real ugly come year 3 or 4. I know people here dont care about those later years but it's not like this team has a 1-2 year window.

You are not wrong, knee and hip injuries frequently limit the length of catchers careers. The one saving grace is we have a lot of catchers that JT could mentor in the later years of his contract. He plays 1B, could play DH too if Catching becomes an issue.

You are going to like this idea even less, it's rumored that the Phillies offered above $130 mil for him and he is looking or a deal in the $200 mil range

 

[Avilaj07]

I wouldn't invest in getting Realmuto. While he is the best catcher in the game, and it's not even close, this team definitely needs to fill out it's SP. While Bauer is still a wild card considering he's only been phenomenal the last 1.5 years, I think it's a gamble you need to take, especially if you could get him on a shorter deal with 4 years being the max. After Bauer I would either use assets to get Gray, or look at bringing Walker back depending at his price.

Sign Bauer 3 yrs-95 million
Sign Didi 2yrs- 25 million
Trade assets for Gray

C- Jansen/Kirk
1st- Vlad
2nd- Biggio
3rd-Didi
SS- Bichette
LF- Gurriel
CF- Springer
RF- Teo
DH-Grichuk/Tellez

Bauer
Ryu
Gray
Ray
Pearson

Closer-Yates

 

[Man Bear Pig]

You are not wrong, knee and hip injuries frequently limit the length of catchers careers. The one saving grace is we have a lot of catchers that JT could mentor in the later years of his contract. He plays 1B, could play DH too if Catching becomes an issue.

You are going to like this idea even less, it's rumored that the Phillies offered above $130 mil for him and he is looking or a deal in the $200 mil range

Yeah I saw somewhere earlier that he's looking for $200 million which is bonkers given the market. I know some Jays fans like the idea of signing him and trading from our depth at catcher to fill other needs but we're sure as shit out of the running at what he's asking. 5 years $100 million was already too much. I know you could move him to 1b or DH but you can do that with anyone. You definitely don't want to invest in a player where a strength is their defense only to put them at 1B or DH.

 

[Bluelines]

Springer comes in, who goes out? Hernandez, Grichuk or Gurriel?

Hernandez/Gurriel have better bats that Grichuk.
Grichuk/Gurriel have better D than Hernandez.

I think it's easy to say Gurriel stays in the line up. i think based on Hernandez's defence, he is better suited to play DH. Grichuk is crazy streaky, I heard the other day an analyst say, you watch Grichuk one game and he looks like he should be in AA ball, then you watch him the next game and he looks like an elite All Star...super streaky player.

Hernandez - the one thing I enjoy watching the least is when pop fly's are hit to him... you never know if he is going to catch it, boot it or drop it but man can't he ever launch them balls, his power reminds me of Encarnacion.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I wouldn't invest in getting Realmuto. While he is the best catcher in the game, and it's not even close, this team definitely needs to fill out it's SP. While Bauer is still a wild card considering he's only been phenomenal the last 1.5 years, I think it's a gamble you need to take, especially if you could get him on a shorter deal with 4 years being the max. After Bauer I would either use assets to get Gray, or look at bringing Walker back depending at his price.

Sign Bauer 3 yrs-95 million
Sign Didi 2yrs- 25 million
Trade assets for Gray

C- Jansen/Kirk
1st- Vlad
2nd- Biggio
3rd-Didi
SS- Bichette
LF- Gurriel
CF- Springer
RF- Teo
DH-Grichuk/Tellez

Bauer
Ryu
Gray
Ray
Pearson

Closer-Yates

I realise I'm on fantasy island here with this thought but if you cant get Bauer, throw money at Tanaka, Walker and Paxton. If you get all 3 you've given yourself a good shot at a bounceback season from either Tanaka or Paxton, and Walker would be an excellent #4. I don't know why we haven't brought back Walker already, the guy loves it here and we definitely need starters.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Springer comes in, who goes out? Hernandez, Grichuk or Gurriel?

