Celtics/NBA Off-Season/Draft - Celtics complete sign-and-trade, send Gordon Hayward to Hornets

[Maine Fan]

As far as I am concerned, the Celtics improved their team could it have been better or worse? We fans will never know. However on paper and having watch Hayward the Celtics are better off as is now. That's enough for me.

Go Celtics.

 

[DangleCity]

you're creating a narrative for yourself to shit on Danny. we don't know what Indiana was willing to pay and what killed the deal.

Which is why I am going off the reporting. Even celtic reporters are saying Danny overplayed his hand.

 

[Gator Mike]

Also Myles Turner isn’t good, I figure I’d throw that out there. He blocks shots and can shoot reasonably well for a big. That’s it. He stinks defensively if he’s not blocking the shot. Gets eaten up in the pick and roll. He doesn’t rebound. Like I said before all the moves happened his most useful purpose is that he’s a medium sized salary to trade over Smart in a deal matching situation.

This.

Use flimsy analytics all you want to justify this half baked panic signing. Thompson is much older than Turner (and has more miles no pun intended), hasn't been able to stay healthy for more than 60 games a season since 2016-17, is undersized as a stretch 5 (both in height and wingspan), and is garbage from outside.

For what it's worth, Thompson was on pace to play more than 70 games last year prior to the stoppage.

Also, Daniel Theis is better than Myles Turner.

And that would make Myles Turner an $18 million/year bench player.

 

[DangleCity]

This.


For what it's worth, Thompson was on pace to play more than 70 games last year prior to the stoppage.

Also, Daniel Theis is better than Myles Turner.

And that would make Myles Turner an $18 million/year bench player.

Just stop with Theis is better than Turner

 

[CDJ]

He is.


Theis gets a ton of respect from analysts across the league. Turner gets a lot of flack for being more inconsistent than weather in New England and being a subpar defender outside of the shot blocks. Plus he doesn’t bring much physicality/rebounding for a guy his size that plays those minutes. If you give Theis those minutes (29 vs 24) he actually puts up similar numbers, just with better rebounding and defense.


I’d much rather have Thompson at 9, that’s for sure

 

[DangleCity]

He is.


Theis gets a ton of respect from analysts across the league. Turner gets a lot of flack for being more inconsistent than weather in New England and being a subpar defender outside of the shot blocks. Plus he doesn’t bring much physicality/rebounding for a guy his size that plays those minutes. If you give Theis those minutes (29 vs 24) he actually puts up similar numbers, just with better rebounding and defense.

If Theis could put up those numbers he would be playing. Thats the problem with some of these analytics. You can take any average player and make them into something they arent with the right stats.

Theis is a foul machine, thats one of the main reasons he cant play big minutes.

Also, i dont think Turner is any great shakes, but he is a better player than Theis. And would help this team a lot.

This always seems to happen with the Celtics, as soon as we lose out on a player, everyone suddenly says that the player isn't that good and that we have better playes on the Celtics. It's so annoying

 

[CDJ]

If Theis could put up those numbers he would be playing. Thats the problem with some of these analytics. You can take any average player and make them into something they arent with the right stats.

Theis is a foul machine, thats one of the main reasons he cant play big minutes.

Lol it’s literally 5 minutes a game and he doesn’t play that because the Celtics are a better team than Indiana is. PJ Tucker played a lot more than both of them this season, by your logic he’s incredible!

I know who is out there in crunch time for the Celtics though. It wouldn’t be Myles Turner if him and Theis are both on the Celtics....


You still haven’t told me a single thing Turner does well outside of block shots and shoot a little bit (he’s not exactly a sharpshooter)

 

[Gator Mike]

This isnt a good comparison because acquiring Turner would have been via trade for Hayward. They actually could have had both Turner and Thompson

But why would you want both?

I'll concede this - in a vacuum, I'd rather have Turner than Thompson. But this isn't a vacuum.

