TSN: Obvious despair for the Ottawa Senators

Larionov

Registered User
Feb 9, 2005
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Ottawa, ON
Apologies if this point has been made already, but the last #1 overall who helped his team to a Cup was Kane in 2007. Would I have liked to win first overall? Absolutely, but as Connor McDavid proves every year, one guy doesn't make your team. The fact that we get two picks in the top five of a loaded draft is absolutely massive - it's that second high pick that is going to make all the difference. Lafreniere is great, absolutely, but he also isn't quite McDavid or Crosby. It's entirely possible that Byfield and/or Stutzle have comparable pro careers to Lafreniere. (If you're drafting on pure potential, Byfield is the one who just oozes it - 6'4" centres who skate well and have soft hands are like unicorns.)
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,712
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What happens with Logan Brown?

Good Question. Hopefully he makes it. This would be a killer lineup, PP would be #1 in the NHL. Would have the biggest Centers 1-4 in the entire NHL. Winning

Brady - Byfield - Batherson
Duke - L. Brown - C. White
Formenton - Pinto - C Brown
Balcers - Paul - Kastelic

Chabot - Zaitsev
Sanderson- JBD
Brannstrom - Thomson

D. Ayers
Sogaard
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,712
6,797
Apologies if this point has been made already, but the last #1 overall who helped his team to a Cup was Kane in 2007. Would I have liked to win first overall? Absolutely, but as Connor McDavid proves every year, one guy doesn't make your team. The fact that we get two picks in the top five of a loaded draft is absolutely massive - it's that second high pick that is going to make all the difference. Lafreniere is great, absolutely, but he also isn't quite McDavid or Crosby. It's entirely possible that Byfield and/or Stutzle have comparable pro careers to Lafreniere. (If you're drafting on pure potential, Byfield is the one who just oozes it - 6'4" centres who skate well and have soft hands are like unicorns.)

sidney Crosby?
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,467
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Apologies if this point has been made already, but the last #1 overall who helped his team to a Cup was Kane in 2007. Would I have liked to win first overall? Absolutely, but as Connor McDavid proves every year, one guy doesn't make your team. The fact that we get two picks in the top five of a loaded draft is absolutely massive - it's that second high pick that is going to make all the difference. Lafreniere is great, absolutely, but he also isn't quite McDavid or Crosby. It's entirely possible that Byfield and/or Stutzle have comparable pro careers to Lafreniere. (If you're drafting on pure potential, Byfield is the one who just oozes it - 6'4" centres who skate well and have soft hands are like unicorns.)
Over that time frame, the only team to win a cup without a 1st or 2nd overall pick playing for them was the Red Wings in 2008.
 

Larionov

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Feb 9, 2005
4,392
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Ottawa, ON
sidney Crosby?

Crosby was 2005, before Kane. Also, Crosby is a centre, whereas Lafreniere is a winger. Sidney Crosby is Sidney Crosby - he's one of the greatest players to play the game, so he's in a different category. I'd put McDavid in another category as well.
 
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Pavlikovsky

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May 31, 2013
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Lots of push for Rossi at #5 in Ottawa - I believe matchups win games (we were better then the Leafs in every series but they just matched up so well against us and had the better goalie)

having Rossi as a top 2 C, ona line with Tkachuks suddenly there is no size and net front mismatch. Put Pinto and Tkachuk on a line and that’s a huge size mismatch for a team like MTL.

I hope Ottawa gets skill with size, Byfield obviously creates so many matchup problems if you roll him out there with Brady.

so not into drafting Rossi even if the skill is there

Disagree, time and time again short players have show size doesn't matter if you have the skill to make up for it, P. Kane, Point, Marchand, Krug, Debrincat, Gaudreau, St-Louis and many more have been elite players and big big parts of their teams despite being 5'9/5'10. Boston a team renown for "grit and toughness" has 2 of the best short players on their team.

Not even mentioning our fan favorite Pageau who didn't care what size his opponent was it made no difference to his game.
 
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Silky Johnson

I wish you all the bad things in life.
Mar 9, 2015
2,054
2,181
London, UK
Good Question. Hopefully he makes it. This would be a killer lineup, PP would be #1 in the NHL. Would have the biggest Centers 1-4 in the entire NHL. Winning

Brady - Byfield - Batherson
Duke - L. Brown - C. White
Formenton - Pinto - C Brown
Balcers - Paul - Kastelic

Chabot - Zaitsev
Sanderson- JBD
Brannstrom - Thomson

D. Ayers
Sogaard

Norris doesn't make this team?
 
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Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,712
6,797
Morris doesn't make this team?

makes you wonder if They get Byfield that one full year in the NHL for Logan Brown on the PP making hi-lite reels would boost his stock to make him an asset we can trade fork value.

you hope Brown makes it because the eye test tells you he has an unreal skill set, Then he just kinda disappears and isn’t a multi dimensional player that has a personality to impose himself.

spezza when he was a kid said give aways were Part of his game, and in the playoffs Tampa literally had a guy follow him from behind waiting for those drop passes to no one. He cleaned it up, and I’m a Spezza fan, but you wonder if Brown has that same “gotta take the good with the bad” mentality
 
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SAK11

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Oct 4, 2011
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Over that time frame, the only team to win a cup without a 1st or 2nd overall pick playing for them was the Red Wings in 2008.

