NWHL expands to Toronto

[End on a Hinote]

It only took then until 2020, but the largest womens hockey league in the world officially has a Canadian franchise.

THE NWHL EXPANDS TO TORONTO

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[LadyStanley]

Positive news

 

[HugoSimon]

They should do a season right now.

It'd be ideal for no audience hockey as they already are not making any money from the gate.

It'd be great PR for the league/leagues a give families something to watch.

 

[CanadienShark]

Good news. Bring some attention to the league. Honestly, I didn't know it even existed in this fashion.

 

[nickp91]

Any opportunity for more women to be playing professional hockey is a good thing

 

[ForsbergForever]

Any opportunity for more women to be playing professional hockey is a good thing

Except every member of the Canadian and US national teams are on strike because they'd really like to get past the 'oh isn't that nice, the lady's get to play hockey too' phase and actually earn a living wage and get access to professional trainers and proper facilities instead of having to plan their own workouts and hold down full time jobs to pay the bills.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Except every member of the Canadian and US national teams are on strike because they'd really like to get past the 'oh isn't that nice, the lady's get to play hockey too' phase and actually earn a living wage and get access to professional trainers and proper facilities instead of having to plan their own workouts and hold down full time jobs to pay the bills.

That is very difficult when they’ve never been able to draw enough fans or sponsors to ever afford anything like that. They’re in North American. Sports in North America work like this. You pay out something near what you bring in. If you’re in the NFL, you’re paying out hundreds of millions of dollars because you’re bringing in that much.

The NWHL pays out 50% of revenue to the players. That’s just as high a percentage as any other professional league in North America. It’s just that those revenues are minimal at best. These people on strike need to get over themselves and accept that. No one has the right to do anything for a living. Players in the ECHL, SPHL, FPHL, and leagues all over Europe work second jobs to get by because the leagues don’t have the revenue streams to pay them properly. And that’s just for hockey. Look into American Baseball. These strikers need to get their heads straightened.

 

[tarheelhockey]

They should do a season right now.

It'd be ideal for no audience hockey as they already are not making any money from the gate.

It'd be great PR for the league/leagues a give families something to watch.

Honestly that's a really good idea if plausible. I'm sure the bar for ensuring COVID-free players is probably too high to be practical. But it would make a huge splash if they could somehow get back online before the other team sports, and be the only live broadcast happening.

 

[LadyStanley]

Twitter action

 

[wacko2]

I wonder how many of the "supporters" here will actually spend their money and buy tickets????

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

I wonder how many of the "supporters" here will actually spend their money and buy tickets????

Lol so true.

Now would be the only time people would actually watch them, since no other sports are on tv. Do like a 1 month-ish season followed by 1 month of playoffs.

NWHL Existence: April 2020 - July 2020. RIP

 

[LeHab]

They should do a season right now.

It'd be ideal for no audience hockey as they already are not making any money from the gate.

It'd be great PR for the league/leagues a give families something to watch.

No way they could afford a COVID proof bubble. If anything, gate and sponsorship is all they get. Streaming games on twitch may provide visibility but revenues are not there yet.

Good to see NWHL is not waiting for the Knight in shining armor but takes initiatives to find own solutions.

 

[robertmac43]

I'll definitely be trying to get out to a couple of games when all this covid stuff is behind us. Gotta support these new Women's teams as best we can!

 

[mattihp]

That is very difficult when they’ve never been able to draw enough fans or sponsors to ever afford anything like that. They’re in North American. Sports in North America work like this. You pay out something near what you bring in. If you’re in the NFL, you’re paying out hundreds of millions of dollars because you’re bringing in that much.

North America is also the only place where high school and university team get huge sponsorship deals and audiences. An initial clever marketing campaign could for sure do the same for women's sports. But as they don't have male genitalia it is unlikely to get that boost any time soon, as in Europe where it wouldn't have as big of an effect.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

North America is also the only place where high school and university team get huge sponsorship deals and audiences. An initial clever marketing campaign could for sure do the same for women's sports. But as they don't have male genitalia it is unlikely to get that boost any time soon, as in Europe where it wouldn't have as big of an effect.

