Observations XXIV

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Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
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a few coaching candidates and what they're currently up to if Laviolette and co. get let go;

Rikard Grönborg - leaving the Swedish national team after this years World Championships
Paul MacLean - no idea
Sheldon Keefe - head coach of the Marlies
Lindy Ruff - assistant coach for the Rangers
Mike Yeo - let go by the Blues earlier this season
Marc Crawford - Senators interim head coach
Michel Therrien - works for RDS
Darryl Sutter - willing to sign with a contender or a rebuilding team
Randy Carlyle - let go by the Ducks earlier this season
Doug Weight - senior advisor for the Islanders
Glen Gulutzan - assistant coach in Edmonton
Willie Desjardins - hired and then let go by the Kings earlier this season
Phil Housley - let go by the Sabres earlier this season
Dean Evason - former Admirals head coach, now in Minnesota as an assistant coach
Lane Lambert - associate coach for the Islanders
Guy Boucher - let go by the Senators earlier this season
Scott Sandelin - coaches the University of Minnesota-Duluth in the NCAA
Dave Tippett - senior advisor to Seattle's NHL expansion group, not planning to coach them
DJ Smith - assistant coach in Toronto
Jack Capuano - assistant coach in Florida
Bob Hartley - coaching the Avangard Omsk in the KHL
Todd Nelson - assistant coach in Dallas
Dallas Eakins - likely signing with the Ducks, coaches their AHL affiliate
Dale Hunter - head coach of the London Knights
Dan Bylsma - assistant coach in Detroit
Ralph Krueger - left his position in Southampton and has interest in returning to the NHL.
John Stevens - let go by the Kings earlier this season
Tony Granato - head coach of for the University of Wisconsin
Kevin Dineen - former assistant coach for the Blackhawks, fired earlier this season

bolded the one's I'd be most interested in.
I firmly believe this is the real key for us. For all that we'll distract ourselves talking about trades involving Turris or Ellis/Subban this is really what will make or break our window.

I thought Krueger was interested more in the front office areas, so I don't think I put him on my list, but generally speaking this highlights more of the younger/progressive element of the options again. Hitting a homerun on finding the next coach is really the key to me.
 

NoNecksCurse

#164303
Oct 19, 2011
13,236
4,958
i think the biggest thing for me is special teams compared to last year. our transition game has suffered without suter and i think that's the biggest reason our forwards haven't been getting on the scoresheet.

when i say nothing like last year, im not referring to stats and standings, which you have good points .. im talking on what this group can achieve.. i really thought we had a chance at the cup last year. this year ill be surprised if we make the playoffs. this team has made me a fool many times before.. but they are gonna have to find a gear i haven't seen yet.. and that means clicking on all cylinders and not excelling at one facet while sucking miserably in the other. i still think our offense is inept but the defense and pekka have truly been worrisome. i don't remember feeling such low confidence in pekka last year.

I hear what you are saying, but again, I am comparing us to last year at the 30 game mark, not the end of the season. Did you think we were a cup contender when we were 12-11-4 and in the bottom half of the league in offense?? I don't think anyone did- I know I didn't.

I do agree with you about Rinne- not nearly as confident as years past.

march 24th, 2013.

we went onto draft 4th overall..


-- anyways I'm not always that negative and I'm not beating my chest about being right. my posts can be looked up. i would like to call myself realistic. this team is cup or bust! and they busted big time!
 

NoNecksCurse

#164303
Oct 19, 2011
13,236
4,958
this season has already been a success to me. i think the Sharks will be in the Stanley cup finals. not sure if they win it but we have a knack for being eliminated by whoever wins it all. we just don't match up well with the Sharks. don't think we ever really have all that well. it's gonna take a great showing by whoever is in net or our top guys are gonna have to have a series of their life here on out. forsberg, Neal, ryjo, weber, josi, and we need Wilson and smith to produce and back in the line up. that kind of goes without saying though. I'm proud of this team. hopefully we can come out with an edge today and get out of the tank with the series tied and who knows what could happen.