St. Louis last year. They did have 3rd, 4th, and 5th overall picks, though.
 

SAK11

Registered User
Oct 4, 2011
1,632
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Apologies if this point has been made already, but the last #1 overall who helped his team to a Cup was Kane in 2007. Would I have liked to win first overall? Absolutely, but as Connor McDavid proves every year, one guy doesn't make your team. The fact that we get two picks in the top five of a loaded draft is absolutely massive - it's that second high pick that is going to make all the difference. Lafreniere is great, absolutely, but he also isn't quite McDavid or Crosby. It's entirely possible that Byfield and/or Stutzle have comparable pro careers to Lafreniere. (If you're drafting on pure potential, Byfield is the one who just oozes it - 6'4" centres who skate well and have soft hands are like unicorns.)

I don't think McDavid not having a Cup yet proves anything. He's been in the league for 5 years, playing for the most dysfunctional franchise in the NHL. I'd bet on Edmonton being contenders for the foreseeable future with McDavid and Draisaitl there. Just like Malkin and Crosby with Pittsburgh, or Ovechkin and Backstrom in Washington (it took them until Ovie's 13th year to win). Winning it all is incredibly hard and involves plenty of luck, too. But over and over again, teams with great players, oftentimes picked extremely high in the draft, win. So of course picking 1st doesn't guarantee you a Cup, it just more often than not gives you a great player, which is necessary to win it all.

We have to hit on picks 3 and 5 and that takes more work versus picking 1st and having a much more sure-thing in Laf. But if we hit on these picks, that gives us 3rd, 4th and 5th overall picks on our roster growing together. That's a great start.
 

flying v 604

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Sep 4, 2014
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As much as I know it's not a very useful contribution to the conversation, the NHL can go f*** itself. This is not what the draft was meant to be. A team that that's already good enough to be making the playoffs will be having a 12.5% chance at the number 1 pick. I'm pissed right now, but I'm also reserving some of my arbitrary anger to target specifically at that team when it happens.
In what world are the Habs Hawks and some other play in teams playoff ready? The play ins are not the playoffs this result was no different then 2017 when the flyers went from 13th to 2nd or in the same draft the Avs who just had the worst season in history, lost all 3 lottos like the Nucks did and picked 4th the Nucks picked 5th.
The nucks have lost every lottery the team has ever had, at least the Sens get a top 3 pick that based on odds would have been 6th.
The lottery sucks but fans that think the Sens best odds we're 2nd and 3rd best because of standings, we're setting themselves up for dissapoitment.
 
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flying v 604

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Sep 4, 2014
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The draft lottery allows the NHL to somewhat control which teams get massive help.

This means it is probably "good" for the League in that it allows them to help the rich: make sure Toronto stays at first overall in 2016, throw a bone to the Rangers/Chicago last year and give Lafrenière to Montreal (as long as the season isn't cancelled and they lose to Pittsburgh).

Since the rich teams drive a lot of the business of the NHL, I'm sure they are pleased about being able to somewhat control these things.
Come on dude the draft is not rigged, Tupac is dead and Kurt wasn't killed by his wife.
You actually think owners would allow it? Nevermind the fact that the people who oversee it have far bigger clients then the NHL and wouldn't risk it.
Please explain how the owners here in Van would be onboard with never ever winning the draft. Since 2016 every lottery we've been in we have lost. This during a time our team was terrible and could have used a top 3 pick which they haven't had since Henrick in 1999. Maybe now some pro-tankers will realize this system makes it pointless.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
Good Question. Hopefully he makes it. This would be a killer lineup, PP would be #1 in the NHL. Would have the biggest Centers 1-4 in the entire NHL. Winning

Brady - Byfield - Batherson
Duke - L. Brown - C. White
Formenton - Pinto - C Brown
Balcers - Paul - Kastelic

Chabot - Zaitsev
Sanderson- JBD
Brannstrom - Thomson

D. Ayers
Sogaard

Colin White as 2nd line RW? If you hope him to be good again, he has to play Center. Josh Norris is probably already better than White, so he beats him easily for a 2nd line spot IMO.

I'm not sure this lineup is for which season but if Zaitsev is still better than JBD and Thomson, we're in big trouble, unless it's next season?

