News Article: Nuge (Oilers-Senators)

[ConnorMcMullet]

There's no indication that he would. Infact, few players stats increase dramatically with star players. I highly doubt he would produce much more than he does now

TBH, nobody has really gotten that much better with McDavid so far

Patrick Maroon?

 

[McGoMcD]

We need speed. Nuge is one of the few players that has what we need. you don't trade him. Really worried about 3 C's. you look into trade Drai, not nuge. And no I don't want either gone.

 

[Yablo21]

Don't trade Jesse until he grows into his bambi legs
Hes nineteen and 6'4" when he fills out he'll be a beast.
He already has some edge in his game and is only going to get better.
Best thing Oilers can do is stand pat, add some wingers via free agency.

The fact that Jesse or Slep have not been given a chance in the top 6 is a travesty, especially considering how much time Aberg and looch have wasted up there

 

[bobbythebrain]

Patrick Maroon?

Was on a 40 point pace in Ana before he got fat. Is currently almost a ppg in NJ. His goals definitely went up with McD, but overall production...very little. Also about usage. In Ana he admitted his job was to work the boards and get the puck to Perry and Getz. In Edm it was to goto the net

If he was playing someone like Backstrom and the game plan was to crash the nest, I'm sure he would be in the 20+ goal range also

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

You're stating a hypothetical prorated pace That Nuge has never scored, and never will (I would bet on it) and pretending that's real. Nuge DIDN'T score 30 goals this year did he. He's never even scored 25 in his career.

lol, now we're counting shootouts.

Anyway, somehow you got the wrong sequence above. I'll say it again.. the two week span before the Injury Nuge was doing nothing. He was Injured Jan 13 So that means to me anyway,, December 31-January 13. As I stated. Nuge had 1G 1A in that 8 game timeframe. So how was I wrong?

It doesn't really matter if THIS season in isolation supports the idea of trading him. With a player that basically cratered the last two seasons before I think that this is the only opportunity that might present itself.

Really after witnessing the last two seasons before this how could I be a Nuge fan? The sense I get is an immense talent that rarely gives his all and that I don't think ever will. I see his talent. I don't see the desire from this player to be anymore than what he has been.

Nuge simply isn't the player that will go through 82 games of punishment to be a consistent producer. Whether its pain, fear, physically taxing, I don't know. But he never gives his all for very long.

I'll take that bet. If he's on McDavid's line the remainder of even this year he'll hit 25, I'll use whatever HFBoards currency you deem worthy. And if he's with us next year, i'll take that 30 bet too.

You're holding the last two seasons against him still, and frankly ignoring everything positive with the player this season. He's been very good. You've chosen a 2 week span in 4 months of hockey to judge this player. I was under the impression your approach didn't really involve short poor streaks of play to cloud the accomplishments of a player's overall season. Then again, I know Nuge isn't on your list of player's who've earned your ever so sought after leeway, but it hardly seems fair to discount the rest of his season when discussing his value.

Even if you go Dec. 31 - Jan 13, the team scored 11 goals in those 8 games. Nuge still contributed to 2 out of the 11 goals scored by the team in that span (18%). Judging any one player over that **** streak of collective team failure is a poor indicator, further it's picking out a comparatively diminutive sample of an otherwise great rebound season.

I disagree on the desire. I see it.
I don't think any amount of trying to convince you otherwise will alter your perception of the player, however; you've made up your mind, and that's fine. His draft pedigree and expectations have never been met, but I believe we have a more than useful 25/35/60 guy on our hands over 82 games when he's playing freely and taking more risks offensively.

Prorated, but not proven. I have to think the only thing that would change you mind is if the latter happens, so i'm willing to take those bets in favour of Nuge.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

It's amazing that there are people who defended the Reinhart trade... who defended the Hall trade... who defended the Eberle trade.

But this potential deal, one that actually is reasonably close in value, is the one that is going to make you want to fire Chia.

He's made the worst trade in the league three summers running, and this is the rumoured one that breaks the camels back for some of you.

This is a super limited number of posters you're calling out.
Most people defending keeping Nuge hated (still hate) every single one of those above mentioned trades, myself included.

 

[t0nedeff]

It's amazing that there are people who defended the Reinhart trade... who defended the Hall trade... who defended the Eberle trade.

But this potential deal, one that actually is reasonably close in value, is the one that is going to make you want to fire Chia.

He's made the worst trade in the league three summers running, and this is the rumoured one that breaks the camels back for some of you.

Hated the Hall and the Eberle one even more because the guy he brought back is literally not good enough to be on an NHL team period. Is this your observational post with no correct observations to be seen type post? The whole point this is the potential trade that could make us quit is because of the previous 2 like how many trades does the team need to be dummied on? Hey this proposal is fine because the other ones sucked more nah how about this proposal sucks and the other ones sucked.

