Confirmed with Link: NYR signed Vinni Lettieri

[NYR Viper]

I think we are also seeing some of these guys realizing that the Rangers prospect pool is barren which means less competition to make the NHL. Who in the AHL has a legit shot of making a contribution? Nieves? Graves? That's pretty much it right now and they are by no means locks

 

[nyr2k2]

The top tier NCAA teams play very structured hockey so it's no surprise NHL organizations dipping their fingers into that pool are frequently coming away with solid if unspectacular NHLers.

Yep, the top teams in college play much more of a "pro-style" game than they do in Major Junior. It's physical and structured and the players are more mature. The NCAA may not match the CHL in terms of huge upside names (though more big-time guys are going the NCAA route of late) but there are lots of guys coming out at 22, 24 years old that are steady players ready to step into the NHL.

 

[eco's bones]

Yep, the top teams in college play much more of a "pro-style" game than they do in Major Junior. It's physical and structured and the players are more mature. The NCAA may not match the CHL in terms of huge upside names (though more big-time guys are going the NCAA route of late) but there are lots of guys coming out at 22, 24 years old that are steady players ready to step into the NHL.

I was looking at this article yesterday by Herman (who I'm not a particular fan of) and he sees these guys as having value equivalent to 5th round picks. I'm really not sure I like his analogy. Guys like Lettieri, Nell and Pedrie are more developed than an 18 year old you're not all that sure about. Basically the draft (at least past the first round of two) is mostly about throwing **** at the wall--hoping some of it sticks. You really don't know--whereas when it comes to an older player you know a lot more. I look at these guys as guys who should push for regular AHL jobs next year.

The CHL though does offer a more NHL like schedule than college hockey.

 

[nyr2k2]

The NCAA guys are way closer to being finished products than your average fifth round pick. You definitely have a much better idea of what you're getting.

 

[Edge]

The NCAA guys are way closer to being finished products than your average fifth round pick. You definitely have a much better idea of what you're getting.

Yeah, I didn't really quite get the fifth round pick analogy.

I think the difference between signing free agents vs. draft picks is that there's not quite the same level of fantasy projecting.

You always hope for the best with your draft picks, but other signings tend to have more tempered expectations. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not something many people do a good job of with draft picks.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yeah, I didn't really quite get the fifth round pick analogy.

I think the difference between signing free agents vs. draft picks is that there's not quite the same level of fantasy projecting.

You always hope for the best with your draft picks, but other signings tend to have more tempered expectations. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not something many people do a good job of with draft picks.

I think it might have to do with fans perceiving they gave up something for drafted (and even traded for) players to a certain degree, so they want to get as much value coming back as possible. Where as free agents are acquired with just money, so there's not much asset value to weigh expectations against

 

[Mikos87]

it's the skating and physical maturity that you get with college programs that are really helping the modern game.

Junior kids have a lot of miles on them, and with the amount of cardio they do, some kids take longer.

There's diet too, top college programs have good meal plans.

Poorer junior teams do not.

But those are some of the reasons you get closer to a finished product, bust or not, out of college.

Exceptions are powerhouse junior teams like London.

Their athletic program is top tier and they play a pro style system.

Look at the top of every draft year.

How many kids come out of London?

 

[darko]

Kid can fly.

On paper he sounds a bit like Carl Hagelin.

 

[Miamipuck]

Kid can fly.

On paper he sounds a bit like Carl Hagelin.

Does he have that type of speed?

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I didn't really quite get the fifth round pick analogy.

I think the difference between signing free agents vs. draft picks is that there's not quite the same level of fantasy projecting.

You always hope for the best with your draft picks, but other signings tend to have more tempered expectations. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not something many people do a good job of with draft picks.

I think NCAA UDFAs don't have a high success rate. Possibly success at the same rate as 5th rounders.

How many have we signed that have become NHLers?

 

[darko]

Does he have that type of speed?

Nope.

 

[Revel]

There's diet too, top college programs have good meal plans.

Poorer junior teams do not.

This makes me sad...like some CHL teams are abusive parents or something.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think NCAA UDFAs don't have a high success rate. Possibly success at the same rate as 5th rounders.

How many have we signed that have become NHLers?

Talbot. Gilroy. Ortmeyer. Pock. We had Matt Read and Keith Kinkaid in camp a few times. We were in on DeKeyser and Sustr.

We haven't been big players in the NCAA UDFA market until fairly recently. And honestly, that hasn't even been a huge market until maybe the last decade.

Maybe the average NCAA UDFA has the same NHL success rate as the average fifth round pick, but I'd wager that the NCAA guys have a much higher chance of becoming successful organizational guys and at least getting cups of coffee in the NHL than do the fifth rounders. Many (most? I don't have hard numbers) guys taken that late don't even get ELC spots, don't come over from Europe, get stuck in the ECHL, etc.

There's also the fact that there's usually a handful of very highly regarded NCAA guys each season to be signed. How many highly regarded players slip into round five? Unless they have some massive question mark attached to them, none. I don't know, I just don't think it's a good analogy.

 

[Edge]

Talbot. Gilroy. Ortmeyer. Pock. We had Matt Read and Keith Kinkaid in camp a few times. We were in on DeKeyser and Sustr.

We haven't been big players in the NCAA UDFA market until fairly recently. And honestly, that hasn't even been a huge market until maybe the last decade.

Maybe the average NCAA UDFA has the same NHL success rate as the average fifth round pick, but I'd wager that the NCAA guys have a much higher chance of becoming successful organizational guys and at least getting cups of coffee in the NHL than do the fifth rounders. Many (most? I don't have hard numbers) guys taken that late don't even get ELC spots, don't come over from Europe, get stuck in the ECHL, etc.