So if we pick Byfield and Sanderson (not sure why they wouldn't pick Raymond or Drysdale at #5, since at least one is going to be available, unless Kings/Wings pick them but in that case we get BOTH Byfield and Stutzle wow), this is what it should look like, assuming it's 2021-22

I have Duclair voluntarily on the 3rd line because I'm trying to use as a 3rd line threat ala Hoffman. For Logan Brown to be effective enough, he needs to be able to express his playmaking skills. A speed merchant and an all-around skilled player could be what he needs

Tkachuk-Byfield-Norris
Formenton-Brown-Batherson
Duclair-Pinto-Balcers
Paul-White-Brown

Chabot - Brannstrom
Sanderson- JBD
Wolanin - Thomson

I'm still hoping we get Stutzle/Byfield and our best forward available at #5

Also, Sogaard needs time to develop, Daccord/Hogberg and even Mandolese/Gustvasson should play in the NHL before him

And who the hell is Ayers?
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,380
2,545
In what world are the Habs Hawks and some other play in teams playoff ready? The play ins are not the playoffs this result was no different then 2017 when the flyers went from 13th to 2nd or in the same draft the Avs who just had the worst season in history, lost all 3 lottos like the Nucks did and picked 4th the Nucks picked 5th.
The nucks have lost every lottery the team has ever had, at least the Sens get a top 3 pick that based on odds would have been 6th.
The lottery sucks but fans that think the Sens best odds we're 2nd and 3rd best because of standings, we're setting themselves up for dissapoitment.

We had the 2nd and 3rd pick pre-lottery, in what world do you get 6th from that? You know what, wait, never mind, if I want the opinion of some random Canucks fan I'll come to your board looking for it
 

Larionov

Registered User
Feb 9, 2005
4,392
2,082
Ottawa, ON
Maybe now some pro-tankers will realize this system makes it pointless.

Amen. Throughout the season I made the point that cheering for the tank was ridiculous, but it didn't matter how many times you pointed out what the odds actually were - there was an entire thread here dedicated to fans hoping for their own team to lose. I'll never understand that if I live to be 1000. They forget about the year that Coyotes and Sabres fans were openly cheering down the stretch for the tank, only to watch the Leafs win the right to take Matthews. Or this year, when Detroit made the maximum drop despite being dead last by a mile. The message is clear - the NHL does not want teams even entertaining the notion of tanking for a pick. My God, can you imagine how awful some of the lineups being dressed in March would be if the path to number one overall was easier?
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,340
59,233
Ottawa, ON
Amen. Throughout the season I made the point that cheering for the tank was ridiculous, but it didn't matter how many times you pointed out what the odds actually were - there was an entire thread here dedicated to fans hoping for their own team to lose. I'll never understand that if I live to be 1000. They forget about the year that Coyotes and Sabres fans were openly cheering down the stretch for the tank, only to watch the Leafs win the right to take Matthews. Or this year, when Detroit made the maximum drop despite being dead last by a mile. The message is clear - the NHL does not want teams even entertaining the notion of tanking for a pick. My God, can you imagine how awful some of the lineups being dressed in March would be if the path to number one overall was easier?

The trick is to lose and yet still make strides as an organization.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,227
10,450
Yukon
Amen. Throughout the season I made the point that cheering for the tank was ridiculous, but it didn't matter how many times you pointed out what the odds actually were - there was an entire thread here dedicated to fans hoping for their own team to lose. I'll never understand that if I live to be 1000. They forget about the year that Coyotes and Sabres fans were openly cheering down the stretch for the tank, only to watch the Leafs win the right to take Matthews. Or this year, when Detroit made the maximum drop despite being dead last by a mile. The message is clear - the NHL does not want teams even entertaining the notion of tanking for a pick. My God, can you imagine how awful some of the lineups being dressed in March would be if the path to number one overall was easier?
On the flip side of your comment, some of us see little to no benefit to winning meaningless games and would still prefer the reduced benefits of the new lottery system. It's about the big picture. They weren't getting spanked and the effort was there, that's enough for me.

It still guarantees you drop less the higher you are and the Senators are a team severely lacking in high end talent that needs to draft as high as possible.

If us and the Sharks didn't tank, we could be looking at much lower picks, which could very well be the difference to turning it around. Drafting two players 3rd and 5th is drastically different than say 9th and 11th or something.

The lottery results stunk, but I'm still glad they finished as low as they did last year.
 

Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
8,224
4,965
Sudbury
Despair...whatever, lol.

If we end up with Byfield and Raymond this team is ready to go up front. No holes imo, and when you add them to our current crop of prospects we might be as deep a team as we've ever been in our modern history.

Lets go 2-3 years out from now, if the draft goes our way this is entirely possible.

Duclair-Byfield-Raymond
Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Formenton-White-Pinto

Balcers/L. Brown/(4) 2nd round picks ect in case the above doesnt work out as planned, and then add C. Brown, Paul and Chlapik for the bottom 6 roles. Regardless thats a group of forwards that are absolutely good enough to win imo, provided the rest of the team is complete.
 
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Cosmix

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Jul 24, 2011
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I’m honestly not disappointed at all.

Winning 1st overall would have been best case scenario. But the next best thing was keeping the higher pick in the top 3, which we did, and keeping the lower pick in the top 5, which we did.

We’re walking away with Byfield/Stutzle and Raymond/Drysdale. We’re going to be very, very happy for years to come.

To me, the best would be getting the first and second picks, and the next best thing would be getting 2nd and third picks.

I think the current lottery system is bad for teams that are bad. I agree with Brian Burke that the system does not work right if the worst teams in the league cannot get the top picks in the draft.
 
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