 

[t0nedeff]

double post

 

[McAsuno]

Don't trade Jesse until he grows into his bambi legs
Hes nineteen and 6'4" when he fills out he'll be a beast.
He already has some edge in his game and is only going to get better.
Best thing Oilers can do is stand pat, add some wingers via free agency.

The fact that Jesse or Slep have not been given a chance in the top 6 is a travesty, especially considering how much time Aberg and looch have wasted up there

Don't forget Cammalleri.

 

[thadd]

Sens likely add a center since Nuge pushes one of Pageau or Smith to the fourth line. Would prefer JGP, but Smith would not be terrible either. Both help the third line.

Nuge + NJ/NYI 3rd '19 for Hoffman + JGP/Smith.

Yeah if that's what the price would cost then I'm 100% convinced that Hoffman will not be coming to Edmonton.
Hoffman won't outproduce Hopkins on McDavid's wing.

Edmonton can go McDavid-Drai-Strome for top 3 centers.
The idea of Edmonton overpaying to such a disgusting degree just so that their 1st line LW is a natural LW instead of a center is Pejorative Slured.

 

[HenrikW]

Here it is again, Oiler fans overvaluing their own assets and setting themselves up for disappointment.
RNH for Hoffman is a very fair trade. I too value RNH's versatility over Hoffman but Hoffman is a 25-30 goal, 60 point player and has one of the best shots in the league. This is a guy who could very well score 40 on McDavid or Drai's wing so lets not act like the Oilers would get ripped off in this trade.

I'm not saying that I'd be over the moon about this trade but some of you are greatly overvaluing RNH here, and before anybody says it, Hoffman is not the same player as Eberle. He's fast and his shot is lethal, he doesn't spend any time dusting it off like Eberle did.

+1. The only concern I have with Hoffman is that we're getting older and we're taking on shorter term. I would love to see if we could get someone like Jeff Skinner from a similar deal instead. By the time McD is 25 Hoffman has turned 33

 

[fuswald]

+1. The only concern I have with Hoffman is that we're getting older and we're taking on shorter term. I would love to see if we could get someone like Jeff Skinner from a similar deal instead. By the time McD is 25 Hoffman has turned 33

33 years old and 7 mil plus til he's 37 or 38.

I think Nuge has finally grown. Datsyuk lite.

If he's getting traded don't make it an old guy.

Edmonton Oilers retirement home for declining hockey players.

Looches check in but they don't check out.

 

[SourOil]

33 years old and 7 mil plus til he's 37 or 38.

Looches check in but they don't check out.

Hotel Edmonton Oilers.

Love Nuge - but I think you can move on from him if Strome is slotted in that 3rd spot. That is unless they've committed to utilizing him as a winger. You can run McD -> Drai -> Strome -> Jujar down the middle.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

33 years old and 7 mil plus til he's 37 or 38.

I think Nuge has finally grown. Datsyuk lite.

If he's getting traded don't make it an old guy.

Edmonton Oilers retirement home for declining hockey players.

Looches check in but they don't check out.

Oh I think Looch has already checked out. He just hasn't left.

Sorry, too easy.

 

[yababy]

Why Nugent-Hopkins is auditioning for both Oilers and Senators - Sportsnet.ca

Pierre Dorion has attended the last 2 Oilers games. There's speculation PD is scouting Nugey. If Chia trades him (especially for Hoffman which has been speculated), I don't know if I can follow this team anymore. That would be the icing on top.

I'm not forgetting Nuge's 0 goals and 4 points in 13 playoff games last year.
I agree that we should move him, but I'd prefer to a guy like Brendan Gallagher who makes 1.5M less than Hoffman. I'd do this only if Montreal takes on all the extra Nugent-Hopkins cap hit

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll take that bet. If he's on McDavid's line the remainder of even this year he'll hit 25, I'll use whatever HFBoards currency you deem worthy. And if he's with us next year, i'll take that 30 bet too.

You're holding the last two seasons against him still, and frankly ignoring everything positive with the player this season. He's been very good. You've chosen a 2 week span in 4 months of hockey to judge this player. I was under the impression your approach didn't really involve short poor streaks of play to cloud the accomplishments of a player's overall season. Then again, I know Nuge isn't on your list of player's who've earned your ever so sought after leeway, but it hardly seems fair to discount the rest of his season when discussing his value.

Even if you go Dec. 31 - Jan 13, the team scored 11 goals in those 8 games. Nuge still contributed to 2 out of the 11 goals scored by the team in that span (18%). Judging any one player over that **** streak of collective team failure is a poor indicator, further it's picking out a comparatively diminutive sample of an otherwise great rebound season.

I disagree on the desire. I see it.
I don't think any amount of trying to convince you otherwise will alter your perception of the player, however; you've made up your mind, and that's fine. His draft pedigree and expectations have never been met, but I believe we have a more than useful 25/35/60 guy on our hands over 82 games when he's playing freely and taking more risks offensively.

