Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

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Off Sides

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We had over 16 million in cap hits for one position this year - Smith who played at 4,35. Girardi, Shattenkirk and DeAngelo who did not play at over 12 million. And some blame Covid for our cap troubles:)

I'd even be willing to give them a pass on Girardi since they did not sign that deal, yet when one sees they bought him out to sign Shattenkirk the excuse kind of goes out the window there.
 
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kovazub94

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No I did not speculate in real estate in the past couple years, now what does that matter?

Every team had the same cap ceiling. Past choices add up.

What matters is that these were known issues and accepted risk knowing that the Rangers were not cap contenders and that going into the next season they’d be able to start addressing these issues. Up until the moment, ADA had been able to keep the plug on his off ice persona for the duration of his Rangers tenure. JJ was brought because of Martin whom everyone loves and who was able to turn Miller into an NHL regular in his first season. Lemieux was given the last chance to show what he got. Kreider was clearly affected by some lingering injury as he wasn’t the same player he was last season. Losing Fast probably hurt the most from the unforced errors perspective but Gorton was dealing with pennies to build the team so there’s that.

And no other teams were not in the same position when we’re talking about the youngest team in the NHL.
 

Off Sides

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What matters is that these were known issues and accepted risk knowing that the Rangers were not cap contenders and that going into the next season they’d be able to start addressing these issues. Up until the moment ADA was able to keep the plug on his off ice persona for the duration of his Rangers tenure. JJ was brought because of Martin whom everyone loves and who was able to turn Miller into an NHL regular in his first season. Lemieux was given the last chance to show what he got. Kreider was clearly affected by some lingering injury as he wasn’t the same player he was last season. Losing Fast probably hurt the most from the unforced errors perspective but Gorton was dealing with pennies to build the team so there’s that.

And no other teams were not in the same position when we’re talking about the youngest team in the NHL.

The youngest team thing such an odd argument, they were decimal points younger than several other teams. If one want to say they were one of the younger teams in the league, okay I can go with that.

We could go back and forth a ton here, yet I understand why they changed management, in my view perhaps Gorton/JD got somewhat of a raw deal due to past management choices, yet to me there were as many mistakes as there were good moves since, and most of the good moves came from when a team sells to rebuild. The NHL players other than Zbad they brought in, the already drafted prospects they traded for outside of Fox who sort of forced his way, the extensions and signing, I find them pretty underwhelming.
 

bobbop

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Gorton made choices for some time, JD came in and made choices, they spent a shit ton of money on contracts. The results against any team who was even slightly better than them sucked, and those who they spent a shit ton of money on were getting creamed. They had opportunities to do a much better job even while rebuilding.

If one, you, are going to try to pin entry level bonuses on their issues, that is weak sauce. Like they didn't know they were rebuilding and drafting players, who if they signed, would require potential bonuses to be covered?

They screwed up, the results speak for themselves.
I rest my case.
 

Off Sides

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The bonus cushion really hurt the Rangers this year. In retrospect they had no choice but to find someone to take Stall and buyout The King. They never had a lot of financial wiggle room that they could use to strengthen the team. In a roundabout way, that was the downside of winning the lottery.

The bonus cushion did not hurt the Rangers, that is something every team incorporates into their cap structure if they sign entry levels with possible bonus money, it's not just a rule for the Rangers.
 
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bobbop

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The bonus cushion did not hurt the Rangers, that is something every team incorporates into their cap structure if they sign entry levels with possible bonus money, it's not just a rule for the Rangers.
It hurt the Rangers tremendously because it was more than the league overage allowance. Do you know how the cap works? They had to hold more money back because they knew Lafreniere was going to be here all season with max bonuses in his contract. Same for Kakko and Igor. It made it prohibitive to call up Barron.

CapFriendly even had to create a new category specifically for the Rangers.

Know what you are talking about.
 

Off Sides

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It hurt the Rangers tremendously because it was more than the league overage allowance. Do you know how the cap works? They had to hold more money back because they knew Lafreniere was going to be here all season with max bonuses in his contract. Same for Kakko and Igor. It made it prohibitive to call up Barron.

Know what you are talking about.

I do know how it works, they used more cap space this season on ADA and JJ, for a total of 19 games between them, than they had to withhold for the bonuses on all the entry level contracts.
 

Shesterkybomb

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Its totally about the makeup of this team and its inability to protect their top money star, a player Jim Dolan invested a lot of money in, Sather drove me bananas but he always had some grit to protect the stars, whether you feel it was effective or not, not having someone was obviously not what ownership felt was the best course of action.
 

Off Sides

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That is because the sum of potential bonus payouts cannot exceed 7.5-percent of the cap. That calculates to $6,112,500 on the $81.5 million cap. The Rangers could be on the hook for $10,912,500 in total potential entry level bonuses. The hypothetical $4.8 million difference would be applied to the Rangers’ cap at the start of the season.

4.8M

They at the time had ADA signed to make 4.8M alone

Given they put JJ and ADA on the taxi squad, this year they combined accounted for about that same 4.8M in cap space.

