kinger8998
Registered User
So, theres a lot of smoke around Kreider this deadline. Curious about the Penguins. Many big names have said Kreider won't be cheap, so I was curious if the Penguins would do something around 1st + POJ or 1st + Hallander to get him?
I know the Rangers will want more than Kreider, but is one of those prospects + the 1st too much to ask from the Pens?
Lots of rumors saying Rangers could get 1st + Jost for Kreider, so that would probably be the go-to deal for NYR if this can't happen with Penguins...just was curious how highly Pens value those 2 prospects.
Also (have fun reading this lol, I got on a roll):
1) Similar to Talbot when Sather overplayed his hand, if the Rangers get offered a 1st, especially in this years Draft for AG, I think they should take it. Sure he's young, but he doesn't fit. Shesterkin's body or work in the KHL, AHL, and showing no signs of not being able to handle the NHL (I know, small sample size), makes it apparent he is the guy of the future for NYR. Hank can still play, will continue to help Igor along the way, and has been completely understanding about the decreased starts. Georgiev will want to be a number 1 eventually....the time is not now, and the time will not be in his future.
I don't know if a team who has any need (big or small) for current and future goaltending (TOR, CGY, EDM, SJS, MIN, NJD, OTT, DET, BUF) ponying up their first round pick for AG. That is why, despite NYR tryign to drvie up price through leaks with Dreger, I doubt they get anything more than a 2nd + (near or) NHL ready young player and maybe a roster player for him.
The best I'd expect is either 2nd + Bracco + Timashov from Leafs or Labanc + 2nd from Sharks.
2) The truth lies somewhere in the middle on Strome. He's certainly not the 65-70 pt pace player he's been on, mostly because of Panarin; but he's not the trash some people say he is. Last year, without Panarin, he was a .5 PPG player. There is value in the chemistry he has with Panarin, but theres two issues. I don't see him working long term as a top 6 C (Chytil will deserve that role behind Mika soon enough), and he will likely want to be paid as if he were prodcuing at his 'Panarin clip" when he likely won't be able to stick with Panarin if signed to a long-term deal.
Kravtsov Kakko is the top 6 RW future, while Mika Filip is the top 6 C look. No room for Strome in there. If his ask is in the $3.5-$4M range, I'd say pay him because he can be a solid 3rd line C/RW that produces at a .5 PPG clip on a contending team. But my best bet says he wants to be paid for the production he's producing at right now. If there was long term viability to his partnership with Panarin, it wouldn't be the end of the world if NYR overpayed him when he'll continue to produce like that, but I think NYR see this and will ultimately trade him because the salary he'll want for his production now will not match his production in the long-term.
I'd say a fair return for a player like this would be along the lines of the returns for Marcus Johasson when he was traded in the past. Likely closer to the return the Caps got for him from the Devils 2nd + 3rd. I could also see a younger player coming back for Strome, as Strome is more established. I know the Jets are in limbo with Byfugliens situaion, but they are always searching for a center, and Strome can play with good wingers. Jack Roslovic has never really found his stride in WPG, I wonder if he can't come to NY for Strome? Just a random thought.
3) I was very supportive of Buchnevich when he was producing in a lesser role and deserved a bigger one based on merit. But merit works both ways, and after 3 ish years of saying the breakout into a 60 point player is coming based on "perceived impact", the results still don't match. Kakko and Kravtsov will surpass him, so it would be a mistake to keep him, and pay him like the player he is "supposed" to become, when he still hasn't and won't produce like one when he gets knocked down the depth chart. The long term high AAV deal everyone was yelling for would've turned out badly had they decided to not bridge him, and it will turn out badly if they sign him to it now.
In my opinion, both eye test and advanced stats play significant roles in player evaluation. But in the end, a continued trend of results not matching what is expected, results win out. The time is now to trade Buchnevich so someone else can make that mistake and not us.
I would expect a similar young player in return. I could see the Rangers asking a 1st + a roster player from a contending team since Buch is and RFA at end of this deal and is still young, but don't know if any team would give that up right now. I proposed a Penguins look, with something like their 1st + Galchenyuk for Buch + NYR 3rd, but got mixed reviews from Pens fans and hard passes from NYR fans. I personally think Galchenyuk could be a fit as LW behind Panarin at just 25 and would get a better role here with chance for improvement. Could also see a deal with EDM about Buch for Puljujarvi +. A Vancouver fan mentioned Buch for Hoglander + Baertschi with $ retained but I don't know if VAN would be interested in movign Hoglander so soon or if NYR would bite on a guy that far from NHL when they likely look to be back in Playoffs within 2 years.
Not a young player for young player swap in the ilk of the above, but wonder if Flyers would inquire about a deal involving Buch and Gostisbehere. Not sure of Ghost's stock, so would need input from youguys on filling out details. Not probable though considering divisional rival status.
4) Could see a possible Jesper Fast trade with Vancouver. Once again I would see Baertschi coming back as cap equalizer, while also being a young bottom-6 option at just 25 for the Rangers. He's been productive in the past. Likely see a 4th round pick coming back with Baertschi (maybe with condition of it being 3rd if Fast re-signs).
