Nylander Chronicles Part XXVI: Who caves first? Nylander, Dubas, or Bert?

[johnny_rudeboy]

There is no "system", let alone a simple system as you suggest. No idea how any agreement could be made on the definitions of "great" versus "elite" as an example. We like Nylander and he is a very good player. That's about it and very few would disagree with that I'd think.

Nylander is not an elite player yet. He do have elite skills and could very well become an elite player. Right now he is, as you say ”only” a very good player.

 

[Leafs1993]

Seems like he is getting traded. Very disappointing situation. If that is the case, the return better be worth it.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Neither Willy or Trouba are/were holding out. With no contract, they're ineligible to play.

They are as much holding out as the teams wanting to sign them are locking them out.

Wonder what the narrative would be if the media talked about how Nylander was locked out by the Leafs insted of saying he is holding out.

 

[Pookie]

And if the Canes drop their pants and make a stupid offer, we take the compensation and if they make a reasonable offer, we match.

Dubas has played this like a GM who has decades of experience, bravo!

Creating conflict and resentment with a core member of your team isn’t exactly genius.

Waging a PR campaign to hoodwink the public against a “greedy” player is about the only smart thing done here.

 

[nuck]

Please this Canes angle is pure rubbish IMHO

What are they gonna do pay Willie 8m a year when they have Aho to re-sign, he'd demand at least that if not more

The Hurricanes aren't that kind of team

The Canes can comfortably afford to overpay both Aho and Nylander. They only have two forwards making over $2.8M a year and one of those will be gone next season. It doesn't make either player worth $8M but it isn't likely to affect their ability to fit under the cap any time soon.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The "It's not a holdout!" argument is stupid and semantic.

He's holding out from signing a contract. I have no idea why that's wrong to say.

 

[ottomaddox]

I don't know if this was posted yet.

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"However, the Hurricanes are off to a better-than-expected start thanks in part to their top line of Sebastian Aho, Micheal Ferland and Teuvo Teravainen. Waddell might want to boost his secondary scoring and could have interest in the young Leafs forward, yet be reluctant to break up his strong blueline corps. If his club continues to improve, perhaps he'll also look at more affordable offensive options.
The rebuilding Rangers could use Nylander, but they don't have much to offer in terms of quality defensemen. The Leafs could ask for Brady Skjei, but the Rangers probably won't part with him, especially after establishing him as a core piece moving forward and signing him to a long-term contract extension. The Predators are considered a Stanley Cup contender and have no intention of trading any of their top-four defensemen. As for the Oilers, Darnell Nurse would interest the Leafs but, he's not likely going anywhere."

 

[PromisedLand]

Players with loads of skills who play for the Leafs and are up for a contract extension must take into account that a home discount is asked of them. Management will spin the fact that endorsements are more prevalent with players playing in Toronto the Canadian holy grail of hockey.

unlike the trailer park trash like winnipeg, a hockey mecca like Toronto can easily offer these

 

[thewave]

The Canes can comfortably afford to overpay both Aho and Nylander. They only have two forwards making over $2.8M a year and one of those will be gone next season. It doesn't make either player worth $8M but it isn't likely to affect their ability to fit under the cap any time soon.

They have an interesting play. Focus on D and use the inflated values of them in trade to fill out your forward group. Pick something and do it really well, then sell the fruits of your labour and expand into different fields. It's almost as though they put actual thought into how they would team build.

 

[socko]

Neither Willy or Trouba are/were holding out. With no contract, they're ineligible to play.

I don't know the "official NHL" definitions, but I consider what Willy is doing to be a holdout.

Per meriman webster:

1. One that withholds agreement or consent upon which progress is contingent.
2. An act of holding out, especially in refusing to reach an agreement.

What you want to call holdout, I call breach of contract.

 

[Pookie]

Ring ring . . .

DUBAS: Hey, Don, this is Kyle.

WADDELL: Hey Kyle! Are you ready to trade Nylander for Faulk and a second, or Nylander and Gardiner for Pesce? Remember, I told you to look on HFBoards -- those are really terrific offers for the Leafs, you know!

DUBAS: Uh, no, Don. I'm calling to say we aren't really interested but we would take your next four unrestricted firsts, and a second round pick as compensation for not matching.

WADDELL: UNRESTRICTED? Kyle, you must be crazy! You know as well as I do that pretty much anything can happen in four years! Some of those could be lottery picks, or even the ffffirs . . . KYLE, be reasonable here!

Kyle: Don, we've put a lot of thought and effort into this. If you can reach a deal with William, we're fine with that. We'll just decide whether to match if and when we see the offer sheet.

But based on what William is asking, we're just not prepared to accept less than four unprotected firsts, plus something for our time and trouble.

WADDELL: Okay. No can do. We'll let you know if anything changes.

So you think that a team that has traded for rentals for 2 straight seasons, signed 3, 35 year old players, and 11M to JT is ok with weakening their roster in favour of an extra late round draft pick for a few seasons?

Making up the Shanaplan on the fly now?

 

[Pookie]

I don't know the "official NHL" definitions, but I consider what Willy is doing to be a holdout.

Per meriman webster:

1. One that withholds agreement or consent upon which progress is contingent.
2. An act of holding out, especially in refusing to reach an agreement.

What you want to call holdout, I call breach of contract.

