News Article: Nuge (Oilers-Senators)

Draiskull

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
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I stated, if you read it thoroughly, that I was invoking the CHIA perspective and specifically stating this is how Chia would see it. Sorry if that wasn't more clear.

Nuge is obviously more talented than Strome. Has had more career consistency, but if we drop Nuge to 3rd line there isn't as much difference as just using Strome there. That part is something I feel.

Really to stay on this club Nuge HAS to pass the Connor audition with flying colors and I think he knows it. His contract isn't attractive here in a 3rd line capacity.
Sorry for not thoroughly reading your essays..
Nuge was 'dropped' to 3rd line earlier this year and he feasted on it. He was still getting plenty ice time despite supposedly being on '3rd line'.

Its just too bad that none of our bargain pickups clicked with Mc or Drai and we are forced to go away from the 3 line model. Imagine where we would be if even 2 of Jokinen\Puljujarvi\Caggiula\Strome \Slepy\ Camallarri or even Lucic produced like top 6 players. All of the above failed with flying colors this year.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,587
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When was the last time the Oilers traded FOR a Nuge/Eberle/Hall level talent?

If we could put together a couple trades like the ones we’ve been on the other end of we’d probably be a top team.

For now I’d settle for us not trading away our few talented players for underwhelming returns. Can we just keep Nuge please?
Paajarvi+2nd for Perron.

But keep in mind that Hoffman is a Nuge/Eberle level talent. You're getting a more talented offensive player than Nuge in this deal. Forget about Hall level though, we're not going to get a player like him again through trade.
 
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rambo97

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Jan 2, 2018
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Trade's not happening. Bruch Garrioch whose very close with Dorion said no talks of Nuge for Hoffman have taken place and won't be either. On Inside Sports Reid Wilkins said same last night. Said Oilers aren't interested in downgrading Nuge for Hoffman.
 

McDaddy

ruh roh
Jan 22, 2017
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Trade's not happening. Bruch Garrioch whose very close with Dorion said no talks of Nuge for Hoffman have taken place and won't be either. On Inside Sports Reid Wilkins said same last night. Said Oilers aren't interested in downgrading Nuge for Hoffman.
Right, it'll be for Karlsson. :naughty:
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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I don't see Nuge for Hoffman. It's gonna be Klefbom for Hoffman.

I love make believe.

No idea how anyone think RNH > Hoffman.

It’s not like RNH is some defensive stalwart. Just because they try to make him be that, doesn’t make him it. It’s one of the reasons the team isn’t good.

Toss in RNH history of injuries, even just a stat watcher can see Hoffman is a much bigger contributor.
 
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Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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I love make believe.

No idea how anyone think RNH > Hoffman.

It’s not like RNH is some defensive stalwart. Just because they try to make him be that, doesn’t make him it. It’s one of the reasons the team isn’t good.

Toss in RNH history of injuries, even just a stat watcher can see Hoffman is a much bigger contributor.

Depends on what criteria you're using. If we're talking goal scoring Hoffman is obviously better than RNH. But then so was Eberle who was traded for significantly less return than the one we're discussing here. But RNH is clearly the more versatile player, he's also younger and under contract for longer. So it's not just about comparing stat lines, it's looking at the bigger picture.
 

Shizuka

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Mar 16, 2002
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Trade's not happening. Bruch Garrioch whose very close with Dorion said no talks of Nuge for Hoffman have taken place and won't be either. On Inside Sports Reid Wilkins said same last night. Said Oilers aren't interested in downgrading Nuge for Hoffman.
Good, glad to hear they are not entertaining downgrading from C depth to add a W, even if it is a Hoffman type shooter. Still don't understand what Dorion is looking at on the roster however... odd to have a primary scout with eyes on the games during this stretch of the season, playing out the string.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
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Draisaitl and McDavid work in good part because Draisaitl is supremely talented and can think the game like McDavid does. But also because Draisaitl can protect the puck incredibly well which typically draws extra attention to him freeing up McDavid. If you try to focus too much on McDavid Leon can beat you in many ways. Hoffman is a very different kind of player. He is much more of a third wheel whose primary skill is his shot. But he is not at the level of the elite goals scores.

I don't see it as flexibility to force a situation where you have to play Leon away from McDavid because you have no one else who can play in that slot. That is the opposite of flexibility.