North America is also the only place I’m aware of that actually has school-sponsored sports that mean something. High school and college football in the American South is high quality. Women’s national hockey teams regularly lose games to U18 boys teams, particularly America’s losing to New England Prep teams. Male genitalia has nothing to do with it. It is quality of play.

 

[mattihp]

North America is also the only place I’m aware of that actually has school-sponsored sports that mean something. High school and college football in the American South is high quality. Women’s national hockey teams regularly lose games to U18 boys teams, particularly America’s losing to New England Prep teams. Male genitalia has nothing to do with it. It is quality of play.

Sports have made male genitalia part of it as only those who have nards can live off it and don't have to work for a living.

 

[Ernie]

I wonder what venue they'd play in?

Canlan Ice Sports - capacity 1,200
Coca-Cola Coliseum - capacity 7,851
Maple Leaf Gardens - capacity 3,850
Varsity Arena - capacity 4,116

Average attendance was 936 for games in the 2018-2019 season. Toronto would likely have a bit higher attendance though. Maple Leaf Gardens would be a good option for exposure but might be too costly.

 

[vorky]

It only took then until 2020, but the largest womens hockey league in the world officially has a Canadian franchise.

THE NWHL EXPANDS TO TORONTO

the largest womens hockey league in the world? by what definition?

For example, ЖХЛ (Women Hockey League) is run & financed by the KHL. That league has 8 clubs, which is more than the NWHL. ЖХЛ clubs are located at larger geographic area than the NWHL´s, from western & northern Russia to Shenzhen, China. Btw, KRS Vanke Rays Shenzhen is the reigning champion.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Sports have made male genitalia part of it as only those who have nards can live off it and don't have to work for a living.

1. Professional athlete is working for a living. You ever seen the schedule for pro hockey players in both the season and off-season? It's working for a living, don't kid yourself.
2. Some men are good enough to be entertaining and draw enough fans that they can do it for a living. Players in the Fed, SP, and EC aren't good enough to be entertaining to that extent, that's why so many of them work second jobs throughout the year. This isn't a matter of "only men can be paid to do it full time" and never has been. It's a matter of "they're not good enough to be entertaining enough to draw enough fans who are willing to pay them to do it full time" and always has been. They're not good enough to meet that level of entertainment value.

Both the Canadian and American national teams regularly lose to midget and high school teams when they scrimmage them. In 2018, Finland women's top team went on a 20 game tour against U15 teams in the country and only won two times.

Hockey fans realize this. It's why the attendance for those events never draw more than 1.000-2.000. Educate yourself.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Both the Canadian and American national teams regularly lose to midget and high school teams when they scrimmage them. In 2018, Finland women's top team went on a 20 game tour against U15 teams in the country and only won two times.

Seen another way, this is clear evidence of the need for more investment in the women's game.

Biology is one factor in any men's-vs-women's contest, but it's not the only factor. Even a very mature 14-year-old boy should not be able to athletically blow away a fully grown and well trained woman. The only way that happens is if there's A LOT of investment in the boy and marginal investment in the woman. The results of that tour give us a better read on the cultural gap than on the biological gap.

As a comparison, basketball really isolates the physical differences between men and women. However, women's basketball has had way, way more investment than women's hockey. Basketball fans constantly debate the WNBA's level of competition relative to men, and the consensus seems to form around them being similar to lower-level college teams or exceptional high school teams. That's probably about where women pro athletes fall relative to men, given reasonable investment in both sides.

So we come back to hockey. If a WNBA team lost to a bunch of 14-year-olds, people would wonder what the hell was going on. There's something wrong if that happens. The fact that this actually does happen in hockey, the fact that women's hockey teams aren't better compared to lower level OHL teams, is illustrative of the gender gap above and beyond biology.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Seen another way, this is clear evidence of the need for more investment in the women's game.

Biology is one factor in any men's-vs-women's contest, but it's not the only factor. Even a very mature 14-year-old boy should not be able to athletically blow away a fully grown and well trained woman. The only way that happens is if there's A LOT of investment in the boy and marginal investment in the woman. The results of that tour give us a better read on the cultural gap than on the biological gap.