How can he breach a contract he doesn’t have?

 

[OVO16]

-Kings offering Muzzin + Pearson ++
-Canes believed to be front-runner in trade talks
-Apparently, the Leafs have serious interest in Pesce as well. Any deal involving the Hurrcianes will be a big multi-player trade
-Leafs and Canes talked a Justin Faulk deal in off-season, didnt go any where. Leafs more interested in Pesce now
-Canes brass has talked to Nylander's Agent (Gross) on a couple of occasions. One source believes contract details were talked about

 

[Nithoniniel]

The "It's not a holdout!" argument is stupid and semantic.

He's holding out from signing a contract. I have no idea why that's wrong to say.

Issue is that it's one-sided. You could just as well say that the team is holding out from signing a different contract.

 

[Pookie]

-Kings offering Muzzin + Pearson ++
-Canes believed to be front-runner in trade talks
-Apparently, the Leafs have serious interest in Pesce as well. Any deal involving the Hurrcianes will be a big multi-player trade
-Leafs and Canes talked a Justin Faulk deal in off-season, didnt go any where. Leafs more interested in Pesce now
-Canes brass has talked to Nylander's Agent (Gross) on a couple of occasions. One source believes contract details were talked about

LeBrun had Faulk rumours this summer involving Kadri, Kapanen and AJ.

Oh boy. This place could get even more divided.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Now that Lou is gone, every jabroni on twitter is spreading Leaf rumours as they are legit

 

[OVO16]

LeBrun had Faulk rumours this summer involving Kadri, Kapanen and AJ.

Oh boy. This place could get even more divided.

Kapanen and AJ could make sense. I don't think Kadri was ever on the table.

If anything, my guess is that Canes asked for Kadri in the Faulk deal but the leafs kept insisting on Kapanen or Johnsson. It's probably why the trade talks went nowhere and why those players were specifically brought up

 

[OVO16]

Now that Lou is gone, every jabroni on twitter is spreading Leaf rumours as they are legit

The Fourth period is pretty reliable. Bob McKenzie and Co. have shouted them out many times and they've broken stories before.

 

[Ciao]

So you think that a team that has traded for rentals for 2 straight seasons, signed 3, 35 year old players, and 11M to JT is ok with weakening their roster in favour of an extra late round draft pick for a few seasons?

Making up the Shanaplan on the fly now?

I don't write the Shanaplan.

I'm not seeing any evidence that the Leafs are willing to trade their CBA right to match any offer on Nylander for table scraps.

If Shanahan has been ruthless in the past, I don't know why that would change now.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

The "It's not a holdout!" argument is stupid and semantic.

He's holding out from signing a contract. I have no idea why that's wrong to say.

If that is how you reason then the Leafs is holding out from offering him a contract he can sign.
Right now no one has promised the other part anything.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If that is how you reason then the Leafs is holding out from offering him a contract he can sign.

Sure. Makes sense to me too. Not sure why "holdout" is a problematic word to use here.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Man I just want Willy signed. I don't really want a shake-up trade. I'll understand if it happens and if Willy signs an 8x8 deal on his new team. I'll just be sad that it didn't work out here. Our boys showed so much and it's a kick in the gut that we've never been 100% with JT so we've never even seen the offseason plan in place

 

[Joey Hoser]

Issue is that it's one-sided. You could just as well say that the team is holding out from signing a different contract.

Yeah sure I would say that. Why not?

Both sides are holding out for the right deal. I don't get what's wrong with that phrasing.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Just trade him for Pesce as a base at this point.
Half the fanbase (including me) has soured on him because of all this, Pesce would allow us the cap space to keep guys like Kapanen long term as well, instead of losing them as cap casualties.
If you can get Pesce + Gauthier for Nylander, or maybe a 1st instead of Gauthier if Carolina likes him enough, you do it

Considering the level of interest in Nylander and his years from UFA status I suspect the leafs can do better than a second pairing D man and a pick.

They should be targeting a potential top pairing d man or a second pair guy and a top 6 forward.

We have to assume that Aho and Svechnikov are off the table but that leaves Teravainen, Ferland, Foegele, Necas, Kuokkanen etc. as forwards who could be added to the deal.

The top pairing d men are Faulk and Slavin.

Faulk + Teravainen for Nylander? Maybe.

 

[Ciao]

Speaking of Jacob Trouba, he won his arbitration case and the Jets gave him a 1-year contract rather than release him to free agency. I believe he still wants to play closer to his birth state of Michigan and Toronto is close to Michigan.

Surely, Kyle Dubas has an eye on Trouba bolstering up the defence which is the Leafs' weakness. The Jets will demand a big return for Trouba and Duba has William Nylander to offer.

Yes, the Jets did accept Trouba's one-year arbitration decision in July 2018.

I was referring to his sitting on the sidelines until Nov. 7, 2016, when he signed a two-year contract coming off his ELC. It seems he's come back to the Jets and played almost two full seasons since then. I don't know why Nylander would not be able to do that with the Leafs as well, even if he signs late, as Trouba did in 2016.

The Leafs could trade him after he signs without taking a reduction in his value due to his contract status.

Jets could do the same with Trouba, but they don't seem too inclined to do so.

Your suggestion that Nylander is done with the Leafs is premature at best, and foolish at worst.