Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition 3.0 - Steve Pearce signs for 2/$12.5

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Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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We need to sign one of EE or JB, and another OF preferably Fowler. Otherwise the lineup does not look promising IMO

disagree. This lineup looks fine with 1 of those additions. If you feel like you need to be the 2015 Jays offense maybe not, but adding 1 of those guys and the offense is just as good as last years if not better, and hopefully there's some improvements(Stroman, maybe Sanchez though he was really good) from the staff too.
 

Discoverer

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And EE supposedly is depressed and disappointed with the Jays signing of Pearce..


Problem is idiot, you should have accepted the deal long ago instead of being selfish. Because as your agent puts it, you are not in it for the money.

He did the same thing almost every free agent athlete ever has done.
 

BlueForever

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Latest from EE's dumb stupid agent....ruined his client.

Kinzer said #BlueJays offer (4 years, ~$80M ) came during quiet period, and Edwin wasn't ready to decide before hearing from other clubs.

Paul Kinzer: "Edwin loved Toronto. He hoped to go back. But he waited his whole career for free agency and wanted to see what's out there."
 

Patmac40

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Jun 7, 2012
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As much as EE's agent is stating that his client isn't about the money and isn't flashy.

Its very hypocritical for him to say the above and want to go play in places like Cleveland or Texas where it totally goes against what it is he wants in a city that he wants to play in.

He should have signed already in Toronto if indeed this is where his heart is. If he doesn't sign here he instantly becomes a villain alla Vince Carter or Al Leiter.

We made him.... gave him his shot. He's nothing had JP Riccardi not taken a flyer on him and had we not invested the time we did into him making him who he is today.

Players like this cause rifts in the locker room. The Jays have something going 2 years straight. Probably the best fans in baseball. But this guy and his agent turn down a fair deal to go play else where.

Good riddance....and good luck.

Agreed but we replaced 2 out of the 3 players with players like you suggest. Bringing back EE does multiple things....

1. Great clubhouse guy team rallies around
2. Best pure hitter and probably best run producer in our lineup
3. Appeases the fans, fills the seats

Which one is it?

No need for the high horse when literally every free agent does the same thing.

Latest from EE's dumb stupid agent....ruined his client.

Kinzer said #BlueJays offer (4 years, ~$80M ) came during quiet period, and Edwin wasn't ready to decide before hearing from other clubs.

Paul Kinzer: "Edwin loved Toronto. He hoped to go back. But he waited his whole career for free agency and wanted to see what's out there."

He (and his agent) would be stupid to accept an offer without listening to the other ones when handling free agency
 

Loosie

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I'm curious how does signing Pearce who is not an everyday player, mean we are out on EE? Surely Phillips doesn't figure the Jays will platoon Smoak and Pearce out at 1B? It's not like Pearce's contract is breaking the bank either. Is it just click bait, or is there truth to it?
 

BlueForever

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He did the same thing almost every free agent athlete ever has done.

Really!!!!

Cause I could have sworn players like Ortiz for example...never left Boston through 2 free agency periods because he loved Boston....and Boston made him when he was a flake out in Minnesota out looking for work.

Ortiz wants to endorse a bum like EE.... how about he teaches him what honor and professionalism is all about. At least Ortiz is a class act. Gave back to city that made him that supported him. Not like EE and his agent that took us all for granted.

It should have been simple....week one in. Listen to what is out there...nothing serious stay at home. Cause remember EE....Toronto is your home away from home.

You should have stayed longer in the dugout after that last game at Rogers center and really listened to the crowd that loved you. Instead of going for the green. You selfish *****.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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They couldn't wait around on EE. They made him a solid offer, he wanted to test the market, they had to move on.
His agent may end up looking like a dink on this one
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
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Jays are probably out on EE because Pearce profiles more as a 1B (though he can play corner OF/2B/3B). He won't get those reps with Morales and EE occupying DH/1B spots. His recent injuries include oblique, hamstring, and a strained flexor mass (throwing arm). Entering next season at age 34 you probably don't want him playing everyday in the outfield.
 

Canada4Gold

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I'm curious how does signing Pearce who is not an everyday player, mean we are out on EE? Surely Phillips doesn't figure the Jays will platoon Smoak and Pearce out at 1B? It's not like Pearce's contract is breaking the bank either. Is it just click bait, or is there truth to it?

Pearce is an everyday player though. He has the stats of an everyday player, better from this bad side(against righties) than any of his platoon options are. He just has considerable injury risk because he hasn't played more than 102 games in a season.

if he's healthy he should be in the lineup basically every single day.