Hernandez/Gurriel have better bats that Grichuk.
Grichuk/Gurriel have better D than Hernandez.

I think it's easy to say Gurriel stays in the line up. i think based on Hernandez's defence, he is better suited to play DH. Grichuk is crazy streaky, I heard the other day an analyst say, you watch Grichuk one game and he looks like he should be in AA ball, then you watch him the next game and he looks like an elite All Star...super streaky player.

Hernandez - the one thing I enjoy watching the least is when pop fly's are hit to him... you never know if he is going to catch it, boot it or drop it but man can't he ever launch them balls, his power reminds me of Encarnacion.

I think Hernandez has made significant strides at bettering his defense and has a canon of an arm. But I agree with your overall assessment. I would love to trade grichuk based mostly on his contract and focus on acquiring some sp. This team is starting to look legitimate as long as the youngsters continue to take positive strides, which I fully expect they will

 

[Bluelines]

I wouldn't invest in getting Realmuto. While he is the best catcher in the game, and it's not even close, this team definitely needs to fill out it's SP. While Bauer is still a wild card considering he's only been phenomenal the last 1.5 years, I think it's a gamble you need to take, especially if you could get him on a shorter deal with 4 years being the max. After Bauer I would either use assets to get Gray, or look at bringing Walker back depending at his price.

Sign Bauer 3 yrs-95 million
Sign Didi 2yrs- 25 million
Trade assets for Gray

C- Jansen/Kirk
1st- Vlad
2nd- Biggio
3rd-Didi
SS- Bichette
LF- Gurriel
CF- Springer
RF- Teo
DH-Grichuk/Tellez

Bauer
Ryu
Gray
Ray
Pearson

Closer-Yates

Filthy SP line up, I love it! The batting line up is still at best 3rd in the AL East, we need to improve it by 2 hitters. Hopefully some of those guys will just see a progressing in their learning curve. Vald needs to be much better, Grichuk needs to be more consistent, Jansen has to improve considerably at the plate, you cant have an easy out in your line up, even if you are hitting 9th.

Yates is really interesting to me, where he played in SD I really didn't know much about him. I watched some video on him, man that guy has crazy movement on every pitch.

 

[BlueForever75]

Shi Davidi has reported Didi is a possible INF acquisition through FA. In line with what I said not too long before.

Spoke to my source this morning, one of the meetings yesterday was a lengthy conversation with Didi and his agents. Im being told Didi is a huge fan of Montoyo who was also included in the call.

The front office along with Montoyo also had 2 other calls yesterday. But my source couldnt confirm with whom. Only that one of the calls was scheduled from 3:30-4:30 and the call went almost until 6pm last night.

 

[Bluelines]

I realise I'm on fantasy island here with this thought but if you cant get Bauer, throw money at Tanaka, Walker and Paxton. If you get all 3 you've given yourself a good shot at a bounceback season from either Tanaka or Paxton, and Walker would be an excellent #4. I don't know why we haven't brought back Walker already, the guy loves it here and we definitely need starters.

Did we sign Shoemaker? WHIP 1.089, 26SO/9BB, 28IP.

His WHIP really jumped out at me...

 

[BAM]

I would be wrong about what? I said sign Bauer, you said sign Bauer. I said SP is critical to a WS, you said improve starting pitching.

Pearson got banged around last year, he should be at the bottom of the line up, where he can take his time to find his MLB game.

You'd rather Jansen over Realmuto?

Seems like Paxton has what looks like the beginning of a dead arm, he has always been in the 95+ mph range, last year with the Yanks his fastball dropped to 92.1 mph, pedestrian for a MLB pitcher, terrible for a power pitcher.

Tanaka has reportedly been hiding an elbow injury in his pitching arm, that originally flared up in 2015, this came out right after the end of last season.

You realize A LOT of pitchers have a bad record against the Yanks, Sox and Rays right? Are we playing against just the AL East?