Over the next three seasons, Turner is due $54 million in salary. Thompson is due $19 million over the next two years, and let's assume that once Thompson leaves, the Celtics use the taxpayer MLE to sign a $5 million/year player for year three. So, Turner over Thompson costs the Celtics an extra $30 million in salary over the next three seasons.

Once Jayson Tatum's max contract extension kicks in, the Celtics will be well above the luxury tax threshold. My best guess is that they'll probably be at the level where they pay $2.50 for each $1.00 over the threshold. That means Turner's extra $8.5 million in Year Two will cost them $21.25 million in luxury tax, and the extra $13.5 million in Year Three will cost them $33.75 million.

So, there's a real chance that trading for Turner over signing Thompson would cost the Celtics an extra $30 million in salary and an extra $55 million in luxury tax over the next three seasons.

 

[DangleCity]

Lol it’s literally 5 minutes a game and he doesn’t play that because the Celtics are a better team than Indiana is. PJ Tucker played a lot more than both of them this season, by your logic he’s incredible!

I know who is out there in crunch time for the Celtics though. It wouldn’t be Myles Turner if him and Theis are both on the Celtics....


You still haven’t told me a single thing Turner does well outside of block shots and shoot a little bit (he’s not exactly a sharpshooter)

He does everything Theis does and is younger and has a chance to improve. Theis is what he is at this point.

Also, a rim protector is exactly what this team needs. He would have been a perfecf fit.

 

[DangleCity]

But why would you want both?

I'll concede this - in a vacuum, I'd rather have Turner than Thompson. But this isn't a vacuum.

Over the next three seasons, Turner is due $54 million in salary. Thompson is due $19 million over the next two years, and let's assume that once Thompson leaves, the Celtics use the taxpayer MLE to sign a $5 million/year player for year three. So, Turner over Thompson costs the Celtics an extra $30 million in salary over the next three seasons.

Once Jayson Tatum's max contract extension kicks in, the Celtics will be well above the luxury tax threshold. My best guess is that they'll probably be at the level where they pay $2.50 for each $1.00 over the threshold. That means Turner's extra $8.5 million in Year Two will cost them $21.25 million in luxury tax, and the extra $13.5 million in Year Three will cost them $33.75 million.

So, there's a real chance that trading for Turner over signing Thompson would cost the Celtics an extra $30 million in salary and an extra $55 million in luxury tax over the next three seasons.

I couldn't care less about their money. They Essentially lost cap space by not getting anything for Hayward

 

[CDJ]

He does everything Theis does and is younger and has a chance to improve. Theis is what he is at this point.

Also, a rim protector is exactly what this team needs. He would have been a perfecf fit.

he does not do everything Theis does, he’s not close to as good of a defender or rebounder. He also isnt good in all pick and roll situations (kinda a big deal in 2020), where Theis is an excellent screener and is fantastic defensively in these situations (not to mention a premium help defender and charge taker)


For this team, Theis is the much better player. If you needed somebody to score the ball a little more often while being overall a less effective player pretty much everywhere else, then sure Turner is the guy.

it’s nice that turner blocks shots but there’s a lot more to defense than that

 

[BigGoalBrad]

he does not do everything Theis does, he’s not close to as good of a defender or rebounder. He also isnt good in all pick and roll situations (kinda a big deal in 2020), where Theis is an excellent screener and is fantastic defensively in these situations (not to mention a premium help defender and charge taker)


For this team, Theis is the much better player. If you needed somebody to score the ball a little more often while being overall a less effective player pretty much everywhere else, then sure Turner is the guy.

If we sucked and needed another star Turner would be someone you could bring in and give the green light to and it might work out.

I don't think we'd see that upside here.

I actually love getting Thompson since he doesn't jack threes. Yeah AD can but he was a freaking PG until he was 17 and probably silently someone underrated as an all time great not far off Jabar/Bird/Jordan/Russel/Wilt etc etc.

