News Article: Nylander voted Comeback Player of the Year in the PHWA's Midseason Awards

Sweet Leaf

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
1,176
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Toronto
He was paid in proportion to his closest comparables. People just for some reason want to pick and choose those comparables, like looking at only the best contract (Ehlers) or the superstar that exploded after signing (Pastrnak).

He was a two-time 60 point RFA, and that was what he was paid like.



We can all pick and choose things to suit our arguments...like basing the comparable on Pastrnak's last 2 years instead of Pasdtrnak's most recent year heading into RFA? And also failing to consider one of those years was when Pastrnak played onlt 51 games.

Or not considering there was no production jump from year 1 to 2 which showed a clear lack of progression curve that would indicate a big point jump was certain.

The Bruins don't "project" very much. Neither does the Lightning. There are many comparatives where the Nylander salary was out of whack and we've discussed them ad nauseum. I think the Larkin deal at 5.1 was probably the most infuriating for me.

But forget all that... You get deals for as low as you can sign them period. It's not the Red Cross. The big failing, regardless of arguments over comparables, was we never had to give him that money. He was never going to burn an entire year only to be in the same exact position. It was irrational to give him more money than they initially thought he was worth and deserved when they had all the leverage.

This should have been a Reilly/Kadri type deal where if he developed we would be laughing. Instead, due to market pressures, we baked in that improvement and paid him more than we wanted to. This is terrible negotiating/rationale.

Anyway it's no big deal since he's earning his contract now but this could have been a team/executive wrecking deal because it would have been very hard to make a "It made sense at the time" argument.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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There are many comparatives where the Nylander salary was out of whack and we've discussed them ad nauseum.
Nylander's contract was well within his comparables.
I think the Larkin deal at 5.1 was probably the most infuriating for me.
That might be because you thought he got a contract he didn't get. Larkin makes 6.1 mil. He got 850k and 1 year less, as a worse player.
You get deals for as low as you can sign them period.
And agents try to get deals for as high as they can. That's why it's called a negotiation.
was we never had to give him that money.
We did if we wanted him on the team, and everybody should.
He was never going to burn an entire year only to be in the same exact position.
You don't know this, and whether or not this is true, creating a toxic relationship, hurting the team in the present, and hurting the development of a core piece, is not worth whatever negligible amount you want to pay him less, especially when he's within his comparables.
 
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Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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We can all pick and choose things to suit our arguments...like basing the comparable on Pastrnak's last 2 years instead of Pasdtrnak's most recent year heading into RFA? And also failing to consider one of those years was when Pastrnak played onlt 51 games.

Or not considering there was no production jump from year 1 to 2 which showed a clear lack of progression curve that would indicate a big point jump was certain.

The Bruins don't "project" very much. Neither does the Lightning. There are many comparatives where the Nylander salary was out of whack and we've discussed them ad nauseum. I think the Larkin deal at 5.1 was probably the most infuriating for me.

But forget all that... You get deals for as low as you can sign them period. It's not the Red Cross. The big failing, regardless of arguments over comparables, was we never had to give him that money. He was never going to burn an entire year only to be in the same exact position. It was irrational to give him more money than they initially thought he was worth and deserved when they had all the leverage.

This should have been a Reilly/Kadri type deal where if he developed we would be laughing. Instead, due to market pressures, we baked in that improvement and paid him more than we wanted to. This is terrible negotiating/rationale.

Anyway it's no big deal since he's earning his contract now but this could have been a team/executive wrecking deal because it would have been very hard to make a "It made sense at the time" argument.
You can pick and choose whatever you want, or you could research what kind of factors drive contracts and judge based on them. I prefer to do the latter. And there are comparables where Nylander's contract looked bad, and there are also the opposite. That's why his contract ends up being average.

Are you honestly arguing that our "big failing" was that we didn't take unprecedented measures, which would likely alienate a core player on top of us losing him for a year, just to avoid giving him an average contract? No offense, but I'm glad you're not management in that case. It's not irrational to give him more money than they initially wanted, because that happens in every negotiation. Every team starts low and then make concessions, and no other team takes the measures you talk about.

I'm also not sure what you're talking about with Kadri. He got a short bridge out of his ELC as he didn't have a case for anything else. His current contract was a result of him walking into negotiations with three straight seasons in the 40-50 point range. Just like Nylander, he got his contract based on what he had done up until that point. Just like Nylander, there was nothing out of the ordinary about it. He was cheap because he didn't have a case to get more.

And no offense, there's pretty much not a single second contract for a player with Nylander's resumé that has ever been a "team/executive wrecking deal". It doesn't happen. Second contract RFAs are the most sure bet you can make on the market.

In essence: You're overthinking things, talking about market pressures and so on. Go read studies about what drives contract value, and then take a look at how the market looks. You'll find that it lines up very well. The primary exception is Tampa Bay, and there are a few outliers, but the same basic rules govern contracts across the league, for almost every team and in almost every specific case.
 
