Speculation: Off-season Pivot Point: Centers of Attention

Jame

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You know full well that pre-draft vs. post-draft valuation for prospects shifts with the pre-selection value point being higher than post-selection. And it doesn't take into account apparent value loss over time as prospects age, flattening their development curve into more known outcome.

We know Botterill is unlikely to land Cirelli. I'm hoping he's smart enough to not be a traditionalist and waste money or assets on some of the established individuals and instead focuses more on value adds.

I know I got the same reaction to suggesting we should trade #2 overall (Reinhart) for Couturier, age 21, coming off a 39 point season, in a checking role, on a contender team (coincidentally, Cirelli is 21, coming off a 39 point season, in a checking role, on a contender team).
 

dkollidas

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Nov 18, 2010
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Any interest in Andreas Athanasiou?
I know he plays center and wing but he has speed, plays pretty well defensively and seems to be hitting his stride offensively (30g 54pts in 2018).
 

dkollidas

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Of the guys listed here, none really knock my socks off so to speak.

I would even look into getting two of these guys. Potentially something like Bonino & Copp.

Bonino would be a low cost acquisition who only has two years left and could be a good placeholder for a guy like Mittelstadt.

Copp would be a guy who could start here on the wing, or play up if Bonino/Mittelstadt isn’t cutting it. He’d probably cost a bit more, but I think he could be available. Something around a defenseman like McCabe. Or Copp++ so they can get their Trouba replacement in Ristolainen? Just throwing out ideas.

But I think this would be the ideal way to go about solving this issue. Two lower cost options, one of whom can flex to the wing.
 

Mr Orangeshirt

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Dec 12, 2008
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Any interest in Andreas Athanasiou?
I know he plays center and wing but he has speed, plays pretty well defensively and seems to be hitting his stride offensively (30g 54pts in 2018).
Don't know if he'd fit in on the team or not, but I'd love to hear Rayzor try to pronounce his name every broadcast.
 

TehDoak

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Miller is not a regular center.

He's taken over 500 faceoffs last year and 800 the year before that. So while he might not be a "regular" center, he's at least spending sometime there.

If the long term plan is to go with a Eichel-Mittelstadt-Asplund center group, perhaps getting someone like JT Miller and Reinhart to handing center by committee a bit while sheltering Mittelstadt might not be a bad thing.
 

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He's taken over 500 faceoffs last year and 800 the year before that. So while he might not be a "regular" center, he's at least spending sometime there.

If the long term plan is to go with a Eichel-Mittelstadt-Asplund center group, perhaps getting someone like JT Miller and Reinhart to handing center by committee a bit while sheltering Mittelstadt might not be a bad thing.

Miller does take a lot of draws. That is not the same thing as positionally playing center.
 

Chainshot

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Of the guys listed here, none really knock my socks off so to speak.

I would even look into getting two of these guys. Potentially something like Bonino & Copp.

Bonino would be a low cost acquisition who only has two years left and could be a good placeholder for a guy like Mittelstadt.

Copp would be a guy who could start here on the wing, or play up if Bonino/Mittelstadt isn’t cutting it. He’d probably cost a bit more, but I think he could be available. Something around a defenseman like McCabe. Or Copp++ so they can get their Trouba replacement in Ristolainen? Just throwing out ideas.

But I think this would be the ideal way to go about solving this issue. Two lower cost options, one of whom can flex to the wing.

AA just had a great year of 5-on-5 goal scoring. I would be shocked if Yzerman is wheeling him out after that.
 
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WhatTheDuck

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He's taken over 500 faceoffs last year and 800 the year before that. So while he might not be a "regular" center, he's at least spending sometime there.

If the long term plan is to go with a Eichel-Mittelstadt-Asplund center group, perhaps getting someone like JT Miller and Reinhart to handing center by committee a bit while sheltering Mittelstadt might not be a bad thing.

I know people have their differing opinions about his contract (personally I think 5.8M for a solid veteran top 6 forward is fair), but from the outside it would seem Adam Henrique would be a good fit. He can be used as your all situations veteran 2C up until the point the younger guys push their way in, and then shift back to LW where he's more accomplished as a goal scorer. Top 40 faceoff guy this season.
 

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I know people have their differing opinions about his contract (personally I think 5.8M for a solid veteran top 6 forward is fair), but from the outside it would seem Adam Henrique would be a good fit. He can be used as your all situations veteran 2C up until the point the younger guys push their way in, and then shift back to LW where he's more accomplished as a goal scorer. Top 40 faceoff guy this season.

Honestly, when I started this process Henrique was the first guy I examined and I still sort of think of him as a possibility but there are some things I do not like that has me leaving him off the list. His impacts are so scattered season to season and team to team and his deal is odd in that it seems to go too long and yet with inflation it might be a solid add for 2-3 more years of the 5 remaining seasons.
 

Chainshot

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And honestly, I can't believe that it's been almost 10 years and the entire tank-a-thon and here I am making a thread about the need for them to find more centers. One day right? One day they will have depth and not do something stupid with it right?
 

truthbluth

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And honestly, I can't believe that it's been almost 10 years and the entire tank-a-thon and here I am making a thread about the need for them to find more centers. One day right? One day they will have depth and not do something stupid with it right?
Yeah. Copp is good. Duchene would be a good get, but then I start to worry about the cap. Botts absolutely has to strike gold with a Risto trade. It feels like the only way.
 