Or it could have been the buy out of Shattenkirk, Gorton was GM when he was signed, that cost them over 6M this cap season alone.

Plus it's not as if the bonuses to Shesty, Kakko should have snuck up on them, they were the same as last year.

All the same, to me the real thing that hurt them was not any of that or the flat cap, it was the all set in motion by the more expensive contracts they gave out.

It started with Smith, Shattenkirk, moved on to Panarin, Trouba, Kreider, and while Panarin may still be a top line wing for some years, it's looking as if the others will carry contracts well beyond their on ice placement within the roster.
 
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kovazub94

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4.8M

They at the time had ADA signed to make 4.8M alone

Given they put JJ and ADA on the taxi squad, this year they combined accounted for about that same 4.8M in cap space.

Or it could have been the buy out of Shattenkirk, Gorton was GM when he was signed, that cost them over 6M this cap season alone.

Plus it's not as if the bonuses to Shesty, Kakko should have snuck up on them, they were the same as last year.

All the same, to me the real thing that hurt them was not any of that or the flat cap, it was the all set in motion by the more expensive contracts they gave out.

It started with Smith, Shattenkirk, moved on to Panarin, Trouba, Kreider, and while Panarin may still be a top line wing for some years, it's looking as if the others will carry contracts well beyond their on ice placement within the roster.


OMG!!! Is your memory capable of putting yourself back to as early as January??? What were the projected D pairing and 7/8 D to complete the roster on Day 1?
 

Off Sides

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OMG!!! Is your memory capable of putting yourself back to as early as January??? What were the projected D pairing and 7/8 D to complete the roster on Day 1?

I do not know what you are talking about?

I am speaking to the range of choices which were made by Gorton and/or JD. Many of them go further back than just this past off-season.
 

Pidto Files

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I cant remember the details but I remember Chris Drury who was not a fighter answering the bell when somebody went after Jagr.

Forgot one other thing about Drury, he was brought in to provide intangibles.. That’s about it.. Hopefully, this time around he’s going to bring us a Cup.. That’s all any of us care about!!
 
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Hi ImHFNYR

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It hurt the Rangers tremendously because it was more than the league overage allowance. Do you know how the cap works? They had to hold more money back because they knew Lafreniere was going to be here all season with max bonuses in his contract. Same for Kakko and Igor. It made it prohibitive to call up Barron.

CapFriendly even had to create a new category specifically for the Rangers.

Know what you are talking about.
I think he was saying they accounted for it, they just did a bad job preparing. The way you're writing implies they didn't know bonuses could be an issue. There's nothing that suggests he doesn't know what he's talking about. You attacked him for no reason
 
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Roo Returns

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The Rangers did try to bring players in this offseason, they were just turned down, a lot. Larry wrote about Chara. That was the tip of the iceberg. We know Granlund and Wennberg were contacted. Brian Boyle. Our insiders mentioned all these names.

Covid was very bad and remember, the Rangers are at a disadvantage because any vet that comes in here knows that they have to do a lot. The leadership core is week, the team is soft, and the coach isn't someone who inspires UFAs.

Add to the usual problems. New York is not as desirable a place to play for as it once was 20-30 years ago. High taxes, and there is no more lure. Sports in this region have been a nostalgia act the last 5-6 years. There's zero mystique to this region in the era of social media and Facetime.

In hindsight it would have been best to stay away from Shattenkirk and Smith and start rebuilding a year earlier.
 
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Clark Kellogg

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It's going to be tortuous having to listen to knuckle-dragging, mouthbreathing Caps fans pratting on about "ToM wILSon GoT yOur FRont OFFiCe FirEd" for the next 5 years.
The only lasting thing that TW did was steal the spotlight from TJ Oshie Hat Trick tribute to the loss before his time father. Wilson killed a national feel good story that would have brought a human interest spotlight to the Caps and the NHL. Instead his temporary insanity meltdown condemnation of the sport with outsiders pointing out “see, nothings changed”. Same rhyming history from Matt Cooke on Eric Karlsson to Dave Brown on Tomas Sandstom to Wild Paiment on Dennis Polinich.
Know Cap fans how do you fele about your juiced up hero destroying his teammates tribute? I guess that will make some of them so mad they’ll want to throw full soda cans at opposing players being interviewed on a national broadcast again. #replacebettman
 

Clark Kellogg

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Especially because Gorton has generally done a very good job with his trades other than McDonagh and I guess the Staal trade

Now if Buffalo really feels they MUST trade Eichel, you bet your ass the Rangers are the first team they're calling, knowing they now have a meddling owner who is willing to sacrifice the entire future for a player like Eichel. Whereas in the past I always felt Gorton would be able to take Adams to the cleaners on any Eichel trade.

