Observations XXVI full ** v. XXVII started

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Porter Stoutheart

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If it was just this season, it'd be one thing. But questioning the resolve of the players is based on more than just the last game, or just this season's overall disappointment. The last 2 playoffs most of the team just went through the motions. Watch any other playoff series and how the intensity goes up a notch, then watch our guys keep playing like it's a Sunday afternoon in November.

There has been a lot to question the coaching staff about as well. But it's like so many of the things with this team... you can't point fingers in just one direction and have confidence that there is just one change that is going to be the magic bullet. Changing a coaching staff that clearly had no answers was one necessary step. One variable accounted for in the set of equations. But we still have more unknowns, still a highly indeterminate set. It's not wrong to question the resolve or the ability of the players. Until they prove otherwise.
 

Armourboy

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The effort level from the guys was fine until the year after the Presidents trophy, since then its appeared to go down each year.

Some of it is on the players, but I think much of it is the fact that as time has gone on the coaches fix for everything was just to do X harder. I think especially the forwards, got tired of a system that ran through the Dmen, where they spent as much time playing the Dman spot as they did forward.

I think the reason the Bonino line has done pretty well is because oddly enough they are just getting in there and all going to the net so the Dmen tend to stay high more like you would see under Trotz. Like Smith said the other night against Anaheim, The difference in the 1st and 3rd period for us was we just stopped worrying about some system and just went out and played hockey.

I think what's happened in a lot of cases is the forwards are so concerned about covering for a Dman or getting it back to a Dman that not only has it killed creativity but also a willingness to get in there and fight for it. I think they got tired of doing all of that work just to send it back out to a Dman.

I mean Fiala caught a ton of flak, and I was one of them handing it out, but I think his comments about playing here vs Minnesota weren't that far off the mark and is probably why you see forward production here always drop for no real reason.
 
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LCPreds

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I think keeping pretty much the entire team together is part of the problem. These guys have become too comfortable with each other. Maybe changing out Lavy for Hynes will cause enough of a ripple to wake them up but who knows.
 

NoNecksCurse

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I think keeping pretty much the entire team together is part of the problem. These guys have become too comfortable with each other. Maybe changing out Lavy for Hynes will cause enough of a ripple to wake them up but who knows.
me and legionnaire had same argument argument about the bottom 6 when everything was good.

now i would look at the top 6 more than the bottom. i like trenin and even Blackwell to step up in the bottom 6 roles.

i would shop forsberg and johansen.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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me and legionnaire had same argument argument about the bottom 6 when everything was good.

now i would look at the top 6 more than the bottom. i like trenin and even Blackwell to step up in the bottom 6 roles.

i would shop forsberg and johansen.
Maybe "shop" is a bit extreme. Or maybe it's just semantics. But it's increasingly rare to see straight up player trades anymore. Weber/Subban kind of fell into Poile's lap, but I wonder how likely it is he could find a reasonable trade for Forsberg or especially Johansen anymore. These days it's more "be willing to listen". But if you're actually looking to move somebody it seems like you get younger players or prospects or picks or cap dumps as the trade commodities that are more likely to move around. :dunno:
 
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LCPreds

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Maybe "shop" is a bit extreme. Or maybe it's just semantics. But it's increasingly rare to see straight up player trades anymore. Weber/Subban kind of fell into Poile's lap, but I wonder how likely it is he could find a reasonable trade for Forsberg or especially Johansen anymore.

FF9 for Seth Jones.
 

LCPreds

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Because we lack a #1 defenseman or because we have so many forwards similar to Forsberg?

Hey, we keep talking about how terrible our defense has been and how irresponsible our forwards seem to be. That seems to help shore up both problems. Not saying I would do it but it's a 1:1 player trade that might actually happen (in response to the post).
 

nine_inch_fang

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Scott Stevens did a segment on NHL Now about the Preds horrible man on man defense and I've been trying to find it, with no luck, but I did find the linked video from last playoffs. This shows a lot of the same problems that come from trying too hard but not being coached to fix them. If anyone can find the video clip please share it because they also talk about how the confusion and frustration created from that mess of a defense can ruin the confidence of the team and that can seep into other parts of the game.