Gray in his last full season (2019) posted a 1.084 WHIP, 175IP/205SO/68Walks/ 2.87 ERA, was an All-Star and finished in 7th in the CY Young voting, this is significantly better than as you put it "decent" , he's a #2 on most roster's, I said play him #3 .

While there is no cap in baseball, the Jays realistically aren't going over $150 million this offseason and I would be shocked if they maintained a payroll around $200 million during the prime of this group. Jansen is a terrific young catcher that has had some bad luck offensively imo. If he hits like he should he'd be an all-star level catcher making peanuts. Realmuto is a good player but the smarter option would be spending that money on Bauer when you look at cost efficiency. It is true that catcher is one of the most important positions in baseball, but it is also true that it is the sole position other than SS where defence matters far more than offence. Jansen is one of the best defensive catchers in the game, he has that part down already and he's still young. Sign Bauer and trade for Castillo, that should be the move.

When looking at age, future control, cost, and catching ability as an aggregate, Jansen is the better choice for the Jays. If Jansen was only an offensive catcher with bad defence I would agree with you but that's not the case.

And my point was that the Jays as is, are not the 3rd best team in the East. Right now I see the Yankees as favourites with the Jays and Rays battling for 2nd but the gap between the Yankees and the latter two is small. If any of the 3 won the division it wouldn't surprise me.

And their records and performance matters a lot against the AL East considering that they comprise 44% of the Jays schedule annually. Almost half the season is spent facing the teams in the division. Trading for "good" pitchers that have historically struggled in the division they're going into is how you end up with R.A Dickey getting lit up going from the NL East to AL East.

 

[Bluelines]

Shi Davidi has reported Didi is a possible INF acquisition through FA. In line with what I said not too long before.

Spoke to my source this morning, one of the meetings yesterday was a lengthy conversation with Didi and his agents. Im being told Didi is a huge fan of Montoyo who was also included in the call.

The front office along with Montoyo also had 2 other calls yesterday. But my source couldnt confirm with whom. Only that one of the calls was scheduled from 3:30-4:30 and the call went almost until 6pm last night.

I wont jump on you like others but I'm curious, is your source connected with MLB or are they part of the media?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Did we sign Shoemaker? WHIP 1.089, 26SO/9BB, 28IP.

His WHIP really jumped out at me...

He's still a free agent and is toast as far as being a starter.

 

[Bluelines]

While there is no cap in baseball, the Jays realistically aren't going over $150 million this offseason and I would be shocked if they maintained a payroll around $200 million during the prime of this group. Jansen is a terrific young catcher that has had some bad luck offensively imo. If he hits like he should he'd be an all-star level catcher making peanuts. Realmuto is a good player but the smarter option would be spending that money on Bauer when you look at cost efficiency. It is true that catcher is one of the most important positions in baseball, but it is also true that it is the sole position other than SS where defence matters far more than offence. Jansen is one of the best defensive catchers in the game, he has that part down already and he's still young. Sign Bauer and trade for Castillo, that should be the move.

When looking at age, future control, cost, and catching ability as an aggregate, Jansen is the better choice for the Jays. If Jansen was only an offensive catcher with bad defence I would agree with you but that's not the case.

And my point was that the Jays as is, are not the 3rd best team in the East. Right now I see the Yankees as favourites with the Jays and Rays battling for 2nd but the gap between the Yankees and the latter two is small.

And their records and performance matters a lot against the AL East considering that they comprise 44% of the Jays schedule annually. Almost half the season is spent facing the teams in the division. Trading for "good" pitchers that have historically struggled in the division they're going into is how you end up with R.A Dickey getting lit up going from the NL East to AL East.

Appreciate your clarification.

This is just my opinion, the way the Rays easily beat the Jays in the playoffs, it wasn't even close. Adding Springer and minus Shields does not make us that much closer to Rays. I think the rays are still a tier or two above the Jays.

