Nylander to C - It HAS to Happen

LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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AJ plays a different side than Brown so I don't think you can say that Babcock trusted AJ more during the playoffs. Brown was relied on to carry the defensive load for an entire line, AJ not so much. I just feel like Babcock is big into seniority and Brown having played for the Leafs longer and having to do a ton of low key ****ty work for the Leafs means he will be rewarded this year.

Though the fact the right side is a lot deeper than the left could result in AJ playing a lot more than Brown. That is fair enough.

Yeah I didn't say Babcock trusted AJ more than Brown during the playoffs, I said Babcock's trust with AJ grew a lot in the playoffs. And yeah Johnsson will play more minutes than Brown simply because AJ is probably the best offensively out of the LWs Marleau/Hyman/4thlineLW, but Brown has to share time with 3 other talented RWs (Marner/Nylander/(insert-Brown-here)/Kapanen).

I love Brown, wish he could play LW as well. I like seeing him with Matthews, but him being a RW means that Marner/Nylander won't get to play with Matthews. If he could play LW, Brown - Matthews - Marner/Nylander line would be phenomenal.
 
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LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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In an ideal world, we need mnm each to drive each individual line, and Kadri another

I don't disagree but I don't agree either. Similarly to Pittsburgh/Washington/Tampa/etc, I think stacking the top-2 lines + a talented hardworking 3rd line + heavy forechecking 4th line is ideal. If we had a decent 3C in our system, we could simply let our talented hard-working wingers drive that line (Johnsson for example).

For example, if Aaltonen was a good capable 3C:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander (19 minutes)
Marleau - Kadri - Marner (18 minutes)
Johnsson - Aaltonen - Kapanen/Brown (14 minutes)
 

drewjenks

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Oct 1, 2017
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Canada
With the lack of talented centres on our team, and with the general lack of talented centres in the league, it is important that Nylander be converted to the C position and imo it has to happen as soon as possible.

Actually it is more than just important ... it would essentially be terrible asset management to keep him as a winger, especially when you consider how many good young wingers this team has ready step in and make significant contributions. How many of those wingers could be converted to the C position as well as Willy, who played most of his junior and AHL career as a C.

I’ll be the first to admit that I wasn’t overly impressed by Willy when Matthews was hurt and he was played as a C, but playing as the 3C he could be played in those sheltered minutes that were given to Bozak-JVR for most of the season. Many times there were games where he would backcheck like crazy and strip the puck to start the play in the other direction, so it’s not like he doesn’t have that in him.

Who would he play with? It would be imperative that the highest paid coach in the league earn his keep and find the best combo of wingers for Willy to play with. Ideally he would be given wingers who are puck hounds and who have speed are capable defensively, but also able to snipe a goal here or there. A winger tandem of Hyman and Kappy would look pretty damn good.

I just believe with the increased value given to quality centres over wingers, it’s just incumbent on the team and the coaching staff to make sure they squeeze out every last bit of potential that Willy has as a C. You think a team like the Scabs wouldn’t be in heaven to have a (potential) #1C like Nylander? Marc Bergevin would burst out of his tight-fitting suits if that would happen.

Here it is, the 2019-2020 Stanley Cup winning Toronto Maple Leafs:

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Brown
Hyman - Nylander - Kappy
Marchment - Altonen - Grundstrom

If Tavares signs here this would all be moot of course but I’m not convinced he will come, and if he does it’s at a price that might force to Leafs hand to eventually make a hard decision like trading Willy to shore up the defence.

I'M GONNA HAVE TO RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE:

Number 3 Center is our only offensive hole & I don't see why Nylander HAS to fill it:

- Nylander & Marner are the only proven high-end wingers on the Leafs.
- Nylander's the only player that's shown offensive chemistry with Matthews.
- Matthew's production (and +/-) might drop if Nylander is taken off his wing.
- Kadri's production is dramatically reduced when Marner is taken off his wing.
- Nylander's trade value is already high & a 30 point year at Center could ruin it.

Forcing Nylander to play Center feels like poor asset management to me. We stand to lose more than we gain unless he excels. Marleau is a better option in the short term:

- Marleau's a proven Center & will be defensively responsible at absolute minimum.
- We'll lose a much less valuable top-6 winger, with a much more replaceable skill set.
- We'll gain a more experienced, more versatile & arguable better #3 Center in Marleau.

