Post-Game Talk (GBU): f*** off refs

[Aladyyn]

This team's needs go way beyond mere "depth" as we basically need to conjure up a whole top 6 line somehow.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Nothing Murray traded has amounted to anything to get worked up about with the exception of maybe the 1st for Robin Lehner. People will say ZOMG Colin White even tho we probably take Samsonov with that pick. The Lehner trade was bad from the get so it doesnt really matter but still. Nothing wrong with being aggressive.

I'll take a GM who actually isnt afraid to try and get to next level as opposed to one who just sits on his hands.

I'll take the GM who makes the most out of his free assets by drafting well, builds up a minor league affiliate and develops players properly, ultimately creating a healthy organization that can compete from year 5 to year 25, and doesn't need a "window" to make a run at the Cup.

 

[Leclerc]

Selling the future to win now (ie. 1sts for rentals) is a panic move for a team that is still a ways away from anything serious. No one wants to see them do that. Making a move for the sake of making a move and keeping the fans complacent is also panicking.

Minor moves bring minor returns. The team needs more than minor returns. Major moves are risky for a team in need of cheap, effective depth that four 1st rounders could easily contribute towards. The answer here is patience, both for the right moves to come around and for draft picks to be picked/developed. That 10 game win streak and the idea of playoffs really messed with fans expectations.

Mediocrity for the next 5 years it is. We'll keep drafting and shooting at stars while the New York Islanders and Carolina Hurricanes win playoff berths.

 

[Mattilaus]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move, team is still a year away. Dahlin is 18/19 for Christ sakes lol.

Yeah let's be bad for 5 more years, great plan!

This is the shit that makes this board so frustrating. Like what purpose do responses like this serve?

 

[Leclerc]

This is the **** that makes this board so frustrating. Like what purpose do responses like this serve?

Because it takes TIME to develop the majority of players. Not all of them come shooting out of a cannon dude. You see Casey Mittlestadt? Or Tage Thompson? Those take YEARS to develop.

 

[Mattilaus]

Because it takes TIME to develop the majority of players. Not all of them come shooting out of a cannon dude. You see Casey Mittlestadt? Or Tage Thompson? Those take YEARS to develop.

Cool, what does that have to do with what I said? Poster suggests we wait a year before making moves, response is "But I don't want to wait 5 years". What you have posted here as a response to me has literally nothing to do with what i've posted.

 

[Leclerc]

Cool, what does that have to do with what I said? Poster suggests we wait a year before making moves, response is "But I don't want to wait 5 years". What you have posted here as a response to me has literally nothing to do with what i've posted.

Sorry, misunderstood your convo.

 

[Dreakon13]

Mediocrity for the next 5 years it is. We'll keep drafting and shooting at stars while the New York Islanders and Carolina Hurricanes play to win.

You really want a '1st for rental' trade that badly, huh?

Because some one-and-done gesture now to keep you personally complacent, is more important than keeping Rochester healthy with talent and seeing those dividends pay off on the Sabres? Got it.

 

[Aladyyn]

Cool, what does that have to do with what I said? Poster suggests we wait a year before making moves, response is "But I don't want to wait 5 years". What you have posted here as a response to me has literally nothing to do with what i've posted.

We're always going to be just a year away.

 

[Leclerc]

You really want a '1st for rental' trade that badly, huh?

Because some one-and-done gesture now to keep you personally complacent, is more important than keeping Rochester healthy with talent and seeing those dividends pay off on the Sabres? Got it.

Who said take a 'one and done' player? That obviously isn't what Botterill has in the cards. They'll need to trade a prospect or two, but if they can land a young 2 or 3 center I think it'll solidify the core of the group. I understand they're not common in this market, but coming up to the trade deadline, I'd like to see some movement from the front office here.

 

[Dreakon13]

We're always going to be just a year away.

Unless we go and blow our wad on some big names. Maybe an elite winger like E. Kane, a top centerman in O'Reilly, a former AHL all-star goalie like Lehner and a bruiser top 4 defenseman that can skate like Zach Bogosian... on top of guys like Eichel and Reinhart and Risto and Girgensons... I don't honestly see how that plan could fail.

Oh wait...

 

[sabremike]

Maybe I've been misreading your stuff the last few weeks, but you seem to take it way to personally. It's cringy, just try to breath, it's only a game. A game we aren't even playing in, or professionally involved in.