 

[Avilaj07]

Filthy SP line up, I love it! The batting line up is still at best 3rd in the AL East, we need to improve it by 2 hitters. Hopefully some of those guys will just see a progressing in their learning curve. Vald needs to be much better, Grichuk needs to be more consistent, Jansen has to improve considerably at the plate, you cant have an easy out in your line up, even if you are hitting 9th.

Yates is really interesting to me, where he played in SD I really didn't know much about him. I watched some video on him, man that guy has crazy movement on every pitch.

While I agree that we could use some more offense on this team. We also have to put some faith in the kids to develop and continue to get better. Adding Springer automatically gives a huge boost to the offense and if you add Didi, that's a pretty potent offense if Bichette, Vlad and Biggio even get slightly better. That's not even counting Jansen who you hope takes a step forward offensively.

Having 3 potential aces in your rotation is what helps you win when your offense just isn't there sometimes. If I'm Atkins, all my attention now is on the rotation and 3rd base. Getting Didi takes care of 3rd. I've seen some posters suggest Tanaka and Paxton but I personally think that's too much of a gamble. You're putting your faith in 2 guys who have a lot of question marks regarding their health and that's not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

 

[BAM]

Appreciate your clarification.

This is just my opinion, the way the Rays easily beat the Jays in the playoffs, it wasn't even close. Adding Springer and minus Shields does not make us that much closer to Rays. I think the rays are still a tier or two above the Jays.

?

The Rays lost Morton and Snell, arguably their 2 best pitchers. You're severely underestimating the potential of Bo and Vladdy Jr. Bichette looks like an MVP caliber talent and if the Vladdy we saw in winter ball is legit, add another.

 

[Tony Romo]

Latest On Trevor Bauer

From the start of free agency I've never sensed the Jays were as hot after Bauer as some might have hoped. At least not in any way close to the way they went after Springer. I think they may end up going in another direction. Maybe Tanaka + Paxton to take the Yankees legs out from under them?

if the angels don't get him. Mike Trout should demand a trade.

 

[howlman]

Shi Davidi has reported Didi is a possible INF acquisition through FA. In line with what I said not too long before.

Spoke to my source this morning, one of the meetings yesterday was a lengthy conversation with Didi and his agents. Im being told Didi is a huge fan of Montoyo who was also included in the call.

The front office along with Montoyo also had 2 other calls yesterday. But my source couldnt confirm with whom. Only that one of the calls was scheduled from 3:30-4:30 and the call went almost until 6pm last night.

You are playing the part marvelously

Your posts get me fired up

 

[Avilaj07]

Moresi reporting on MLB network that the Jays have had recent discussions with the Cubs regarding Bryant. That would be a huge get and one would assume if that's the case, it'll be a bigger deal including Hendricks as well

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Amadeus]

Moresi reporting on MLB network that the Jays have had recent discussions with the Cubs regarding Bryant. That would be a huge get and one would assume if that's the case, it'll be a bigger deal including Hendricks as well

Not sure how well Hendricks will do in the AL East.

 

[Discoverer]

Moresi reporting on MLB network that the Jays have had recent discussions with the Cubs regarding Bryant. That would be a huge get and one would assume if that's the case, it'll be a bigger deal including Hendricks as well

That's what I would expect too, based on both teams' needs. The Jays could really use both pieces, obviously, but Bryant doesn't have enough value right now to get a good return in a trade. As the face of the Cubs in recent years, I think the team would be hesitant to move him in a pure salary-dump type move, so it makes sense to attach him to someone with solid positive value so they can at least make it look like they got a couple decent pieces back for Bryant.

The Jays could use a left-handed bat, and I really like the idea of going for Semien or Gregorius as the infield addition because they would add flexibility by filling the backup SS spot as well, but Bryant/Hendricks is pretty close to a perfect fit.

 

[BAM]

Not sure how well Hendricks will do in the AL East.

Small sample size but he's done well in the opportunities he's had against the AL East. I think Bryant in the AL East would be a good bounce-back candidate. No clue if the Jays could re-sign him but he's only 29.