Celtics/NBA Off-Season/Draft - Celtics complete sign-and-trade, send Gordon Hayward to Hornets

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EvilDead

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Looks like you’ll be seeing the Lakers in the finals again. They’ve upgraded every single area of their roster

Rondo -> Schröder
Javale McGee/Dwight Howard -> Harrell/Gasol
Wes Matthews for fun

That's if the Celtics don't puke on themselves the way they did against the Heat this season. I have serious doubts the Celtics will be able to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals again. The East got a lot tougher and KD and Kyrie are healthy. Despite those egos clashing, I'm sure they'll be able to keep it under wraps for long enough to get them to at least the finals.
 

BernieMcAvoy

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Looks like you’ll be seeing the Lakers in the finals again. They’ve upgraded every single area of their roster

Rondo -> Schröder
Javale McGee/Dwight Howard -> Harrell/Gasol
Wes Matthews for fun
Schroder is a good player but Harrell is Kanter if you replaced his skills in the post with athleticism and rim running, he's a terrible defender and Gasol is washed. There's some debate over how good Theis is and if he's better than Turner or not on here but he absolutely played Gasol off the court in the Toronto series, anytime they were on the floor at the same time it forced Gasol to either sag off and leave a shooter wide open or come out and get blown by because he's the slowest player on the court, every second he was on the court instead of Ibaka the Celtics were feasting.

The Lakers are at a similar level as last seasons team, their bigs besides Davis will struggle in the playoffs, their defense besides Lebron and Davis has gotten worse but the 3rd best player on the team is better than last years and gives them another ball handler who can create for himself or others
 
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CDJ

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I figured this would be the case but Andre Drummond absolutely mutilates Turner when they play


9E5A2D82-D2DC-49AE-A893-50F083168CB1.jpeg


he can’t play against anybody that plays with any sort of aggression on the glass/in the paint. If that player is healthy they are probably going to light him up more often than not


Imagine your starting center getting out rebounded 76-27 in 4 games while also allowing over 20 ppg to the guy


Those are bad teams Drummond played on too and they still pulled out 3 of 4, largely because Turner is completely helpless against centers with an ounce of toughness

Horford shut him down in the playoffs last year and out rebounded him in each game. Horford isn’t even a rebounder! Towns kills him when he plays him (9.5 and 2 vs 29.5 and 16). It’s not even limited to stars- Valanciunas holds him to 8 and 6 while getting 12 and 11. Capela mutilates him ever since becoming a starter in the league. Rudy Gobert had 17 and 13.5 in his two games against him this year- Turner had 10 and 4.5. He can’t play effectively against bigs with actual size and talent

If him and Marcus Smart are battling for a rebound with the game on the line I know who I got my money on. And it’s not Milquetoast Myles despite the size gap. Pacers made the right choice in going with him over Trey Lyles but he is what he is. He does some things well but he gets absolutely abused/bullied on the glass and in the paint
 
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DangleCity

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I figured this would be the case but Andre Drummond absolutely mutilates Turner when they play


View attachment 377126

he can’t play against anybody that plays with any sort of aggression on the glass/in the paint. If that player is healthy they are probably going to light him up more often than not


Imagine your starting center getting out rebounded 76-27 in 4 games while also allowing over 20 ppg to the guy


Those are bad teams Drummond played on too and they still pulled out 3 of 4, largely because Turner is completely helpless against centers with an ounce of toughness

Horford shut him down in the playoffs last year and out rebounded him in each game. Horford isn’t even a rebounder! Towns kills him when he plays him (9.5 and 2 vs 29.5 and 16). It’s not even limited to stars- Valanciunas holds him to 8 and 6 while getting 12 and 11. Capela mutilates him ever since becoming a starter in the league. Rudy Gobert had 17 and 13.5 in his two games against him this year- Turner had 10 and 4.5. He can’t play effectively against bigs with actual size and talent

If him and Marcus Smart are battling for a rebound with the game on the line I know who I got my money on. And it’s not Milquetoast Myles despite the size gap. Pacers made the right choice in going with him over Trey Lyles but he is what he is. He does some things well but he gets absolutely abused/bullied on the glass and in the paint
You can spin them getting nothing for Hayward anyway you like, but at the end of the day they essentially lost $30 million in cap space. I would have taken Myles Turner on one leg because at least they have his contract slot.

