Nylander Discussion

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Blanche Blanche

Torontoooooo
Dec 2, 2017
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Quite possibly. I’m angry on Nylander’s behalf, I can only imagine how his friends on the team feel. Coaches have favourites and that’s common enough to not divide a room. But repeatedly crapping on a guy has got to be bad for morale.

They fill up a team with skill guys and then the coach benches the skill guys and plays the grinders, so all the skill guys are looking sideways at the coach wondering if they’re next in the barrel.

It creates this environment of distrust. The same goes when a boss micromanages.

You do do worse because you are always wondering how NOT to screw up - So I think half the nights they sarcastically skate the system and when they lose, Meh.

Combine that with sitting players when they are hot and scoring, not sitting them when they are fumbling the puck and messing up plays, and line matching to the point if craziness

We wonder why these guys have tuned him out.
 

Canadian Finn

Oskee Wee Wee
Feb 21, 2014
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If someone were to look back on my post history, I have always maintained that Marner is a better player. I also criticized Babcock for hurting Marner’s confidence early in his career. These are special players with elite talent that want to, and should be playing as much as possible. There is a reason there is a growing group of hockey observers that are starting to put the blame squarely on the coaching of this team.


"hockey observers".

:)
 
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usernamezrhardtodo

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Mar 26, 2014
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I really think that AM and Willy are playing to get the coach fired. They seem to do just enough to make it look like they care...but also enough to suck. I agree that he should be benched when he plays like he did last night..but so should AM or MM when they give a poor effort. AM especially seems to get a pass no matter how little he tries. If you look at AM's first couple of years...he was good to very good in his own end...so what happened?

I really don't think you can say that Willy has played well this season when he is on pace for 50pts. AM is on pace for 60 goals (even with such little effort) and Willy has hardly been in on the action. He is getting plenty of time on the wing of AM and not doing much with it. It's sad when Johnnson is out-playing you at 1/2 the cost.
 

Babcocks Marner

It's a magical time
Mar 3, 2015
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Quite possibly. I’m angry on Nylander’s behalf, I can only imagine how his friends on the team feel. Coaches have favourites and that’s common enough to not divide a room. But repeatedly crapping on a guy has got to be bad for morale.

They fill up a team with skill guys and then the coach benches the skill guys and plays the grinders, so all the skill guys are looking sideways at the coach wondering if they’re next in the barrel.

Now this is just my opinion, but I feel Babs has hated Willy for years now. He is always taking little shots at him.

Babs is like an HF poster. He will just hold a grudge against a certain player forever, while other players can do no wrong. He will forgive Hyman instantly, while benching another player for doing the same thing. It's not new with Babs.
 

rumman

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Sep 10, 2008
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he's been the Leafs 2nd best player. If he's going to be benched for having a bad game, why isn't anybody else? As Babcock has proven over and over, he clearly has it out for Nylander
not sure the coach should reward Nylander after his actions on that first goal, but I might be wrong?
 

Walshy7

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Sep 18, 2016
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7 mil for 49 points? Dubas, your a genius.

Kevin Hayes career high 49 points $7.14m

Jvr career high 62 points (good goal scorer though) $7m

Clayton Keller career high 65 points $7m

almost like there is a patter no?
 

Al14

Registered User
Jul 13, 2007
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If this team had leaders someone would fight Nylander in practice. If he doesn’t want to pay the price during the game, he will in practice. It’s that simple.
It takes 2 people to have a fight. Nylander wouldn't fight, as he would not want to mess up his hair!
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
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Nylander can’t even outproduce studs like the Free Russian wallet the leafs got, or a throw in like Connor Brown.

Here's a list of people who also "can't outproduce studs like Free Russian wallet the leafs got, or a throw in like Connor Brown."

Nikita Kucherov
Brayden Point
Patrick Kane
Artemi Panarin
Matt Duchene
Jeff Skinner
Sebastian Aho
Claude Giroux
Tyler Seguin

And it goes on...

Are they all fraud's too?
 

rumman

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Sep 10, 2008
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You are wrong that I said he should be rewarded. If you look at my post again, you'll see I said everyone else should be held accountable for bad plays rather than only Nylander
other than Kappy, all the top six looked indifferent, Marner looked more engaged, but he needs to do way more. I don't know what to say about Mathews, he's like 2 different players and you never know which one is going to show up?
 

socko

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
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Seeing how they don't fight the other team, seems exceptionally doubtful they will be fighting each other. They probably get upset at each other if you violate their personal space and get a little too close.
 

Suntouchable13

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Dec 20, 2003
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Kevin Hayes career high 49 points $7.14m

Jvr career high 62 points (good goal scorer though) $7m

Clayton Keller career high 65 points $7m

almost like there is a patter no?

What we need to find out is if we need this kind of player for 7M? There will have to be changes to this team at some point because they are not a contender as built or as coached.
 

CelticDruid

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Oct 23, 2013
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other than Kappy, all the top six looked indifferent, Marner looked more engaged, but he needs to do way more. I don't know what to say about Mathews, he's like 2 different players and you never know which one is going to show up?


The Sybil Syndrome effect.
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
13,397
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Kevin Hayes career high 49 points $7.14m

Jvr career high 62 points (good goal scorer though) $7m

Clayton Keller career high 65 points $7m

almost like there is a patter no?
I'm not convinced citing other overpaid/under performing players makes the point you think it does, but I could be wrong?
 
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Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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Is there a point where you move him because it won't work here or do you think Babs goes first and the next coach handles him differently?
I don't think anybody of the group that they consider our core goes before Babcock. If things don't change afterwards, Willy might be the right guy to move. He's a bit in Marner's shadow. Willy's optimal usage is running a #1 PP, and he won't do that as long as Marner is here. There might be a team that knows that and is willing to pay full price because of it. But it all depends on getting value and getting the right pieces.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Had a bad game last night, and a pretty good game the one before.