 
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Armourboy

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The Duchene radio interview between periods was pretty eye opening.

They have already changed the defensive system ( more of a traditional zone ) and the breakout. The goal is to get the puck up to the forwards as quickly as possible and let them go do their job.

Duchene said it was a heck of a lot of fun to play.

Hall Gill said the old system they wanted the D to bring the puck up but it would often leave the forwards just stuck waiting at the blue line and the forwards would have zero speed in the zone.
 
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Armourboy

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Also things to keep in mind, the transition to a new system is not going to be smooth. As guys get tired they will have a tendency to revert back to bad habits and an old system.

It's the reason the Hynes timeout call was a good thing to see. It gave him a chance to settle them down and remind them of what they should be doing.

The key is are you seeing things go the right direction, and even though it's a small sample size it seems to be good overall.

I suspect with them wanting to push the play up to the forwards you will see guys like Weber play and look a bit better.
 

nine_inch_fang

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Well and plays like that stretch pass to Arvi you should see more of again as well.
I'm not a betting man but I'd have a hard time not putting money against this. Short controlled passes out of the zone with support then explode through the neutral zone into the offensive zone is going to be the norm for this team....at least I hope so.

And also, getting rid of that ridiculous play that is a Dman standing behind the net for 20+ seconds only to try to make a stupid pass to a winger at the far blueline that is completely covered that turns into an icing or worst cast picked off and winds up in the back of our net.

Long stretch plays should be a rarity not something you are basing your season on.
 

Armourboy

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I'm not a betting man but I'd have a hard time not putting money against this. Short controlled passes out of the zone with support then explode through the neutral zone into the offensive zone is going to be the norm for this team....at least I hope so.

And also, getting rid of that ridiculous play that is a Dman standing behind the net for 20+ seconds only to try to make a stupid pass to a winger at the far blueline that is completely covered that turns into an icing or worst cast picked off and winds up in the back of our net.

Long stretch plays should be a rarity not something you are basing your season on.
Most of the Arvi type ones were where they would lay it out for him and let him go get it, mostly a transitional counterattack. The key to it is you will now have Dmen looking to make passes and push things forward, where as this season it's been all about making the Dmen push it up to the red line.

The longer Lavi and McCarthy were here the less creative guys became and the more predictable the whole team was. It made us very easy to play against. It's why Hynes is stressing playing more towards the middle, everything we did this season was around the boards.
 

nine_inch_fang

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Most of the Arvi type ones were where they would lay it out for him and let him go get it, mostly a transitional counterattack. The key to it is you will now have Dmen looking to make passes and push things forward, where as this season it's been all about making the Dmen push it up to the red line.

The longer Lavi and McCarthy were here the less creative guys became and the more predictable the whole team was. It made us very easy to play against. It's why Hynes is stressing playing more towards the middle, everything we did this season was around the boards.
I see this a little differently.
Laviolette's system has been the long bomb pass always and everytime and that means the forwards, or even the dmen in that man on man defense, would fly the zone hoping for that long pass that gets them behind the opposition. The downfall here is players forgot that playing defense is a 5 man team game and unfortunately even then ****ing defensemen forgot about that.
 

Armourboy

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I see this a little differently.
Laviolette's system has been the long bomb pass always and everytime and that means the forwards, or even the dmen in that man on man defense, would fly the zone hoping for that long pass that gets them behind the opposition. The downfall here is players forgot that playing defense is a 5 man team game and unfortunately even then ****ing defensemen forgot about that.
Dunno Hal Gill said the system they were using was to have the Dmen carry it up ice so I think the long bomb pretty much went out the door in Lavi's system. That said if you are pushing the puck up quickly it should still create opportunities for plays like that.

Also Duchene said tonight playing that man on man D system sucked as a Center and the new one is so much more natural because your job as a center is to support the puck and it's hard to do that when you are chasing one guy around the ice.
 

nine_inch_fang

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Sure, it was a mix of long bomb hope or someone on defense could do something. So the forwards only cared about the long bomb? Gotta get your numbers from somewhere?
 
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