There's also the fact that there's usually a handful of very highly regarded NCAA guys each season to be signed. How many highly regarded players slip into round five? Unless they have some massive question mark attached to them, none. I don't know, I just don't think it's a good analogy.

That's essentially how I view it.

I also think that we're talking about a wide range of players when we're talking about UDFA. I mean how many players come out of college in any given year? That in and of itself could be a draft.

A lot of these guys are long shots to be impact NHL players, there's no getting around that. But a good chunk of them are at least good enough to play professionally. They investment is relatively low and if you happen to find the golden ticket, you won't care if the player was one of 10 that you signed.

Below is a list of some promimnent UDFAs. If one of them turns into a depth defenseman or forward, again, not a bad a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undrafted_NHL_players_with_100_games_played

 

[Tawnos]

Talbot. Gilroy. Ortmeyer. Pock. We had Matt Read and Keith Kinkaid in camp a few times. We were in on DeKeyser and Sustr.

We haven't been big players in the NCAA UDFA market until fairly recently. And honestly, that hasn't even been a huge market until maybe the last decade.

Maybe the average NCAA UDFA has the same NHL success rate as the average fifth round pick, but I'd wager that the NCAA guys have a much higher chance of becoming successful organizational guys and at least getting cups of coffee in the NHL than do the fifth rounders. Many (most? I don't have hard numbers) guys taken that late don't even get ELC spots, don't come over from Europe, get stuck in the ECHL, etc.

There's also the fact that there's usually a handful of very highly regarded NCAA guys each season to be signed. How many highly regarded players slip into round five? Unless they have some massive question mark attached to them, none. I don't know, I just don't think it's a good analogy.

I agree about the organizational depth and am not saying these guys have no value. I just think they're no likelier to contribute to the NHL team than a 5th rounder.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I guess the question is what people expect from both UDFAs and 5th rounders. Some guys in recent years like Auston-Reece, Caggiula, Anas, Kossila, Vecchione, Czarnik, Hyman* and Haggerty were regarded by some as great prospects and expectations were high.

However, if those guys turn into solid bottom-6 players in the long run, it is a win and still better than the majority of 5th round picks.

Now, if we compare undrafted free agents to 5th round picks, we should actually compare them to 5th rounders who were also offered a contract and see how they do compared to each other, rather than lumping all 5th rounders together.

I don't have time for it now, but maybe during the week I can do some research and compare the two.

 

[Creepingjeff]

I view grabbing college free agents as getting guys for either depth in the minors or to potentially help your bottom 6 forwards or 5/6/7 defensemen. If they become anything better than that, great. Even someone like Vesey, my upside on him was 40 points and as a middle 6 player.

 

[Larrybiv]

Some undrafted guys who have played for the Rangers--Sean Avery, Kent-Erik Andersson, John Bednarski, Tim Bothwell, Phil Bourque, Dan Boyle, Donald Brashear, Jay Caufield, Ruslan Fedotenko, Paul Fenton, Nick Fotiu, Rob Ftorek, Matt Gilroy, Dan Girardi, Wayne Gretzky, Glenn Healy, Anders Hedberg, Nick Holden, Josh Jooris, Mike Keane, Tim Kerr, Kelly Kisio, Chris Kostopolous, Nick Kypreos, Darren Langdon, Grant Ledyard, Sylvain Lefevbre, Mikko Leinonen, Norm Maciver, Brian MacLellan, George McPhee, Marty McSorley, Ulf Nilsson, Colton Orr, Jed Ortmeyer, Mark Pavelich, Antti Raanta, Mike Ridley, Reijo Ruotsolainen, Martin St. Louis, Cam Talbot, Mark Tinordi, Mats Zuccarello.

Not all of these guys are great players but generally speaking they were important players at least for periods of time. Curtis Joseph, Ed Belfour, Joe Mullen, Joel Otto, Torey Krug, Tyler Johnson, Charlie Huddy, Curtis Glencross, Pascal Dupuis, Geoff Courtnall, Tyler Bozak, Jason Blake, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jay Beagle, Borje Salming, Steve Thomas, Dino Ciccarelli, Marian Stastny, Peter Stastny, Antoine Roussel, Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Brian Rafalski, Andy Greene, Steve Duchesne, Dave Poulin, John Madden, Jamie Macoun, Randy Gregg, Glenn Reach, Joel Ward.

He could end up running the nhl's 40th team. The Arkansas Racoons! How is that for my impersonation of Nostradamus!

And some seriously good players, I would say.....Just ask the Jackets where they would be without Bob. Lol on Philly, for a decade+ been searching for that #1, turned out they had one, and couldn't see it right in front of their eyes!

 

[Joey Bones]

I view grabbing college free agents as getting guys for either depth in the minors or to potentially help your bottom 6 forwards or 5/6/7 defensemen. If they become anything better than that, great. Even someone like Vesey, my upside on him was 40 points and as a middle 6 player.

Agreed with this, however some turned out great. Martin St. Louis and Dan Boyle for example.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Agreed with this, however some turned out great. Martin St. Louis and Dan Boyle for example.

And despite odds being slim, it's great to hope for the best.

 

[Joey Bones]

And despite odds being slim, it's great to hope for the best.

Agreed

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Think Lettieri needs to get a bit of love here.

Thought he had an excellent training camp and a couple good preseason games. Now he's playing some great hockey as a first year pro in the AHL.

After starting the season with no points in the first 3 games, he now has 13 points in the last 14 games (8G/5A).

Think there is a very good shot he makes the Ranger's as a bottom 6 player in the future. Great FA signing by Gorton.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Wouldn't mind seeing him in the lineup instead of DD.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Probably ends up being our best college signing since Hayes.

 

[RGY]

Shouldve made the team out of camp. Should be up over Nieves at the least.