I'd be happy to start the season with any of the following lineups:

NO UFA FORWARDS ARE SIGNED

HYMAN - MATTHEWS - WILLY
JOHNSON - KADRI - MARNER
BROWN - MARLEAU - KAPPY
GRUNDY - AALTONEN - J.LEIVO

(T.MOORE - LINDHOLM - ENGVALL)
(MARCHY - GAUTHIER - BRACCO)

BOZAK RE-SIGNS (3-5 MIL x 1-3 YRS)

HYMAN - MATTHEWS - WILLY
MARLEAU - KADRI - MARNER

JOHNSON - BOZAK - BROWN
J.LEIVO - AALTONEN - KAPPY

(GRUNDY - LINDHOLM - ENGVALL)
(MOORE - GAUTHIER - MARCHY)

TAVARES SIGNS (9-11 MIL x 7 YRS)

HYMAN - MATTHEWS - WILLY
MARLEAU - TAVARES - MARNER
JOHNSON - KADRI - BROWN
J.LEIVO - AALTONEN - KAPPY
(GRUNDY - LINDHOLM - ENGVALL)
(MOORE - GAUTHIER - MARCHY)

I'm fine with bringing back Bozak if needed. I never saw him or JVR as defensive anchors on their own. It always seemed like their biggest problem was being paired together, which left too much defensive responsibility on the 3rd man. Last year it was Brown (and his production took a nose dive). The year prior it was Marner (who broke out offensively the moment he moved to Kadri's line).

I think Martin needs to go by year end. But a buyout is definitely not the answer if he can't be traded (it saves less cap-space than burying him & creates 2 extra cap-hit years). I'd rather trade him for a higher (1-year) salary that's already on LTIR. For example:

TORONTO GETS: DAVE BOLLAND
Remaining Cap Hit = $5,500,000 x 1 (buried on LTIR)
Remaining Salary = $5,500,000
- Increased usable cap-space in 2018-19 due to LTIR (not important).
- A 1-year contract that will be 100% off the books before 2019-20.
- We'll also avoid carry-over penalties that LTIR can cause (we'll have to sit on some cap space this year since we need around $17,000,000 free for Matthews & Marner next year).


ARIZONA GETS: MATT MARTIN
Remaining Cap Hit = $2,500,000 x 2
Remaining Salary = $750,000 + $1,750,000 = $2,500,000
- $3,000,000 in actual cash savings (they lose money so the owner should be happy).
- Someone healthy who can actually play if he cracks the roster.
- Veteran leadership to help develop their young prospects.
- They never spend to the cap, so Martin's cap hit is meaningless to them.

In my opinion - there is a 0% chance Arizona rejects this trade. They get something for nothing, they have a self imposed cap that's lower than the NHL cap & the owner saves $3,000,000 without the possibility of making his team worse.
 
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DavePoulin4PM

2x NHL all star, Selke winner, NHL exec
Nov 6, 2017
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He’s a floater, who can’t compete defensively as a winger.. yet people think he can be an effective Center. Amazing. It’s like most of you don’t watch games or don’t understand what you’re watching. Nylander got exposed in the playoffs. Badly. He cannot compete in his own end as a center. You can hide defensive liabilities playing the wing.. but not as a center.

Thank god we have a stud coach who understands this. Nylander will never be a full time center as long as Babs is here.. and you can take that to the bank.
 
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Jeffrey Pedler

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Mar 21, 2018
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Nylander is fine at RW, find a cheap free agent option to centre the third line and kill penalties. Our top six is pretty good, we just need to add some defensively responsible players to the bottom six.

Loving the depth at RW with Nylander, Marner, Brown, Kapanen.
 
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DavePoulin4PM

2x NHL all star, Selke winner, NHL exec
Nov 6, 2017
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One thing that I never got is that Nylander has been an elite center at every level, but for some reason he's not given much opportunity to grow into it here.

He was a terrific center in his first call-up year as well, all things considered.

The reason is that he’s a soft, little floater, that lives on the perimeter. He would get eaten alive as a center in the NHL and has already shown that.

This topic just truly shows the difference between fans and NHL brass. It should be extremely obvious to everyone ( it is to NHL people/ people that can evaluate talent) why Nylander will never play Center in the NHL.

It’s mind numbing that this is even a topic.
 
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Rielly4

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Dec 12, 2012
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Nylander should absolutely play C. His game is suited for it and as someone who watched him a lot before he played in the NHL, he is more free in the middle.

He gets trapped on the wall and cant play to his strengths.
 

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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He’s a floater, who can’t compete defensively as a winger.. yet people think he can be an effective Center. Amazing. It’s like most of you don’t watch games or don’t understand what you’re watching. Nylander got exposed in the playoffs. Badly. He cannot compete in his own end as a center. You can hide defensive liabilities playing the wing.. but not as a center.

Thank god we have a stud coach who understands this. Nylander will never be a full time center as long as Babs is here.. and you can take that to the bank.
And if you're wrong?
 
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hullsy47

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Dec 7, 2005
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The reason is that he’s a soft, little floater, that lives on the perimeter. He would get eaten alive as a center in the NHL and has already shown that.

This topic just truly shows the difference between fans and NHL brass. It should be extremely obvious to everyone ( it is to NHL people/ people that can evaluate talent) why Nylander will never play Center in the NHL.

It’s mind numbing that this is even a topic.
if that's the case trade him for a center ,,,because there are wingers in the nhl that would line up to play their nuts off with Mathews ,in my books nylander =max domi galyenchuk money if stays a winger
 

X66

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Aug 18, 2008
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The reason is that he’s a soft, little floater, that lives on the perimeter. He would get eaten alive as a center in the NHL and has already shown that.