While I'd love to keep Fast in the fold in NY, don't see it being possible unless the salary is below $3M...don't think it will be though. With Zibanejad needing a new deal in 3 years, Panarin and Trouba at above $8M, NYR can't afford to overpay guys like Fast, no matter how valuable, because guys slightly less effective can be found in FA for 1/3 the price.
5) Brady Skjei's name has been around. I think he has more value on the Rangers than in a trade. He's shown potential, but has had trouble with staying even keel and with consistency. He's either really good or really bad and they switch far too often. I think the best option is to hope he finds the potential that he was awarded his contract under.
If the Rangers decided to go the trade route, I honestly have no clue what he'd be worth. I'd have to assume it's atleast a 1st considering term and age, along with potential. If the Rangers don't want the pick, I'd guess a young LHD would be a swap.
In recap, these deals in a vaccum (obviously not all considering the fact that some of them are with the same team) would be best case scenario for NYR, while also staying close to what I think would be fair value:
To PIT: Chris Kreider
To NYR: 2020 1st, Filip Hallander/POJ, Alex Galchenyuk
or
To COL: Chris Kreider
To NYR: 2020 1st, Tyson Jost, 2021 4th (becomes 2021 3rd if Kreider re-signs/Avs win Cup...2021 2nd if both)
or
To TBL: Chris Kreider (50% retained)
To NYR: 2020 1st, Alex Barre-Boulet, conditional 2021 3rd if Kreider re-signs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To VAN: Jesper Fast
To NYR: Sven Baertschi, 2020 4th
or
To WSH: Jesper Fast
To NYR: 2020 3rd (ARZ)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To TOR: Alexandar Georgiev
To NYR: Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov, 2020 2nd
or
To SJS: Alexandar Georgiev
To NYR: Kevin Labanc, 2021 3rd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To PIT: Pavel Buchnevich, 2020 3rd (DAL)
To NYR: 2020 1st, Alex Galchenyuk
or
To VAN: Pavel Buchnevich
To NYR: Nils Hoglander, Sven Baertschi ($ retained)
or
To PHI: Pavel Buchnevich
To NYR: Shayne Gostisbehere (don't know if 1-for-1 suffices with either side, assuming other pieces needed, just not sure what)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To : Ryan Strome
To NYR: Jack Roslovic, 2020 3rd (2020 2nd?)
or
To DET: Ryan Strome
To NYR: Andreas Athanasiou (+?)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last random thought, what if Marc Staal waives his NTC to play out his contract with brother in MIN? Would Wild be interested in doing something around Rask for Staal with pieces added? Don't know much about the situation with Rask post Niedereitter trade so just an outlandish thought that likely won't happen. NYR will most likely have to buyout Staal.
I know the Rangers will want more than Kreider, but is one of those prospects + the 1st too much to ask from the Pens?
Lots of rumors saying Rangers could get 1st + Jost for Kreider, so that would probably be the go-to deal for NYR if this can't happen with Penguins...just was curious how highly Pens value those 2 prospects.
Also (have fun reading this lol, I got on a roll):
1) Similar to Talbot when Sather overplayed his hand, if the Rangers get offered a 1st, especially in this years Draft for AG, I think they should take it. Sure he's young, but he doesn't fit. Shesterkin's body or work in the KHL, AHL, and showing no signs of not being able to handle the NHL (I know, small sample size), makes it apparent he is the guy of the future for NYR. Hank can still play, will continue to help Igor along the way, and has been completely understanding about the decreased starts. Georgiev will want to be a number 1 eventually....the time is not now, and the time will not be in his future.
I don't know if a team who has any need (big or small) for current and future goaltending (TOR, CGY, EDM, SJS, MIN, NJD, OTT, DET, BUF) ponying up their first round pick for AG. That is why, despite NYR tryign to drvie up price through leaks with Dreger, I doubt they get anything more than a 2nd + (near or) NHL ready young player and maybe a roster player for him.
The best I'd expect is either 2nd + Bracco + Timashov from Leafs or Labanc + 2nd from Sharks.
2) The truth lies somewhere in the middle on Strome. He's certainly not the 65-70 pt pace player he's been on, mostly because of Panarin; but he's not the trash some people say he is. Last year, without Panarin, he was a .5 PPG player. There is value in the chemistry he has with Panarin, but theres two issues. I don't see him working long term as a top 6 C (Chytil will deserve that role behind Mika soon enough), and he will likely want to be paid as if he were prodcuing at his 'Panarin clip" when he likely won't be able to stick with Panarin if signed to a long-term deal.
Kravtsov Kakko is the top 6 RW future, while Mika Filip is the top 6 C look. No room for Strome in there. If his ask is in the $3.5-$4M range, I'd say pay him because he can be a solid 3rd line C/RW that produces at a .5 PPG clip on a contending team. But my best bet says he wants to be paid for the production he's producing at right now. If there was long term viability to his partnership with Panarin, it wouldn't be the end of the world if NYR overpayed him when he'll continue to produce like that, but I think NYR see this and will ultimately trade him because the salary he'll want for his production now will not match his production in the long-term.