I don't have any issue with Babs benching him last night - though id like to see more consistency there. Because theres no way he pulls that stuff with Matthews or Marner after they've had a bad shift. Its this weord double standard that i think is confusing

A lot of posts in this thresd have been fairly eyeball roll worthy - the way some of you are acting hes the cause of everything wrong with this team - when its clear that the mind has been made up about the guy a long time ago. You dont see praise from the usual suspects after hes had a good game.....

He'll always be the "soft European" no matter what happens on the ice - good or bad.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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other than Kappy, all the top six looked indifferent, Marner looked more engaged, but he needs to do way more. I don't know what to say about Mathews, he's like 2 different players and you never know which one is going to show up?
Did injuries force Matthews to change his game and he can no longer play strong?
That’s a problem. He hasn’t been close to a franchise center. Does he need to move to the wing to compliment how he needs to play? Is it the coach making everyone not care? Too many questions.

Its time for a coach change so all this can be exposed. To betting on the wrong horses and a GM overpaying for guys who are a tier below their salary.
 
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socko

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Nov 26, 2013
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Did injuries force Matthews to change his game and he can no longer play strong?
That’s a problem. He hasn’t been close to a franchise center. Does he need to move to the wing to compliment how he needs to play? Is it the coach making everyone not care? Too many questions.

Its time for a coach change so all this can be exposed. To betting on the wrong horses and a GM overpaying for guys who are a tier below their salary.
Dubas doesn't want it exposed.
 

LeafGrief

Shambles in my brain
Apr 10, 2015
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It creates this environment of distrust. The same goes when a boss micromanages.

You do do worse because you are always wondering how NOT to screw up - So I think half the nights they sarcastically skate the system and when they lose, Meh.

Combine that with sitting players when they are hot and scoring, not sitting them when they are fumbling the puck and messing up plays, and line matching to the point if craziness

We wonder why these guys have tuned him out.
I wonder about a lot of things in life, but I do not wonder about why the Leafs have tuned Babcock out. I do wonder a little bit about the “if” (I’m pretty sold though) but there is zero questions about the why.

Hockey players aren’t oblivious. They know who’s who on the team and who should be doing what. Barely playing Matthews in both Game 7’s for some bonehead reason and every single player in that locker room is going “WTF!??” Even on my peewee house league team with my dad coaching, we knew that we had to put the stars out in the final minutes of the game. The players can see the ego and know what decisions are bad and which are good.

They don’t have to like the guy, they can think he’s an ego maniac asshat, but they do need to trust him. I think they’ve tuned him out because they don’t trust him.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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I'm not convinced citing other overpaid/under performing players makes the point you think it does, but I could be wrong?

Its evidence that the league salaries have shifted. Like its not 2011 anymore when that I'll nd of money was for stat players.

7 million is the current going rate for a 50-60 point guy in ufa. And even rfas whonhit that range over their elcs tend to get 6-7 mil immediately after
 

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
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Whole team should have been stapled to the bench along with Nylander. Only Kapanen had any right to be out there tbh.

The rules for Nylander are obviously different than the rest of the team. Nylander waves his stick at one guy and rides the pine for 20 minutes, while Kerfoot and Johnsson take a thousand penalties and get right back out there. Marner waves his stick at a guy and then plays half the OT. I want Nylander to be better too, but he gets treated differently than anyone. I hate it.

the rules are no different for Nylander, his Jekyll and Hyde play has gone on since he came to NA, he rarely ventures into the "tough area's," he almost never skates through checks nor wins one on ones.

Takes the boy wonder to the woodshed and then rewards him by making him look like a bigger fool with his play after being promised that he would not be traded. It will be interesting to see if Dubas dies on that hill.
Intentions are not promises

That will be the likely scenario

If ALL these players aren't playing up to par, why?
Maybe they just need a different voice....the swagger is completely gone.

I can tell you one thing, if there is a player who isn't leaving it all out on the ice, who only gives a half-assed effort on D occasionally, who the opposition know they never have to worry about his forecheck or even losing a puck to, then there's a problem. This guy bails on at least 4 pucks per game. I can tell you something else, when you have a guy like that on your team, you start to resent it if he get's more playing time then you

Marner had a much better game than Nylander did last night, nowhere near good enough, but better than fly by Willy did.

yep for sure Mitch needs to get it going and soon

We basing things off one game now?

nope, this crap has been part of Willy's game since we first became aware of him, both Dineen and Keefe demoted him and eventually both put him in the press box. He takes too many shifts off, he can be selfish with the puck. What makes most people shake their heads is that he can be a guy who can change a game, the question is why won't he use that ability.

Nylander is a much better player than he is given credit for. Remember, Nylander also played in the AHL where many a night players were taking runs at him on smaller ice. The difference was his coaches used him in all situations as a go to guy. Babcock does not play or treat him the same way. His confidence level has really been hurt, and the way you play is all about confidence.

Willy has lot's of confidence, what he doesn't seem to have is will!
 
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Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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How is it convenient when last yr people blamed it on him not having a training camp .
This yr what's his excuse.
It's not convenient , it's a pattern.
What is the pattern exactly? Most games this year he's been good and engaged. He's getting to the net well, and he's gotten lots of credit for his work on the forecheck.

There's no pattern, other than this happens every time Willy happens to have a bad game, in contrast to how it almost never happen to anybody else on the team*.

* Except for Marner now, unfortunately.
 
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Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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It was very disappointing watching Nylander benched last night. I thought we went through all this last year and it was done.
Added to the fact that Matthews Marner seem to look at each like let’s go play Call of Duty. We out of here.

very sad.
 
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