You also seem to be arguing against yourself here. On one hand you say that it does not matter who plays the wing with these guys but then you say that you need a guy like Hoffman so that Leon does not have to play RW when his wingers fail him. Which is it?

If that's your opinion of Hoffman, you've never seen him play. If anything he's more of a puck hog than a third wheel.

Hoffman has outproduced RNH every year he's been in the league except for his first, which was close. And most of the time he's been playing with lesser linemates because he can carry a line.

RNH is younger, so the value is pretty damned close. No way Ottawa adds a player like Pageau to balance it out. And certainly not with a 3rd round pick making up the difference.
 

rambo97

Registered User
Jan 2, 2018
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^^Fourier is much closer on his evaluation than the above post. Hoffman is not a line driver and he is not the type of player that carries the puck into the zone and sets up teammates or himself for scoring chances. He is an amazing sniper and one that gets himself into position to get his amazing one timer off. That is why he has worked so amazing with Duchene. Hoffman is also a great shoot out option.

His weaknesses though are his defensive play and his inability to drive a line by himself. You appear to be a Sens fan and your fans have made similar comments in the past.

Could he work with McDavid sure. But why downgrade from C for a W when the whole league is looking for C depth. I don’t have a Problem moving Nuge but it better be for an upgrade on D.

Now if we are moving Nuge++ for Karlsson then absolutely. For Hoffman f that
 

Draiskull

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Oct 26, 2005
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Depends on what criteria you're using. If we're talking goal scoring Hoffman is obviously better than RNH. But then so was Eberle who was traded for significantly less return than the one we're discussing here. But RNH is clearly the more versatile player, he's also younger and under contract for longer. So it's not just about comparing stat lines, it's looking at the bigger picture.
look at any criteria and RNH is better than Hoffman this year..
Hoffman averages over 3mins\game on PP and does not kill penalties at all. RNH plays 1:47\game on PP and 1:41\g on PK.

Hoffman has played 130 more minutes on the PP than RNH this year and only has 21 goals in 70 games.. RNH has 19 in 52 GP... Hoffman isnt even the better goal scorer this year.
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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Depends on what criteria you're using. If we're talking goal scoring Hoffman is obviously better than RNH. But then so was Eberle who was traded for significantly less return than the one we're discussing here. But RNH is clearly the more versatile player, he's also younger and under contract for longer. So it's not just about comparing stat lines, it's looking at the bigger picture.

How us he more versitile? Just because he's been put in a shutdown role, doesn't make him a shutdown player. It's probably one reason the Oil sit in where they do in the standings. I mean, if it was working, they wouldn't be better than 6th worst in the NHL for goals against? i mean, if you're talking about him being able to play center or winger.. that maybe equals out to a couple goals, but not remotely the point total they have separating them. Heck, that could be offset by RNH injures.

Contract and age certainly add value, but let's not pretend Hoffman is ancient.
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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look at any criteria and RNH is better than Hoffman this year..
Hoffman averages over 3mins\game on PP and does not kill penalties at all. RNH plays 1:47\game on PP and 1:41\g on PK.

Hoffman has played 130 more minutes on the PP than RNH this year and only has 21 goals in 70 games.. RNH has 19 in 52 GP... Hoffman isnt even the better goal scorer this year.

This logic is just amazing. The "if" logic. IF he had those chances he would be better than isn't exactly a rock solid argument.

Otherwise you can cite every 4th liner doesn't get x time so they are better than x player. That's amazing rationalization there. Well done.
 

Draiskull

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
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This logic is just amazing. The "if" logic. IF he had those chances he would be better than isn't exactly a rock solid argument.

Otherwise you can cite every 4th liner doesn't get x time so they are better than x player. That's amazing rationalization there. Well done.
I didnt say a single IF in the post you quoted. RNH HAS 19 goals this season despite missing 20 games. Hoffman does have only 21 goals despite getting prime offensive opportunities. These are facts not 'but\ifs'.
 
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nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
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This logic is just amazing. The "if" logic. IF he had those chances he would be better than isn't exactly a rock solid argument.

Otherwise you can cite every 4th liner doesn't get x time so they are better than x player. That's amazing rationalization there. Well done.