haha! i really am proud of this team. we have already eliminated a Stanley cup favorite by winning 3 of 4 on the road. I would have never guessed that in a million years. if we could find a way to get by San Jose, I really believe it's 50/50 to beat the stars or blues. neither team scares me. if we could pull off another slight upset this round, I really think we have a great shot at winning the west. I just really hate the match up with the Sharks. they have giving us fits for years ever since jumbo joe came from Boston.

this was after we beat ANA in the first round and were about to play SJ where lost in 7.. SJ did go on to win the west. may 1, 2016.

my point is really that I get a rep that a lot of times isn't fair. I just call it like i see it. i don't take it personal.

it's now okay to be negative though so everything should be rosey :DD
 

NoNecksCurse

#164303
Oct 19, 2011
13,236
4,958
I'm trying to keep some perspective this morning. One thing comes to mind.

We've kind of seen this coming all season and overall it just didn't really feel right this year.

Now, imagine being a Tampa Bay fan.
that was a perfect storm with CBJ and TB.

that said, i would probably be banned from the boards if that happened to us.
 

Legionnaire11

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
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I'm not as mad this morning as I should be, probably because this result was mostly expected.

Instead, I'm probably more hopeful that Poile will make some moves over the summer. It doesn't have to be a firesale and rebuild, but there's something wrong with this team and a lot of players and coaches should be worried. 3-4 key changes can really do wonders for this team.

We're small, which works if you're very fast and highly skilled. We're slow, which is okay if you're strong and highly skilled.

So I think speed is the easiest thing to address, a couple of forwards and a defenseman with real speed would change the team dynamic quite a bit without a total roster overhaul.
 

Pred303

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Oct 8, 2004
7,881
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one last post before leaving.

going to be a lot of hot takes on this season for the next few days and weeks, understandable based on the underperformance and disappointments.

Trying to be hockey rational in an irrational time, i think here's the changes we need to see;

1) Lavy won't be fired, honestly he shouldn't be. Not yet. Now if we come out very poorly the first half of next seson then it really becomes a possibility.
2) The assistant coaches should be gone. Both of them. If not at least one of them has to pay the price for these failures (because you cann't fire all the players).
3) An assistant that can coach up the PP is obviously a must have.
4) Fabbro has shown he is ready to move up to a 2nd pair right defenseman, which makes Ellis or Subban expendable and tradeable.
5) Ellis is the weakest link in the top 4.
6) Subban is the next weakest link, but the one you could get more for in a trade.
7) One of these two guys has to be bundled with Turris for a better 2nd line centerman. Almost have to do this.
8) Duchene would be the perfect 2nd line centerman for this team.
9) you give Granlund another chance at RW with a better 2nd line centerman and maybe Tolvanen on that LW.
10) If you cann't get an improvement at center, you go for a better 2nd line winger and start Granlund as the 2nd line centerman next year.
11) in general our bottom two lines are fine. them being mediocre offensive players only becomes a liability when your second line cann't score any better than they can.
12) I think trading Ellis/Subban makes us become a less blueline oriented team. which i think is exactly the direction we need to go. Our offense needs to run from the forwards out to the blueline, instead of from the blueline down to the forwards both even strength and espeically on the PP.
13) By being counted on for less offense, our defense can focus more on their true job, playing defense.
14) Saros/Rinne need to split time evenly next year. With Saros possibly taking over as number one the last half of the year if things go as we hope.
15) Really think Arvidsson can be moved down to the 2nd line RW and either Granlund/new RW/ Smith could be moved up. His offense comes from himself.
16) Bonino is a fine 3rd line centerman. He needs offensive help on the wing.
17) Boyle. Don't mind if we bring him back.
18) a bottom 6 of Bonino, Watson, Sissons, Boyle, Grimaldi, Smith, Jarnkrok isn't a problem. In fact that's a pretty damn good bottom 6.
19) Top 6 players HAVE to be added.
 

PredsV82

Rest easy, 303, and thank you.
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Aug 13, 2007
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Poile did a great job assembling and making this team a lot better. The fact that every player who has arrived here in the last couple of years has underperformed is on the coaching staff.