If you were to actually believe that the Sabres as an organization had no legitimacy you'd look for them to trade Skinner, otherwise what premium UFA would sign with such an outfit?

The previous GM took everything that DR sold out of the team and got nothing productive for it. Nothing at all, Eichel and Reinhart were not proceeds from the sales, they were the team's draft picks. When Buffalo traded RoR and Kane they mulliganed the rebuild. But at least this time they're starting with Reinhart, Eichel and Dahlin. Before they only had Risto.

Was more referring to the team's credibility with us, the fans. After nearly a decade of horrible we finally get a glimmer of hope and just as fast it gets flushed right down the toilet. It's frustrating because we have a very real opportunity to do something special here that would benefit this organization in countless ways and right now it looks like we are not going to take advantage of it. And as for your first point I bring up an observation of a British football fan: "Nobody has ever arrainged for their ashes to be scattered in the aisles of a Tescos".

 

[Dreakon13]

Who said take a 'one and done' player? That obviously isn't what Botterill has in the cards. They'll need to trade a prospect or two, but if they can land a young 2 or 3 center I think it'll solidify the core of the group.

I don't think anyone would balk at a savvy hockey trade that gets a quality top 6 center locked up long term for minimal assets. I don't think those deals grow on tree's though... or that Botts is just sitting there stubbornly ignoring them.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don't think anyone would balk at a savvy hockey trade that gets a quality top 6 center locked up long term for minimal assets. I don't think those deals grow on tree's though... or that Botts is just sitting there stubbornly ignoring them.

Exactly.

It's not like Gratton-Briere trades are just sitting there waiting to happen.

 

[Aladyyn]

NHL GMs aren't that smart, there are plenty of underutilized players with good upside around the league. A guy like Pirri is on waivers every year and can give you 20 goals for cheap. Ho-Sang can't get playing time and we could probably get him for Sobotka or some other shitty vet Lou would love. Duclair keeps bouncing around the league etc. Botts' most significant in-season move has been claiming Remi Elie (passed over Jaskin for this guy btw). That's just not acceptable.

 

[Icicle]

Nothing Murray traded has amounted to anything to get worked up about with the exception of maybe the 1st for Robin Lehner. People will say ZOMG Colin White even tho we probably take Samsonov with that pick. The Lehner trade was bad from the get so it doesnt really matter but still. Nothing wrong with being aggressive.

I'll take a GM who actually isnt afraid to try and get to next level as opposed to one who just sits on his hands.

The situation were in today is exactly the consequence of being aggressive. The team had a total lack of depth at forward and defense because he splurged all the 1st and 2nd round picks we stocked up for guys that went nowhere. Remember Fasching? You’re telling me that was a good deal?

If you are having trouble seeing how much of a colossal failure Murray is then I can understand why you’re antsy for Botterill to do something now. But teams don’t trade away good players for scraps very often, and what we’re seeing is patience. The thing people derailed Botterill for not having with ROR—- showing that maybe there just was more to that deal than any of us will ever know.

 

[Icicle]

NHL GMs aren't that smart, there are plenty of underutilized players with good upside around the league. A guy like Pirri is on waivers every year and can give you 20 goals for cheap. Ho-Sang can't get playing time and we could probably get him for Sobotka or some other ****ty vet Lou would love. Duclair keeps bouncing around the league etc. Botts' most significant in-season move has been claiming Remi Elie (passed over Jaskin for this guy btw). That's just not acceptable.

You must really struggle every day wondering why you aren’t paid millions like these ‘idiots’ are for your statistical analyses.

The last GM we had had a penchant for numbers and completely ignored every other aspect of team building, and we all saw where that got him.

 

[sabremike]

One argument for not making trades I haven't seen yet that makes sense: Botts success rate with trades outside Skinner isn't good at all, so he could be very bad at making trades and his strength (we all hope and pray) is drafting. The situation right now sucks but I'm just going to try and hope it somehow works out because right now I have no choice.

 

[Dreakon13]

One argument for not making trades I haven't seen yet that makes sense: Botts success rate with trades outside Skinner isn't good at all, so he could be very bad at making trades and his strength (we all hope and pray) is drafting.

Trading players on a team that's DFL where almost everyone is struggling in some capacity (mentally, physically, chemistry, etc)... the return is almost always going to be underwhelming. You're dealing with virtually no leverage, and depending on how dire the situation is on the team (I'd say the Sabres situation has been pretty dire)... simply not dealing, keeping the status quo and 'seeing what happens' may be considered unacceptable.