Now I'm seriously concerned this one trade could set us back a decade and even Eichel putting up 100 points 5 season in a row wouldn't offset the damage.
In 1978/79 the NewYork Rangers went to the Stanley Cup finals losing to the Montreal Canadians. The following year the Rangers traded four players off that roster to the Colorado Rockies for Barry Beck.
The Rangers did not make it back to the finals to 1993/94 season.
 

egelband

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I just don’t understand how some are so willing to give both management and coaching complete passes for their mistakes. What are these people responsible for in your minds?
I think we all complained about the mistakes. I for one just thought they were outweighed by the positives. And I think the errors in cap and asset management could be written off if the team wasn’t so dang one-dimensional. And even the one-dimensionality could have been fixed in the off-season had it not become so glaring against the Isles and Caps. At least that’s what I imaging Dolan (and Slats?) think.
 

Riche16

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First, I guess I shouldn't have waded into a debate that didn't involve me. :laugh:

Second, I'm just sharing a general worry I have--that is shared by others, evidently--that the window is going to be half-open or half-shut, depending on your perspective, but never fully open. Some of the young guys that we're going to be relying on need to be ready to take the step next season, while the veteran group is still in their prime. If it takes a couple more years for Kakko, Kravtsov, Lafreniere, Lundkvist, whoever else you want to name, to really hit their stride, that could very realistically coincide with the start of downturn in the play of the veterans. No, I have no actual evidence to suggest Panarin or Zibanejad (if he's here) or Trouba or whoever else will actually decline, other than anecdotal stuff about players around 30, but I'm just stating a generalized concern.

Like, what if we've seen Panarin's best? Or Zibanejad's? What if Strome has that regression that so many thought he would? What if Kreider or Trouba slow down and become anchor contracts? That's all worst case stuff of course but not outside the realm of possibility. It feels like we're straddling a fine line with when that window is totally open as opposed to when it's fully open but simultaneously shutting because some guys start to decline. Now this isn't anything that it's a huge failing of JD and Gorts or anything, just a worry. And of course, as I've argued many times, windows can be reset and are fluid--like you could spin off Strome or Zibanejad or whatever for younger players and eliminate some of that worry about the "misalignment" of the youth development and the veterans' ability.

Your comment was that the window is totally open next year and would be for five years; my point was that it's totally possible that's not the case if the kids continue to progress at a deliberate pace and if the older core were to start to decline. In that case, your five year window could basically become like a one- or two-year window before you have to make big moves. That's all. It's not a huge criticism of JD and Gorton, but just a worry about what I see as a slightly tenuous roster construction.

EDIT: Just to further clarify, I was not opposed to re-signing Kreider or signing Panarin. I supported the former and was initially on the fence about the latter but came around to the idea. So, I'm not saying it was wrong to do either of those. But, some people did say, "Hey, if we're really rebuilding, maybe these aren't moves we should be making." I think that's what the other person was alluding to.
Many of us were against Panarin... I was one. It made no sense to me (other than to sell tickets which was never an issue). We were a rebuilding team. Kreider I was DEAD set against as well. Trouba not as much because at that moment we needed a steadying presence on D... and had no one in the system yet. (yes he's overpaid)

The point I guess I'm making is that Bread has been fantastic to watch, however... when the debate was about signing him or not I remember saying MANY times that team construction is all about TIMING.

When Hank emerged the team was NOT CLOSE to being ready for him. Sather spent the duration of Hank's entire career trying to BUY a team to place around him so as not to waste him.

As you mention, the window fluctuates obv but once you lock yourself into Bread & Kreider then you draft Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere... you're in an odd situation in a cap realm. (To say nothing of your patience with Buch that's paid off in spades)

No one could guess that #2 and then #1 would fall into our laps and I agree Gorts has done an amazing job turning the ship around. I would've never saw this coming. He was doing fantastic IMO
 

NYSPORTS

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In 1978/79 the NewYork Rangers went to the Stanley Cup finals losing to the Montreal Canadians. The following year the Rangers traded four players off that roster to the Colorado Rockies for Barry Beck.
The Rangers did not make it back to the finals to 1993/94 season.

true, yet the Islanders were a real problem
 
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NYSPORTS

back afta dis. . .
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The Rangers did try to bring players in this offseason, they were just turned down, a lot. Larry wrote about Chara. That was the tip of the iceberg. We know Granlund and Wennberg were contacted. Brian Boyle. Our insiders mentioned all these names.

Covid was very bad and remember, the Rangers are at a disadvantage because any vet that comes in here knows that they have to do a lot. The leadership core is week, the team is soft, and the coach isn't someone who inspires UFAs.

Add to the usual problems. New York is not as desirable a place to play for as it once was 20-30 years ago. High taxes, and there is no more lure. Sports in this region have been a nostalgia act the last 5-6 years. There's zero mystique to this region in the era of social media and Facetime.

In hindsight it would have been best to stay away from Shattenkirk and Smith and start rebuilding a year earlier.

half and half

- the veterans contacted want a Cup and this was not a Cup roster. Cannot expect a 44 yr old Chara to bypass a Cup with Washington so he can skate with kids with no shot.

- as far as NY, it is extremely desirable for kids or those without a family. It’s the ultimate playground. Many sports figures can enjoy themselves and remain anonymous. Doubt they lose sleep over taxes south of age 30. The Covid thing, yeah, that’s an interesting angle.
 
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