As a comparison, basketball really isolates the physical differences between men and women. However, women's basketball has had way, way more investment than women's hockey. Basketball fans constantly debate the WNBA's level of competition relative to men, and the consensus seems to form around them being similar to lower-level college teams or exceptional high school teams. That's probably about where women pro athletes fall relative to men, given reasonable investment in both sides.

So we come back to hockey. If a WNBA team lost to a bunch of 14-year-olds, people would wonder what the hell was going on. There's something wrong if that happens. The fact that this actually does happen in hockey, the fact that women's hockey teams aren't better compared to lower level OHL teams, is illustrative of the gender gap above and beyond biology.

I would disagree that the game results are because the women aren't maxed out. Coyle Schofield was competitive in the speed competition against the NHL's best. The 3 on 3 game with them play to the best of their ability was not awe-inspiring, but it looked like they were maxing out their biological ability. At least for the American women's team, the exhibition games were not blow outs. Most of the games are competitive. Biologically it is about where they should be. You're looking far too into it if you're thinking that it's indicative of the gender pay gap. Women's collegiate teams in America are full-time and work out just as much as collegiate men's teams, but a game between the two would not even be close.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I would disagree that the game results are because the women aren't maxed out. Coyle Schofield was competitive in the speed competition against the NHL's best. The 3 on 3 game with them play to the best of their ability was not awe-inspiring, but it looked like they were maxing out their biological ability. At least for the American women's team, the exhibition games were not blow outs. Most of the games are competitive. Biologically it is about where they should be. You're looking far too into it if you're thinking that it's indicative of the gender pay gap. Women's collegiate teams in America are full-time and work out just as much as collegiate men's teams, but a game between the two would not even be close.

The example was from Finland, though. If that’s going to be held up as an example of what women are capable of, then we should be fair about providing full context.

If in fact women’s teams are capable of playing at something like a minor league level, and minor league hockey is worth investing to sustain economically, then it follows that women’s hockey is also worth a comparable level of investment.

 

[robertocarlos]

Except every member of the Canadian and US national teams are on strike because they'd really like to get past the 'oh isn't that nice, the lady's get to play hockey too' phase and actually earn a living wage and get access to professional trainers and proper facilities instead of having to plan their own workouts and hold down full time jobs to pay the bills.

"Living wage" is $500k according to them.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The example was from Finland, though. If that’s going to be held up as an example of what women are capable of, then we should be fair about providing full context.

If in fact women’s teams are capable of playing at something like a minor league level, and minor league hockey is worth investing to sustain economically, then it follows that women’s hockey is also worth a comparable level of investment.

The Finland example is more of a testament to the quality the Finnish youth hockey system rather than the women's national team program under-performing for non-biological reasons. Finland has the third best women's national team behind the Canadian and American teams, ahead of many good teams like Russia, Switzerland, and Sweden. It's not like it is some national program that has little investment or success at international tournaments.

Women's hockey teams aren't capable of playing at something like minor league level. Coyne Schofield might be the best women's player in the game. She has the natural, intangible talent and she has trained full-time her entire career. And even she isn't comparable to a NCAA D3 men's player.

Another example are Serena and Venus Williams. At one point the best female athletes in the world, training just as extensively as men's players extending through their entire careers. They claimed in 1998 they could beat anyone outside the Top 200 men's players, acknowledging that even though both sexes can train and play full time, there is still a huge physical and biological difference. They challenged and then lost 5-0, 6-1 and 6-2 to Karsen Braasch. Braasch was a German player who chainsmoked, was never ranked in the Top 200 and hadn't trained in months. The Williams then adjusted their claim to 350, although most pundits estimated it between 500-600. That is the standard, which hasn't changed in the +20 years since. Venus and Serena were, and still might be, the women athletes who represent the pinnacle of athletic achievement through natural talent and intensive training instilled through full-time, year-round endeavors. And they still couldn't hold a candle to middling male athletic performance.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Sports have made male genitalia part of it as only those who have nards can live off it and don't have to work for a living.

Sports didn't make male genitalia a part of anything. Fans choose who they would rather pay to see play. Fans (male and female) decide if they want to spend their money on a product.