Also your rebounding stat isnt exactly apples to apples with Theis. Turner usually plays with a center and Theis plays with a bunch of wings.
 

CDJ

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You can spin them getting nothing for Hayward anyway you like, but at the end of the day they essentially lost $30 million in cap space. I would have taken Myles Turner on one leg because at least they have his contract slot.

Also your rebounding stat isnt exactly apples to apples with Theis. Turner usually plays with a center and Theis plays with a bunch of wings.

A) I’m not spinning anything, the player is just not good.

B) still seemingly negotiating a sign and trade with Charlotte

C) turner has never rebounded no matter who he plays with. Also I did not bring up Theis at all in that post you responded to

D) you’re still wrong and I’m not going to engage with you anymore because quite frankly youre annoying and I’m not going in circles with you today when I know I’m right and it’s been validated by many others- including league experts who know a shit ton more than you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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DangleCity

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A) I’m not spinning anything, the player is just not good.

B) still seemingly negotiating a sign and trade with Charlotte

C) turner has never rebounded no matter who he plays with

C) you’re still wrong and I’m not going to engage with you anymore because quite frankly your annoying as f*** and I’m not going in circles with you today

Yes, you are. Contracts are worth something in the NBA. Sorry Im annyoing you with pesky facts. Even if I want to concede to you that Turner is a hot pile of garbage, his contract slot had value.
 

DangleCity

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Too bad the pacers didn’t offer 4/120 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

/discussion
Why the hell would the Pacers offer that before FA? The whole point of the trade was to get it done while Hayward had the ability to pick up his option. The Pacers would have been out bidding themselves at that point.

Everybody loses now that they let it get to FA. You risk one team getting stupid with a contract
 

CDJ

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So you think gordon Hayward was gonna risk 9 figures playing on a one year deal with a new team and with nerve pain in his foot while not looking out for his long term security/his own best interests

And

the pacers were gonna trade for a guy who can opt out and check the open market (like he wanted to do). The entire time the major reporters were saying he was keeping his options open. Indy was just a leading contender. The Knicks and the Hawks were involved. You just want to cry and cry and cry because Danny didn’t do what you wanted even though it wasn’t his call. You can keep ignoring league experts that are telling you that’s not how any of this works if you want to, get those cries about Danny out. Because he’s going to be here a long time and that’s a good thing.

fact of the matter is he got a MASSIVE offer nobody was expecting from an organization he has already wanted to sign with in the past. Hell he DID sign with them in RFA, the offersheet just got matched by the Jazz. He was always going to get that offer unless you were going to personally kidnap Mitch Kupchak. He has now chosen the Hornets over Indiana TWICE in free agency.

Shit happens. Can’t do a sign and trade when the sign part didn’t happen because the pacers offer got beat, probably by more than 40 mill. Hopefully we get the trade exception.
 
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Gator Mike

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Just stop with Theis is better than Turner
Theis is a better overall offensive player, better rebounder, and a better man defender even when you consider that he fouls more frequently.

Turner is a better shot blocker and a slightly better jump shooter. That's about it.

He does everything Theis does and is younger and has a chance to improve. Theis is what he is at this point.
Just because Turner is younger doesn't mean he's getting better.

In fact, I'd say Turner's growth has largely plateaued, while Theis is a much better player than he was three years ago.

The problem isn't that they didn't take on Myles Turner. If they got anything from Indiana I would be over the moon. It's the fact that Danny Ainge has allowed Gordon Hayward to go for absolutely nothing and is left holding the bag with a bunch of dead cap money.
I wouldn't say that it's "dead cap money" just yet. Let's see if the sign-and-trade with Charlotte for a trade exception comes to pass.

Also, I think you're downplaying the luxury tax implications. It's one thing to pay a huge luxury tax if you're getting someone like TJ Warren or Victor Oladipo in return - guys who are real difference-makers. Its' another to pay luxury tax in exchange for Myles Turner and Doug McDermott, when you could probably sign free agents who are nearly as good that won't cost you an extra $55 million.

(Yes, I know the owners of the Celtics are rich. No, I don't think they have bottomless pit of money that they're willing to shovel into a furnace.)
 