I'd say a fair return for a player like this would be along the lines of the returns for Marcus Johasson when he was traded in the past. Likely closer to the return the Caps got for him from the Devils 2nd + 3rd. I could also see a younger player coming back for Strome, as Strome is more established. I know the Jets are in limbo with Byfugliens situaion, but they are always searching for a center, and Strome can play with good wingers. Jack Roslovic has never really found his stride in WPG, I wonder if he can't come to NY for Strome? Just a random thought.
3) I was very supportive of Buchnevich when he was producing in a lesser role and deserved a bigger one based on merit. But merit works both ways, and after 3 ish years of saying the breakout into a 60 point player is coming based on "perceived impact", the results still don't match. Kakko and Kravtsov will surpass him, so it would be a mistake to keep him, and pay him like the player he is "supposed" to become, when he still hasn't and won't produce like one when he gets knocked down the depth chart. The long term high AAV deal everyone was yelling for would've turned out badly had they decided to not bridge him, and it will turn out badly if they sign him to it now.
In my opinion, both eye test and advanced stats play significant roles in player evaluation. But in the end, a continued trend of results not matching what is expected, results win out. The time is now to trade Buchnevich so someone else can make that mistake and not us.
I would expect a similar young player in return. I could see the Rangers asking a 1st + a roster player from a contending team since Buch is and RFA at end of this deal and is still young, but don't know if any team would give that up right now. I proposed a Penguins look, with something like their 1st + Galchenyuk for Buch + NYR 3rd, but got mixed reviews from Pens fans and hard passes from NYR fans. I personally think Galchenyuk could be a fit as LW behind Panarin at just 25 and would get a better role here with chance for improvement. Could also see a deal with EDM about Buch for Puljujarvi +. A Vancouver fan mentioned Buch for Hoglander + Baertschi with $ retained but I don't know if VAN would be interested in movign Hoglander so soon or if NYR would bite on a guy that far from NHL when they likely look to be back in Playoffs within 2 years.
Not a young player for young player swap in the ilk of the above, but wonder if Flyers would inquire about a deal involving Buch and Gostisbehere. Not sure of Ghost's stock, so would need input from youguys on filling out details. Not probable though considering divisional rival status.
4) Could see a possible Jesper Fast trade with Vancouver. Once again I would see Baertschi coming back as cap equalizer, while also being a young bottom-6 option at just 25 for the Rangers. He's been productive in the past. Likely see a 4th round pick coming back with Baertschi (maybe with condition of it being 3rd if Fast re-signs).
While I'd love to keep Fast in the fold in NY, don't see it being possible unless the salary is below $3M...don't think it will be though. With Zibanejad needing a new deal in 3 years, Panarin and Trouba at above $8M, NYR can't afford to overpay guys like Fast, no matter how valuable, because guys slightly less effective can be found in FA for 1/3 the price.
5) Brady Skjei's name has been around. I think he has more value on the Rangers than in a trade. He's shown potential, but has had trouble with staying even keel and with consistency. He's either really good or really bad and they switch far too often. I think the best option is to hope he finds the potential that he was awarded his contract under.
If the Rangers decided to go the trade route, I honestly have no clue what he'd be worth. I'd have to assume it's atleast a 1st considering term and age, along with potential. If the Rangers don't want the pick, I'd guess a young LHD would be a swap.
In recap, these deals in a vaccum (obviously not all considering the fact that some of them are with the same team) would be best case scenario for NYR, while also staying close to what I think would be fair value:
To PIT: Chris Kreider
To NYR: 2020 1st, Filip Hallander/POJ, Alex Galchenyuk
or
To COL: Chris Kreider
To NYR: 2020 1st, Tyson Jost, 2021 4th (becomes 2021 3rd if Kreider re-signs/Avs win Cup...2021 2nd if both)
or
To TBL: Chris Kreider (50% retained)
To NYR: 2020 1st, Alex Barre-Boulet, conditional 2021 3rd if Kreider re-signs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To VAN: Jesper Fast
To NYR: Sven Baertschi, 2020 4th
or
To WSH: Jesper Fast
To NYR: 2020 3rd (ARZ)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To TOR: Alexandar Georgiev
To NYR: Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov, 2020 2nd
or
To SJS: Alexandar Georgiev
To NYR: Kevin Labanc, 2021 3rd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To PIT: Pavel Buchnevich, 2020 3rd (DAL)
To NYR: 2020 1st, Alex Galchenyuk
or
To VAN: Pavel Buchnevich
To NYR: Nils Hoglander, Sven Baertschi ($ retained)
or
To PHI: Pavel Buchnevich
To NYR: Shayne Gostisbehere (don't know if 1-for-1 suffices with either side, assuming other pieces needed, just not sure what)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To : Ryan Strome
To NYR: Jack Roslovic, 2020 3rd (2020 2nd?)
or
To DET: Ryan Strome
To NYR: Andreas Athanasiou (+?)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One last random thought, what if Marc Staal waives his NTC to play out his contract with brother in MIN? Would Wild be interested in doing something around Rask for Staal with pieces added? Don't know much about the situation with Rask post Niedereitter trade so just an outlandish thought that likely won't happen. NYR will most likely have to buyout Staal.