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therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,050
8,224
the Prior
I cant hear any of the naysayers from last season!!!! Something about eating CROW!!!

If a player is playing far below his ability, playing the perimeter, doesn't back check, doesn't forecheck and is mailing in shifts, criticism is wholeheartedly deserved. That criticism is because those people see the reality in that pl;ayer's game and also have an understanding that the player is capable of so much more.

Nylander who has played under Gord Dineen, Sheldon Keefe, Mike Babcock and Sheldon Keefe again, has been benched by all of them some more then once. Are all of them wrong? Were they benching him because his play was too good for the rest of the league, or perhaps they all had personal vendetta's against him.

get real
 

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,050
8,224
the Prior
I'd be calling Dreger if I were Dubas to find out who that GM was...Willy would bring a nice return,so therefore if he values Kappy more,then let's hear the offer! But,I bet Dreger is full of it!

you bet he's full of it?

he's always been full of it, there's a reason they call him 'figjam'
 

CelticDruid

Registered User
Oct 23, 2013
7,186
6,036
Penticton , BC
I wonder what nylander's stats this year look like with Matthew's vs with tavares as his center.

Seems like he is scoring a lot more goals playing with JT.


Nylander is driving the line and has a shooters' mentality, he wants to be a key player, and he is proving that he can be.

Tavares is just a decoy right now, or so it seems.
Tavares has to get it going and then hopefully that line will be great for the playoffs.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,144
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St. Paul, MN
Imo a big problem over the last few seasons is that Leafs fans really havent had much experience with star young talent for a couple decades. Kessel came to the Leafs a near finished product, Quins teams were built around grizzled vets.

Led to them having trouble understanding that young players will have ups and downs (and again this goes beyond JUST Nylander) before hitting those prime years

Im just happy for the most part those hot takes are in the past among most fans. Nylander still seems the target of jabs from hacks in the media every once in a while though unfortunately
 
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Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,725
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We can all pick and choose things to suit our arguments...like basing the comparable on Pastrnak's last 2 years instead of Pasdtrnak's most recent year heading into RFA? And also failing to consider one of those years was when Pastrnak played onlt 51 games.

Or not considering there was no production jump from year 1 to 2 which showed a clear lack of progression curve that would indicate a big point jump was certain.

The Bruins don't "project" very much. Neither does the Lightning. There are many comparatives where the Nylander salary was out of whack and we've discussed them ad nauseum. I think the Larkin deal at 5.1 was probably the most infuriating for me.

But forget all that... You get deals for as low as you can sign them period. It's not the Red Cross. The big failing, regardless of arguments over comparables, was we never had to give him that money. He was never going to burn an entire year only to be in the same exact position. It was irrational to give him more money than they initially thought he was worth and deserved when they had all the leverage.

This should have been a Reilly/Kadri type deal where if he developed we would be laughing. Instead, due to market pressures, we baked in that improvement and paid him more than we wanted to. This is terrible negotiating/rationale.

Anyway it's no big deal since he's earning his contract now but this could have been a team/executive wrecking deal because it would have been very hard to make a "It made sense at the time" argument.

He had no leverage other than the fact that if he sits we have our entire forward core without contracts last summer. You think the Marner negotiation was bad? Imagine how it would go if the 3 of them decided to negotiate together knowing that we don't have a team without them, meanwhile scrubs like Hayes are getting 7x7 deals.
 
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Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
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Skövde, Sweden
and nobody ever did

it was always for a 1st pairing guy, at least to those of us in the know
Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I was mostly terrified that he would go to another team and look like this. Hard not to lose the trade then.

My issue with the trade talk was that it often was along the lines of: "We need to trade Nylander for [insert vague return]". It wasn't that people were talking about some specific player they wanted and Nylander might be the cost, it's that it sometimes seemed like the actual return was secondary. And that's where I think it became irrational.

I have butted heads with a lot of posters over the years here about Nylander, but in most cases I still respect their opinions even if I (severely) disagree. This place would be boring if diverging opinions were seen as something negative.
 
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TheProspector

Registered User
Oct 18, 2007
5,339
1,697
Orlando
My favourite part about Nylander's inevitable PDO regression is that now everyone thinks the guy with 18 goals and 41 points in 45 games putting up a towering 55% ES CF, 55% faceoff win rate, and the guy who has drawn 8 more penalties than he's taken is shit now.
 

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,050
8,224
the Prior
My favourite part about Nylander's inevitable PDO regression is that now everyone thinks the guy with 18 goals and 41 points in 45 games putting up a towering 55% ES CF, 55% faceoff win rate, and the guy who has drawn 8 more penalties than he's taken is **** now.

I know amazing isn't it

Nylander has been on fire basically since he been JT's RW, who knew?
 

HellasLEAF

'93 to Infinity
Sep 14, 2006
15,303
1,719
Nylander is skating more, bringing more lunch pale. And is being rewarded.

The skill wasn't much in doubt. He has now become a real puck hound like Marner.
 

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