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CDJ

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Celtics apparently had interest in Kent Bazemore before he opted to play in GS for the vet min


Seems like that means they want to add a 3 and D guy. I bet they end up with Torrey Craig or Allen Crabbe or somebody in that mold


Also excited to see grant williams and Romeo Langford progress...they are both better defenders than I anticipated
 
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DangleCity

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So you think gordon Hayward was gonna risk 9 figures playing on a one year deal with a new team and with nerve pain in his foot while not looking out for his long term security/his own best interests

And

the pacers were gonna trade for a guy who can opt out and check the open market (like he wanted to do). The entire time the major reporters were saying he was keeping his options open. Indy was just a leading contender. The Knicks and the Hawks were involved. You just want to cry and cry and cry because Danny didn’t do what you wanted even though it wasn’t his call. You can keep ignoring league experts that are telling you that’s not how any of this works if you want to, get those cries about Danny out. Because he’s going to be here a long time and that’s a good thing.

fact of the matter is he got a MASSIVE offer nobody was expecting from an organization he has already wanted to sign with in the past. Hell he DID sign with them in RFA, the offersheet just got matched by the Jazz. He was always going to get that offer unless you were going to personally kidnap Mitch Kupchak. He has now chosen the Hornets over Indiana TWICE in free agency.

Shit happens. Can’t do a sign and trade when the sign part didn’t happen because the pacers offer got beat, probably by more than 40 mill. Hopefully we get the trade exception.
Every report was that he wanted to play for Indiana. That's why he bought a home there and extended the opt out window for Danny to get the deal done. The fact that Danny couldnt get the deal done, opened up the door for Charlotte to come in during FA and blow everyone away.

You want to put this on Gordon, when all the reports coming out whers that Danny was busting balls on who the Pacers where going to send back. And If I remember correctly, you where cheering Danny on for busting balls. So dont try to sit here now and act like Danny couldnt do anything. He had every opportunity to get the deal done and overplayed his hand. The hang up on Indy was the package not the contract.
 

BostonBob

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Words fail me. :amazed:

from espn.com:

In an unprecedented meeting, a delegation of five NBA players and several officials from the National Basketball Players Association met with Pope Francis at the Vatican on Monday morning for a private audience to discuss their work on social justice issues.

An assistant to Pope Francis reached out to the players' association last week indicating the Pope wanted to learn more about how players had recently brought attention to pressing social justice issues and economic inequality -- and what they planned for the future, union officials told ESPN. The union agreed and quickly scheduled an overnight flight Sunday to make their private meeting with the pope, which happened at 11:45 a.m. local time Monday morning at the Vatican. With training camp set to open on Dec. 1, players and union officials had to squeeze the trip in now.

The delegation included Kyle Korver and Sterling Brown; Jonathan Isaac of the Orlando Magic; Anthony Toliver, the union's secretary-treasurer; Marco Belinelli; and Michelle Roberts, executive director of the players union.

The meeting lasted about an hour at the papal library of the Apostolic Palace, after which the players and union officials toured St. Peter's Square.

 

CDJ

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What do these athletes do with all this money? One would think the world would be a better place if these gazillionaires (celebs and company owners as well) really tried to do more for all that ails this country.

This times infinity

society needs a major overhaul imo but I think I’ve already typed enough words in this thread over the last couple days so I won’t get into it other then saying we don’t value the people we need to value enough and we give too much power to those that have money
 
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Over the volcano

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What do these athletes do with all this money? One would think the world would be a better place if these gazillionaires (celebs and company owners as well) really tried to do more for all that ails this country.
Everyone can do their part and then some - first thing that comes to mind with this bunch is how they leveraged their position pushing their league to open up arenas and practice facilities for voting during this last election. Turn out in Atlanta and Detroit was huge and in real large part boosted by these players turning the screws on their owners.
 
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DangleCity

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What do these athletes do with all this money? One would think the world would be a better place if these gazillionaires (celebs and company owners as well) really tried to do more for all that ails this country.
I think they do more than you think with their money and giving back.
 

CDJ

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They’re not going to stretch Batum, that’s a bluff. It would be wildly stupid to do so. It would basically mean you’re paying $40 mill for Hayward over the next few years.
 
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