If your Charlotte and chosing between the two by all means take Turner. But I like the Thompson fit. Also glad we got 2 vets the locker room should have some good balance. HUGE intangibles/leadership upgrade adding him and Teague for Hayward.

 

[CDJ]

If we sucked and needed another star Turner would be someone you could bring in and give the green light to and it might work out.

I don't think we'd see that upside here.

I actually love getting Thompson since he doesn't jack threes. Yeah AD can but he was a freaking PG until he was 17 and probably silently someone underrated as an all time great not far off Jabar/Bird/Jordan/Russel/Wilt etc etc.

If your Charlotte and chosing between the two by all means take Turner. But I like the Thompson fit. Also glad we got 2 vets the locker room should have some good balance. HUGE intangibles/leadership upgrade adding him and Teague for Hayward.

oh they’re coming


He started to put them up towards the end of the season and he didn’t do too bad (6-13 I think)

wouldn’t shock me if he averages 1 or 2 attempts a game with the Celtics offense. Kinda like Theis


Most importantly he will clean up the offensive glass and get better shooters more looks tho lol

 

[Gator Mike]

 

[Alicat]

Tatum signed long term. Love it

 

[CDJ]

Our king

 

[Troublesome 85]

At least 1 thing has gone right

 

[Deuce17]

At least 1 thing has gone right

I think they’ve gotten better the last few days

 

[McGarnagle]

Now I'm extended

 

[N o o d l e s]

Looks like you’ll be seeing the Lakers in the finals again. They’ve upgraded every single area of their roster

Rondo -> Schröder
Javale McGee/Dwight Howard -> Harrell/Gasol
Wes Matthews for fun

 

[JRull86]

Myles Turner is not a good player.

Yeah he's a big who can hit the 3, but he's is miserable in his own end outside of shot blocking (which they have in Williams btw). Shitty rebounder for his size as well.

But by all means, crucify Ainge because he didn't take on that player.

 

[CDJ]

Imagine Myles Turner guarding Embiid?


Bloodbath. Easy 30-15


edit: just went and did some research and yup lol


Games Played Between Joel Embiid and Myles Turner


An average of 28 and 12. He’s an 18 and 8 guy against Thompson. Myles is a much better defender though because #blockz


Embiid has had two 40-20 games against Myles. Myles is great! Celtics really missed out on a guy they never were gonna get in the first place because the pacers weren’t gonna come close to 4/120 because they are a sane franchise!



also this means nothing as it’s just 1 game but Thompson put up 25-13-3 blocks in his game against Turner this year, a Cleveland cavaliers win. So yeah- I don’t think turner is twice the player Thompson is as the salaries dictate. Not even close

 

[EvilDead]

Now I'm extended

I could have gone my whole life without reading that.

 

[CDJ]

Cavaliers: Grading Tristan Thompson’s 2019-20 play thus far.

A little write up from a Cavs perspective On TT’s defense. Not unlike Theis he doesn’t require touches on offense. A lot of his offense will be on put backs. He fits like a glove.

 

[EvilDead]

Myles Turner is not a good player.

Yeah he's a big who can hit the 3, but he's is miserable in his own end outside of shot blocking (which they have in Williams btw). Shitty rebounder for his size as well.

But by all means, crucify Ainge because he didn't take on that player.

The problem isn't that they didn't take on Myles Turner. If they got anything from Indiana I would be over the moon. It's the fact that Danny Ainge has allowed Gordon Hayward to go for absolutely nothing and is left holding the bag with a bunch of dead cap money. Unless they can get a trade exception from Charlotte, which is not likely to happen now thanks to Batum getting waived, Ainge mismanaged that asset and should face criticism for that alongside his mismanagement of the draft picks and not flipping that into a real piece. and I'm not talking about the two most recent guys, although the Oregon kid I am not sold on. I'm talking about the RJ Hunter and James Young's of the world.