I'd say Botts moves to try and break up the failing band that Murray put together are probably not a great indicator of his ability to trade in a vacuum. It's no surprise his best trades involved picks and prospects leaving, the two things not directly tied to the Sabres the last 3+ years.

 

[DapperCam]

This is now a thing? Someone should have told Vegas.

I do think playoff experience can be valuable. It’s a totally different game in terms of intensity and physicality. Penalties have to be egregious to get called, some goalies go into god-mode, etc.

The idea is, in a year where we are actual contenders we don’t want to get bounced in the first round because none of our young guys have experienced it before.

- Eichel
- Reinhart
- Skinner (assuming we retain him)
- Risto
- Dahlin

All of our best players have zero combined playoff games.

 

[Reddawg]

I do think playoff experience can be valuable. It’s a totally different game in terms of intensity and physicality. Penalties have to be egregious to get called, some goalies go into god-mode, etc.

The idea is, in a year where we are actual contenders we don’t want to get bounced in the first round because none of our young guys have experienced it before.

- Eichel
- Reinhart
- Skinner (assuming we retain him)
- Risto
- Dahlin

All of our best players have zero combined playoff games.

That's true, but just adding guys who have been to the playoffs isn't going to get it done either. Has to be the right talent, the right fit at the right position for the right price. We have guys like Scandella and Sheary and Okposo, Sobotka, Pominville, Beaulieu, Hutton, even Hunwick have playoff games under their belt. Except for Dahlin, all of those young guys are veterans at this point...they all have more than 250 games experience and they know how to get up for big games. It will be good to get into the playoffs this year so everyone in the current core group knows what that's all about.

 

[Beerz]

The situation were in today is exactly the consequence of being aggressive. The team had a total lack of depth at forward and defense because he splurged all the 1st and 2nd round picks we stocked up for guys that went nowhere. Remember Fasching? You’re telling me that was a good deal?

If you are having trouble seeing how much of a colossal failure Murray is then I can understand why you’re antsy for Botterill to do something now. But teams don’t trade away good players for scraps very often, and what we’re seeing is patience. The thing people derailed Botterill for not having with ROR—- showing that maybe there just was more to that deal than any of us will ever know.

No the Fasching deal was not a good deal. That deal and the Lehner deal are the two moves I didnt like when they happened. I dont want those deals...not pushing for a magic bean for magic bean deal.

It's a little late for anything to happen now in my opinion but I wanted Botterill to bring up some Anerks to see what we had. Evaluate and see if trades needed to happen. Then we could of traded and added some quality middle six players if need be. Nobody has talked about selling the farm but something should of been done shortly after the streak. Now we have blown our cushion and is probably too late.

Jack hadn't taken "the next step" when Murray added Kane and ROR .. now he has .. it's a completely different situation now.

 

[Gordo21]

No the Fasching deal was not a good deal. That deal and the Lehner deal are the two moves I didnt like when they happened. I dont want those deals...not pushing for a magic bean for magic bean deal.

It's a little late for anything to happen now in my opinion but I wanted Botterill to bring up some Anerks to see what we had. Evaluate and see if trades needed to happen. Then we could of traded and added some quality middle six players if need be. Nobody has talked about selling the farm but something should of been done shortly after the streak. Now we have blown our cushion and is probably too late.

Jack hadn't taken "the next step" when Murray added Kane and ROR .. now he has .. it's a completely different situation now.

But lets be honest, Dahlin needs to take the next step now.

And Mittelstadt and Thompson.

Team still young

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

People think sports are like video games. You don't get magical XP to spend on your character for making the playoffs and losing in the first round.

The reason some teams enter the playoffs, get bounced, and then return to do better; is because it tracks the general progress of their star players as they mature. It's wishing for correlation to confirm a causation you hope is occurring.I

I do think a trade for a center is coming, and it could involve Ristolinen. If the organization thinks they can roll with Dahlin-Bogo-Pilut-McCabe as the top pairs Rasmus will be the most valuable odd-man out.

 

[Beerz]

I'll take the GM who makes the most out of his free assets by drafting well, builds up a minor league affiliate and develops players properly, ultimately creating a healthy organization that can compete from year 5 to year 25, and doesn't need a "window" to make a run at the Cup.

All teams have a window" ... it's the age of the cap. There is a balance that has to be made. Nobody is advocating for the Rangers of the early to mid 2000s where you completely trade your cupboards bare year after year.