This topic just truly shows the difference between fans and NHL brass. It should be extremely obvious to everyone ( it is to NHL people/ people that can evaluate talent) why Nylander will never play Center in the NHL.

It’s mind numbing that this is even a topic.

When has he been eaten alive as a center in the NHL?
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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The reason is that he’s a soft, little floater, that lives on the perimeter. He would get eaten alive as a center in the NHL and has already shown that.

This topic just truly shows the difference between fans and NHL brass. It should be extremely obvious to everyone ( it is to NHL people/ people that can evaluate talent) why Nylander will never play Center in the NHL.

It’s mind numbing that this is even a topic.

Good old Poulin4, often wrong but NEVER uncertain. :laugh::laugh:
 

supermann_98

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May 8, 2002
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He’s a floater, who can’t compete defensively as a winger.. yet people think he can be an effective Center. Amazing. It’s like most of you don’t watch games or don’t understand what you’re watching. Nylander got exposed in the playoffs. Badly. He cannot compete in his own end as a center. You can hide defensive liabilities playing the wing.. but not as a center.

Thank god we have a stud coach who understands this. Nylander will never be a full time center as long as Babs is here.. and you can take that to the bank.
Tell us what how you really feel though.

BTW, stud coach? Yeah ok
 
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therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
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I don't quite get the insistent drive to make Nylander a Centerman??

I wasn't hugely impressed with him as a winger last year. I thought he did well but still has a lot more to give. I'd like to see him succeed as a winger before he mans his own line.

My idea would be to put Matthews and Marner together. Then pair Nylander with Kadri/Marleau and see if they can help Nylander breakout like they did Marner when he was struggling.

?????-Matthews-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
well if Galchenyuk and Drouin can do it then so can Willy:naughty:
 

SniperOnTheWing

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Apr 28, 2017
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It's not hard to tell who the guys are that judged Willy right from draft day and will hate him no matter what. The same guys probably watch nothing but Slap Shot on loop and dream of old time hockey like it's s still the 80's.

One of them even has a certain former assistant GM in his username who was instrumental in the Leafs choice to draft Nylander :sarcasm:
 
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Joey Hoser

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Jan 8, 2008
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In an ideal world, we need mnm each to drive each individual line, and Kadri another

You want to able to roll four lines, but you can't really plan it in so deep like that. If you spread all 4 of those guys onto different lines, then some of them are going to get glued to the bench a lot more than they should, like Matthews already was this past year. If he and Marner get any better, then it's going to make a lot more sense to increase their icetime and opportunities, but if you commit to spreading them out and rolling 4 lines then their never going to get more than the 15-18 minutes they got last year.
 

GoonieFace

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Jun 24, 2013
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Until Nylander shows he can compete on a consistent basis, I cannot seem him being effective as a C. The way he completely avoided physical contact in the playoffs was embarrassing. Marner, who is a toothpick, showed willingness to go into the dirty areas, while pretty boy Nylander observed from afar.
 
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Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
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I just want Willie to be in the top 3 forward minutes played every game and i'm good with him being moved around.
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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Until Nylander shows he can compete on a consistent basis, I cannot seem him being effective as a C. The way he completely avoided physical contact in the playoffs was embarrassing. Marner, who is a toothpick, showed willingness to go into the dirty areas, while pretty boy Nylander observed from afar.
Willy did engage physically until he got completely owned by Zdeno Chara, of many regarded as the most intimidating player in the sport and whom Marner barely saw the ice against. I really don't want to start one of these comparison things these boards are obsessed with, but context is important. Marner has a spirit that Nylander lacks, but this discussion would likely be very different if their roles were reversed.

I'd say that Nylander has already shown he can be effective at center.
 

supermann_98

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May 8, 2002
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Would Nylander bring us a top five pick in this years draft?
I think without a doubt we could get Montreal’s pick for Willy, but I wouldn’t do it even for a chance to get Tkachuk (exactly the type of winger this team needs) or Bouchard/Dobson/Boqvist (potential top pairing RHD).

If free agency started before the draft and we got Tavares I might be inclined to take a top 3-5 pick and roll the dice on one of the RHD, Dobson preferably.
 

paulhiggins

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Feb 4, 2006
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I think Nylander will be traded to a team that sends back a C and a D. Like to Buffalo, for example only, for Rasmus Ristolainen and Ryan O'Reilly. Or traded to Carolina getting Hanifin and Lindholm back.
 
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Duckrider

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Oct 6, 2015
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Ok so Nylander has played wing. But when he is With Matthews they both are C/W. They both play C depending on what side the puck is dropped on. This means he has played for the most part #1C for parts of games but big disaster if he Plays #3C? WTF is wrong with you guys? Both Matthews and Marner are superstars. Nylander is just a Star. Better trade him, only a star.

It also seems no one remembers his time in the AHL. He was first on the wing asd was doing alright, but when he went to Center everything about his game improved.

If he is on the third line he will feast upon the low hanging fruit, just like Kadri did.
 

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