This times 1000. There are enough data points to support the hypothesis that our coaches cannot get acquired players to play up to their potential.

As good as he has been here, Johansen has not been as good as he was with Columbus.

Turris isnt as good as he was in Ottawa or Arizona.

Bonino came here as a borderline 2/3 C and now plays like a 4C.

And our defensemen, most notably Ellis, have all stagnated or regressed since Housley left.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,887
11,267
one last post before leaving.

going to be a lot of hot takes on this season for the next few days and weeks, understandable based on the underperformance and disappointments.

Trying to be hockey rational in an irrational time, i think here's the changes we need to see;

1) Lavy won't be fired, honestly he shouldn't be. Not yet. Now if we come out very poorly the first half of next seson then it really becomes a possibility.
2) The assistant coaches should be gone. Both of them. If not at least one of them has to pay the price for these failures (because you cann't fire all the players).
3) An assistant that can coach up the PP is obviously a must have.
4) Fabbro has shown he is ready to move up to a 2nd pair right defenseman, which makes Ellis or Subban expendable and tradeable.
5) Ellis is the weakest link in the top 4.
6) Subban is the next weakest link, but the one you could get more for in a trade.
7) One of these two guys has to be bundled with Turris for a better 2nd line centerman. Almost have to do this.
8) Duchene would be the perfect 2nd line centerman for this team.
9) you give Granlund another chance at RW with a better 2nd line centerman and maybe Tolvanen on that LW.
10) If you cann't get an improvement at center, you go for a better 2nd line winger and start Granlund as the 2nd line centerman next year.
11) in general our bottom two lines are fine. them being mediocre offensive players only becomes a liability when your second line cann't score any better than they can.
12) I think trading Ellis/Subban makes us become a less blueline oriented team. which i think is exactly the direction we need to go. Our offense needs to run from the forwards out to the blueline, instead of from the blueline down to the forwards both even strength and espeically on the PP.
13) By being counted on for less offense, our defense can focus more on their true job, playing defense.
14) Saros/Rinne need to split time evenly next year. With Saros possibly taking over as number one the last half of the year if things go as we hope.
15) Really think Arvidsson can be moved down to the 2nd line RW and either Granlund/new RW/ Smith could be moved up. His offense comes from himself.
16) Bonino is a fine 3rd line centerman. He needs offensive help on the wing.
17) Boyle. Don't mind if we bring him back.
18) a bottom 6 of Bonino, Watson, Sissons, Boyle, Grimaldi, Smith, Jarnkrok isn't a problem. In fact that's a pretty damn good bottom 6.
19) Top 6 players HAVE to be added.
I liked it on the basis of 18/19 being a pretty good %age. :) But as for 1)... Lavy does have to be fired. He went too long this year not fixing things. I don't know what kind of story he could possibly spin to convince me that he'd take a different approach, come up with new ideas, or set new standards for accountability next year when he failed to do any of that over the more-than-ample time he had to do it this year. I've liked him as a coach, maybe on the whole more than I've liked any coach, but I don't think he deserves a pass for the way this season turned out.
 

darth5

No!
Mar 28, 2002
2,586
75
Smashville, TN
Boy this is hard. Part of me wants to see Lavy fired, if not him agree both assistants must be let go. The team has regressed from 2017 form in just about every aspect, as a Cup competitor. The personnel were shuffled, but nothing really changed. Who does that fall to if not coaching?
I agree the roster needs some retooling. It is clear speed is king now, Colorado nearly beat the Preds with speed last year, Stars definitely did this year. Plus the obvious PP and 2nd line woes. I don't know the answers, but doubling down on current roster and leadership is a recipe for failure.
 

predfan98

Registered User
Aug 5, 2007
2,885
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I agree mostly with pred303...... except about Lavy, he needs to go.

I don't think Ellis has ever looked good with josi. I wish he was back with ekholm..... but I'm not happy with any of the top 4 this year. Our D didn't work right this year.....how much was system or coaches?

There's still a big elephant with a lot of trunks of dysfunction in the locker room.... we just don't know exactly what to call it.
 