A big part of Pearce is his versatility, if they were to sign EE you pretty much take that away. EE/Morales is trading 1B/DH everyday, Travis playing 2nd when he's not hurt, Pearce pretty much becomes an everyday outfielder. An everyday outfielder that backs up 2nd and 1st is fine I guess but I don't think that's why he was signed. The logic doesn't really follow to sign him and then shoehorn him into that spot.

Morales is more of the EE is gone sign. By itself it doesn't rule EE out, but it rules it out a lot more than Pearce by itself. It's just once you sign Morales and then add Pearce, both moves combined lead one to believe EE's not coming back because EE coming back would shoehorn the versatility they just got.

Now if EE's market completely dries up and you can get a really good deal on him sure you squeeze and make it fit, but at this point I think that'd be around 3/60 territory and I don't see EE's market coming down that far.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Jays are probably out on EE because Pearce profiles more as a 1B (though he can play corner OF/2B/3B). He won't get those reps with Morales and EE occupying DH/1B spots. His recent injuries include oblique, hamstring, and a strained flexor mass (throwing arm). Entering next season at age 34 you probably don't want him playing everyday in the outfield.

All apt, and accurate.

Also good evidence to suggest Phillips (or more likely his assistant) is simply putting 2 and 2 together, and has no inside information whatsoever
 

SDig14

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So any chance we could use Pearce as an OF for one or two years if EE was willing to take a short deal? Or is Pearce undoubtedly not able to play full time anywhere other than 1B?

Probably very unlikely I guess.

Must address OF in a hurry then, preferably Granderson or Fowler.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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And, just to be fair, I don't think the Cubs expected to be playing Ben Zobrist in LF every day at 36 years old. Good teams have depth, and sometimes the puzzle pieces don't fit as perfectly as us fans would like.

I'll close the door on EE when he signs elsewhere.
 

Discoverer

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Really!!!!

Cause I could have sworn players like Ortiz for example...never left Boston through 2 free agency periods because he loved Boston....and Boston made him when he was a flake out in Minnesota out looking for work.

Ortiz wants to endorse a bum like EE.... how about he teaches him what honor and professionalism is all about. At least Ortiz is a class act. Gave back to city that made him that supported him. Not like EE and his agent that took us all for granted.

It should have been simple....week one in. Listen to what is out there...nothing serious stay at home. Cause remember EE....Toronto is your home away from home.

You should have stayed longer in the dugout after that last game at Rogers center and really listened to the crowd that loved you. Instead of going for the green. You selfish *****.

Ah yes, David Ortiz and his unwavering commitment to the Boston Re...

"There's too much drama, man," Ortiz told Dominguez in reference to the Red Sox. "There's too much drama. I have been thinking about a lot of things. I don't know if I want to be part of this drama for next year."
 

janesy12

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Aug 27, 2010
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I still don't see the door as being closed on EE. Literally his suitors are falling one by one. If I'm the Jays now I go back to EE and say "Listen, our offer is still on the table. We want you here, we'd love to have you back. Let's just get this done so we can continue to add more pieces along with you to bring this city a championship".
 

PG Canuck

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Mar 29, 2010
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Happy we moved on. I'm tired of the waiting game. As good as EE is, we can't sit around and wait for him to make decisions while other plan B's get signed.

Time to move on.
 

Eyedea

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Jan 29, 2012
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Really!!!!

Cause I could have sworn players like Ortiz for example...never left Boston through 2 free agency periods because he loved Boston....and Boston made him when he was a flake out in Minnesota out looking for work.

Ortiz wants to endorse a bum like EE.... how about he teaches him what honor and professionalism is all about. At least Ortiz is a class act. Gave back to city that made him that supported him. Not like EE and his agent that took us all for granted.

It should have been simple....week one in. Listen to what is out there...nothing serious stay at home. Cause remember EE....Toronto is your home away from home.

You should have stayed longer in the dugout after that last game at Rogers center and really listened to the crowd that loved you. Instead of going for the green. You selfish *****.

Which is funny because there were rumours about Ortiz leaving the Red Sox in both the 2011 and 2012 offseasons.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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So any chance we could use Pearce as an OF for one or two years if EE was willing to take a short deal? Or is Pearce undoubtedly not able to play full time anywhere other than 1B?

Pearce can play the outfield, 2nd base too. But you're probably increasing the risk of injury for a guy who has never played an entire season. The safest bet is mostly 1B with some time in those other spots. You're also taking away entirely the value of one of his abilities, being able to fit all over the field by forcing him to be a starting outfielder.