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Yeah. Copp is good. Duchene would be a good get, but then I start to worry about the cap. Botts absolutely has to strike gold with a Risto trade. It feels like the only way.

I think Chevy knows Copp is good and he's not shown that he'll make a dopey trade. It's almost like the Sabres are going to have to unexpectedly strike gold - someone unheralded will have to step forward to fill the role in a way no one foresees now. My concerns about the front office, both the GM and their pro scouting, is hard to look past right now.

That said, they have to stop waiting. They have to add players who will have positive impact in the next few years and it has to start now. They can't afford to have two or three lines that they would like to shelter in some fashion any longer.
 

TehDoak

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Yeah. Copp is good. Duchene would be a good get, but then I start to worry about the cap. Botts absolutely has to strike gold with a Risto trade. It feels like the only way.

I don't think he has to strike gold.

He simply has to get an adequate return, which, IMHO, is a top 6 forward + 1st round pick or highly rated prospect.

We can then use other ammo to go after a center.

I'd be shocked if we were able to flip Risto for the center that meets our needs in one trade.
 

Jame

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I think Chevy knows Copp is good and he's not shown that he'll make a dopey trade. It's almost like the Sabres are going to have to unexpectedly strike gold - someone unheralded will have to step forward to fill the role in a way no one foresees now. My concerns about the front office, both the GM and their pro scouting, is hard to look past right now.

That said, they have to stop waiting. They have to add players who will have positive impact in the next few years and it has to start now. They can't afford to have two or three lines that they would like to shelter in some fashion any longer.

The ability to identify NHL growth is so critical this offseason. Jordan Weal was my guy for exactly that... too bad he re-signed.

RE: Henrique....

What is Anaheim both willing to retain and willing to pay for us to take that contract?
 

Fjordy

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The ability to identify NHL growth is so critical this offseason. Jordan Weal was my guy for exactly that... too bad he re-signed.

RE: Henrique....

What is Anaheim both willing to retain and willing to pay for us to take that contract?
I remember a couple of weeks ago there was the theme of Risto and Anaheim, where we agree on about such a deal with the Anaheim fan.
:sabres
Henrique
Ritchie
Groulx
2019 1st Sjs
:ducks2
Ristolainen
S.J. Smith
Nelson
2019 3rd
 

TehDoak

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Re: Henrique

#1. 10 Team NTC. So likely not even an option
#2. 29 years old. 5.825M for the next 5 seasons, career high of 50 points.

I'm sure at some level, he's available. But.....I'm not sure I'd pay much more than taking on that contract. He's likely going to be a high 30s/low 40 point center for the duration.
 

WhatTheDuck

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I remember a couple of weeks ago there was the theme of Risto and Anaheim, where we agree on about such a deal with the Anaheim fan.
:sabres
Henrique
Ritchie
Groulx
2019 1st Sjs
:ducks2
Ristolainen
S.J. Smith
Nelson
2019 3rd

If the Sabres are moving Risto, and the perfect straight up trade for a 2C doesn't come along, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable deal.

Ritchie really took a step forward this season, he worked hard during his extended off season and was one of our more consistent offensive threats in a year where we had very few. He could be really excellent value at 1.5M for the next couple seasons, still an RFA after that. He's developed nice chemistry with Henrique (with young Kase on RW), so you'd essentially be getting two thirds of a new line that could accommodate one of your young wingers.

Risto is such a great fit for the Ducks. They can give him the 4th (maybe even 5th depending on Larsson's development) toughest defensive assignments and really let him focus on bringing some much needed offensive punch to our blueline.
 
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WhatTheDuck

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Re: Henrique

#1. 10 Team NTC. So likely not even an option
#2. 29 years old. 5.825M for the next 5 seasons, career high of 50 points.

I'm sure at some level, he's available. But.....I'm not sure I'd pay much more than taking on that contract. He's likely going to be a high 30s/low 40 point center for the duration.

The NTC doesn't kick in until July, so the Ducks have a short window to move him anywhere if I'm not mistaken.

He was a 40+ guy this year on a team that had a completely dreadful season. I'd expect him to be his usual 40+ point self for the majority of the contract.
 

Chainshot

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The ability to identify NHL growth is so critical this offseason. Jordan Weal was my guy for exactly that... too bad he re-signed.

RE: Henrique....

What is Anaheim both willing to retain and willing to pay for us to take that contract?

That is a question. If they’re worried about the long-term Implications of the deal in Anaheim, what is the value of taking that off their hands versus what did they think the value of the player is in the short term while they’re rebuilding. He’s not my favorite target. He reminds me of Matt Stajan, Just a smidge more expensive than I want to pay for that sort of fill.


Re: Henrique

#1. 10 Team NTC. So likely not even an option
#2. 29 years old. 5.825M for the next 5 seasons, career high of 50 points.

I'm sure at some level, he's available. But.....I'm not sure I'd pay much more than taking on that contract. He's likely going to be a high 30s/low 40 point center for the duration.

Agreed, there’s probably a couple of years worth of 30 or 40 point production based on a role and time on ice. But I just feel like that contract is going to age poorly. I hate NTCs. In terms of willingness to accept, he’s pretty low on my list.
 
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