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MrJoshua

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Mar 24, 2010
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I'd like to try Arvidsson on the third line with Bonino. I think his speed would allow him to flourish there and Bonino can play with a talented winger (see Kessel, Phil).

Bump Granlund to 1RW with Johansen and Forsberg.

Either upgrade at 2C and move Turris to 2LW, or add a solid 2LW and see if Turris can get back to playing the way he was before injury this season.

Give Tolvanen a shot at a middle 6 wing spot if he's ready.

I'd love to see something like:

Forsberg Johansen Granlund
Turris Duchene Smith
Tolvanen Bonino Arvidsson
Watson Sissons Grimaldi

Shoe horn Jarnkrok in somewhere I guess. If Tolvanen doesn't stick, at least.

But the biggest thing I want to see is a system change. I know I've said this before but I HATE how we use our wings in the defensive zone. How many times did the defense blindly throw the puck up the boards with no wing there, for an easy Dallas turnover and offensive chance. We are so soft on the points that time after time the team gets pinned in the defensive end because there's nobody at the point to get the puck out. It drives me crazy.
 
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drwpreds

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Mar 19, 2012
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The team has regressed from 2017 form in just about every aspect, as a Cup competitor. The personnel were shuffled, but nothing really changed. Who does that fall to if not coaching?
I agree the roster needs some retooling. It is clear speed is king now, Colorado nearly beat the Preds with speed last year, Stars definitely did this year. Plus the obvious PP and 2nd line woes. I don't know the answers, but doubling down on current roster and leadership is a recipe for failure.

(Not trying to pick on you here darth5)- but I see a whole lot of people, when discussing Laviolette- say that the last TWO years have been unacceptable or that the Preds have been in decline since the Cup run. Have actually seen some national media saying that.

I just don't agree with that at all. This year?? Yes. This year was a mess and we absolutely underachieved and regressed.

But we regressed last year? We won the President's trophy, had 117 points, won a playoff series and lost in round 2 in 7 games to the 2nd best team in the league last year, a 114 point team. Sorry, but that ain't regressing. We had a great team, and lost to a great team in 7 games.

And Colorado did not "nearly beat us" last year. Preds blew a late lead in Game 5 or we would have won the series in 5 games. And we demolished them in game 6. Saying they almost beat us is about the same as saying we almost beat the Stars this year......
 
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LCPreds

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Dec 8, 2013
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Last year the Preds were a game away from another WCF berth. If Game 7 hadn't been one of those unfortunate "Rinne Special" nights then who knows what would have happened. I don't consider that to be regression at all. I do think they would have been killed by Vegas because of some weird destiny there but still would have considered it a successful season.
 
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triggrman

Where is Hipcheck85
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May 8, 2002
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I'd like to try Arvidsson on the third line with Bonino. I think his speed would allow him to flourish there and Bonino can play with a talented winger (see Kessel, Phil).

Bump Granlund to 1RW with Johansen and Forsberg.

Either upgrade at 2C and move Turris to 2LW, or add a solid 2LW and see if Turris can get back to playing the way he was before injury this season.

Give Tolvanen a shot at a middle 6 wing spot if he's ready.

I'd love to see something like:

Forsberg Johansen Granlund
Turris Duchene Smith
Tolvanen Bonino Arvidsson
Watson Sissons Grimaldi

Shoe horn Jarnkrok in somewhere I guess. If Tolvanen doesn't stick, at least.

But the biggest thing I want to see is a system change. I know I've said this before but I HATE how we use our wings in the defensive zone. How many times did the defense blindly throw the puck up the boards with no wing there, for an easy Dallas turnover and offensive chance. We are so soft on the points that time after time the team gets pinned in the defensive end because there's nobody at the point to get the puck out. It drives me crazy.
I think Smith would do better is a lw. His choppy play style always looks better coming down the left side boards.
 

LCPreds

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I'm telling you. I think the org is in for a shock about how thin the ice is for the fanbase. As quickly as it mushroomed, it'll disappear twice as fast. Its the culture we live in.

Let's just hope they didn't piss off too many of the supporters who have been around for awhile in the process of taking advantage of the situation. I know plenty have been priced out of the building already.
 
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