Like has been said it could fit, but you're forcing everything to fit in there 1 way, and that doesn't sound like what they're going for. It would probably take a too good to turn down deal for EE to come back at this point.
 

hoc123

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There is a good chance we are interested on Brad Ziegler. According to Chris Cotillo's twitter 9 out the 10 playoff teams are interested in him.
 

RoyalCitySlicker

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Fair enough, I perhaps over-emphasized your lack of excitement for the deal. I apologize.

If they brought back EE they would have had to go cheap on the outfield, stick with Upton who was terrible, Carrera would was less terrible but still not good, hope Pompey suddenly finds it(my favorite option of the 3), or some cheap bad free agent option, and they would have had to pick 2 of those 4 options to start.

Then there's the pen, which they may have also had to cheap out on. Osuna's great but a lot of the disdain from the more casual viewer this past year was the blown leads from the pen.

Morales was probably more of a the signing that hinted at EE being gone. Morales and EE at 1B/DH would have went against what they've been saying they've wanted, which is more versatility. Now we know they had an offer of 4/80 on the table and pulled it and signed Morales instead.

If we're directly replacing Edwin in our minds, it's Morales that's replacing him. That big power bat, at 1st but mostly DH. He could hit 40 homeruns this year. 30 or 35 is more likely.

This is just a value signing from a guy who can hit well over a 100 game sample in a year. It adds versatility, and production, all the while allowing you to allocate the bigger money to other areas of need. Yeah he might not be able to play 150 games but if he only plays 100 he still adds plenty of value. Especially for the amount spent.

If the choice is EE + cheap pen + cheap OF or Fowler/Jose + Pearce + Mid range pen arm that choice is easy for me. Sure there's less power, but we still added Morales, and Jose is still an option, the HR's are still there.

It's not a sexy move, but the money is still there for 1 of the top tier guys, and these are the types of underrated moves that you need to add additional value to your roster to help you win ball games.

You don't have to get excited about it, but that doesn't mean you have to tell or we signed Carlo Colaiacovo or tell us you're not buying what we're selling, we're not selling anything. We understand that for this roster to make the playoffs next year a vlue signing like this that adds additional wins for cheap is vital and we're happy about it.



A bit of both. As far as I know he was underutilized early in his career, some of that was believing he needed to be platooned. Once given more time the past couple years he's had some injuries.

there's certainly some injury risk involved, but the numbers suggest he need not be platooned. But even at 100 games of production I think this is a steal. I know you're not into advanced stats, but 1 fWAR usually costs about 8 or 9 million dollars in free agency. So he'd need to put up roughly 1.5 fWAR over the 2 years to be worth the contract. or 3/4 of a fWAR per year. The past 3 years he's put up 2.0, 0.4, and 4.9 averaging 93 games per year. If he stays the same and plays the same there should be plenty of surplus value here. If he can survive the rigors of a full season and get say even 140 games it's highway robbery.

Hey, thanks for that! Appreciate you taking the time. When presented with the options you suggested above, I agree - I take the same combo as you (Pearce + Morales + Jose/Fowler + mid range pen).

The Colaiacovo comp - which some apparently too exception to - was not meant as a slight to the team or player. I was merely trying to think of a player who people thought had all the tools, but couldn't manage to stay healthy. If it was a poor example, or in bad taste, I apologize....I did not mean it as anything other than an injury prone player with talent.

And I know there is certainly merit to signings like this, and perhaps this one in particular. While I don't think that Pearce/Morales is a good enough replacement for EE (assuming he does not come back) after reading what you wrote, I have a better understanding of why it might not be possible to address all we (I) want them to in a real world, under budget scenario. And of course, they are definitely not done!

Anyway, don't want to waste any more of your time. Thanks for the response....I'll retreat back under my bridge and will eagerly await the next move(s). ;)
 

Habaneros

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Oct 31, 2011
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Only bonus he can hit at Tropicana Field:laugh:


Man, not how i was envisioning the offseason......

Edwin 100+ RBI a year.....hits Boston and New York hard...



We pick up Kendrys Morales who struggles against Yankees and Boston and now Pearce who's not great vs Red Sox
 
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Nasty Nazem

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Kinzer gonna get fired.

Such overreaction. I am willing to bet Edwin will get more than 4/80.

3/48 for Rich Hill :laugh:
4/60 for Melancon. Teams are overvaluing relievers a lot nowadays due to some recency bias. Chapman and Jansen deals are going to be nuts.

I read somewhere that Jays have offered Fowler 4/60 and the agent is looking for 18M per. Honestly, with some of the contracts we have seen in FA and the fact they are getting inflated each year, I'd just offer 4/70 (17.5M per) and pretty much wrap up your FA. After that, they can just sit back, look for potential bargains towards the end of FA and look for cheap relievers.
 
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