If you knew what context meant then what he is saying makes perfect sense.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
85,950
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Depends on what criteria you're using. If we're talking goal scoring Hoffman is obviously better than RNH. But then so was Eberle who was traded for significantly less return than the one we're discussing here. But RNH is clearly the more versatile player, he's also younger and under contract for longer. So it's not just about comparing stat lines, it's looking at the bigger picture.

Prior to his injury, Nuge was keeping pace with Eberle in terms of goal scoring. I'm not sure that Ebs is still the better
goal scorer since IMO we have yet to see the best of Nuge while IMO we have seen the best that Eberle has to offer

I didnt say a single IF in the post you quoted. RNH HAS 19 goals this season despite missing 20 games. Hoffman does have only 21 goals despite getting prime offensive opportunities. These are facts not 'but\ifs'.

Nuge is getting better, Hoffman seems to have peaked more or less. I'd much rather keep the younger player with more upside that can play a much more important position. I would love to add Hoffman but not for Nuge, no ****ing way.
 

Draiskull

Registered User
Oct 26, 2005
23,320
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If you knew what context meant then what he is saying makes perfect sense.
whatever...
Nuge 15 ES goals in 52GP, Hoffman 13 ES goals in 70GP
Nuge 4 PPG in 93 PP minutes ... Hoffman 8 PPG in 223 PP mins.

PP edge goes to Hoffman so I guess we can use him to replace Draisaitl on our PP.
 
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Mcnotloilersfan

I'm here, I'm bored
Jul 11, 2010
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Count me in the crowd that says no way to trading RNH unless it is for a top pair offensive dman. Having RNH/Drai is an incredible luxery. Both play well with Connor, and the other can always flank the 2nd line.
 

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
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How us he more versitile? Just because he's been put in a shutdown role, doesn't make him a shutdown player. It's probably one reason the Oil sit in where they do in the standings. I mean, if it was working, they wouldn't be better than 6th worst in the NHL for goals against?

Really? I mean...really?

i mean, if you're talking about him being able to play center or winger.. that maybe equals out to a couple goals, but not remotely the point total they have separating them. Heck, that could be offset by RNH injures

Can play C or W and can play in all situations. IMO you're undervaluing RNH here.

Contract and age certainly add value, but let's not pretend Hoffman is ancient.

He'll be 29 next year and there should be some consideration given to the fact that most players start to see their scoring rates start to drop off at that point.

I'd be fine grabbing Hoffman for the next two seasons and then flipping him again or letting him walk, but not at the price of RNH.
 
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PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
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^^Fourier is much closer on his evaluation than the above post. Hoffman is not a line driver and he is not the type of player that carries the puck into the zone and sets up teammates or himself for scoring chances. He is an amazing sniper and one that gets himself into position to get his amazing one timer off. That is why he has worked so amazing with Duchene. Hoffman is also a great shoot out option.

His weaknesses though are his defensive play and his inability to drive a line by himself. You appear to be a Sens fan and your fans have made similar comments in the past.

Could he work with McDavid sure. But why downgrade from C for a W when the whole league is looking for C depth. I don’t have a Problem moving Nuge but it better be for an upgrade on D.

Now if we are moving Nuge++ for Karlsson then absolutely. For Hoffman f that

Carrying a line might be going a little far in my post, but he can be effective playing with defensive players, the driving offensive force on the line.

Hoffman's weaknesses are for sure is defensive game, and he isn't hard on the boards or physical. But he absolutely can carry the puck, and does so a lot. Him being a puck hog is absolutely accurate, he likes to carry it in and dish it off so he can get free for a one timer. Or have a little skate, then drive towards the net and let one rip. He's a better playmaker than you give him credit for, but the shoot first mentality is what drives him.

His shot is elite, his speed and agility is elite. But he was the warts I described before. Like most players that aren't the McDavids of the world.

I don't want to trade him for RNH, especially given how well he works with Duchene. Which is probably why the Senators decided to move out Brassard instead. The Sens are loaded with solid prospects at center, they need wingers more. And Pageau has looked solid when given 2nd line responsibilites and linemates anyway.

The whole point of the comment was to make clear that Hoffman + for Nuge is just silly. Especially if that plus is Pageau.

You wanna keep RNH? Awesome. I wanna keep Hoffman.
 

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