Prorated, but not proven. I have to think the only thing that would change you mind is if the latter happens, so i'm willing to take those bets in favour of Nuge.

Confusing post. In one hand you're saying I'm looking at short sample, in same post you're saying don't look at the last 2 seasons to judge Nuge.

Why would I just eliminate from my mind that Nuge had a really off year last season with .494ppg production (reg/playoffs) with only 18goals and was particularly bad in his first playoffs. Not forgetting as well that he contributed only 34pts and 12 G the year before. So that to me this is a player that picks his spots. can look good in some games/stretches and then be non productive. I cited the two week stint this season because its some indication Nuge was hitting a wall before injury. Looking at his play in those games I saw him being much more vanilla in offense and not generating much. That's the Nuge lite game he reverts to when he isn't fresh.

The latter point being why I don't think you can pencil in a Nuge for a full season of McD. That would take an immense toll, and not particularly good for McD either. Both McD and Nuge have taken a lot of punishment since nobody big has been on that line. I don't think its entirely coincidental. If you have Nuge and Aberg playing with McD opponents are going to look at that and take liberties. Certainly more than they would if say, Maroon, Draisaitl, Lucic were adding some beef on the line.

The poster I was responding to suggested that playing with McD Nuge could get 80pts. I would bet anybody that won't occur. That figure is pretty out there for a player with a peak of 56pts that had played longterm with Hall and Eberle who were driving more production. Its not like Nuge was playing with subpar players. The linemates ELEVATED his point production. Particularly because he had a good linemate on either side.

The 30 goals? Tell you what. If Nuge is playing with McD he SHOULD get 30 goals (I mean Maroon bagged 27 in that capacity) but I'll take the bet anyway. I'm certainly confident 80pts isn't ever happening for Nuge. But 30 goals riding shotgun with McD is perhaps possible.

I'm fine with gentleman bet, avatar stakes, whatever you want to do with it how you want to structure it. Not sure how it works though. If Nuge fails to hit 80pts but scores 31 goals does anybody win the bet or is it a draw?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just as a summary comment, and the deal ain't on anyway so its moot point but take a look over at the other side, the sens board and not ONE poster there does Hoffman for Nuge trade. Not one. They are laughing at the suggestion that this is an equitable deal for them. They find the suggestion that the Sens could add in that deal reprehensible. As in no way in hell.

Now that's not objective either, I'm not citng it for that. But the interesting thing is that with the Hall-Larsson trade reaction in NJ was mixed because fans liked Larsson. But they were very excited at the return, felt they got a ringer, and most of the Devils fans were accepting the deal if not quite thrilled by it.

FF to NYI Strome deal and its the scenario where Islanders fans are saying things like "I'll drive Strome to the airport for this deal." Islanders fans were pleased to get Eberle for someone they felt was a tweener.

But in Nugent Hopkins for Hoffman deal NO Senator fan wants this. They want no part of this.

Isn't that at least interesting cross perspective?

As many have stated this Nuge -Hoffman deal, albeit hypothetical is equal value at worst. With Hoffman having better boxcars all of the last 4 seasons and the much sought after one time shot. He's also a better playmaker than Nuge.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Confusing post. In one hand you're saying I'm looking at short sample, in same post you're saying don't look at the last 2 seasons to judge Nuge.

Why would I just eliminate from my mind that Nuge had a really off year last season with .494ppg production (reg/playoffs) with only 18goals and was particularly bad in his first playoffs. Not forgetting as well that he contributed only 34pts and 12 G the year before. So that to me this is a player that picks his spots. can look good in some games/stretches and then be non productive. I cited the two week stint this season because its some indication Nuge was hitting a wall before injury. Looking at his play in those games I saw him being much more vanilla in offense and not generating much. That's the Nuge lite game he reverts to when he isn't fresh.

The latter point being why I don't think you can pencil in a Nuge for a full season of McD. That would take an immense toll, and not particularly good for McD either. Both McD and Nuge have taken a lot of punishment since nobody big has been on that line. I don't think its entirely coincidental. If you have Nuge and Aberg playing with McD opponents are going to look at that and take liberties. Certainly more than they would if say, Maroon, Draisaitl, Lucic were adding some beef on the line.

The poster I was responding to suggested that playing with McD Nuge could get 80pts. I would bet anybody that won't occur. That figure is pretty out there for a player with a peak of 56pts that had played longterm with Hall and Eberle who were driving more production. Its not like Nuge was playing with subpar players. The linemates ELEVATED his point production. Particularly because he had a good linemate on either side.

The 30 goals? Tell you what. If Nuge is playing with McD he SHOULD get 30 goals (I mean Maroon bagged 27 in that capacity) but I'll take the bet anyway. I'm certainly confident 80pts isn't ever happening for Nuge. But 30 goals riding shotgun with McD is perhaps possible.

I'm fine with gentleman bet, avatar stakes, whatever you want to do with it how you want to structure it. Not sure how it works though. If Nuge fails to hit 80pts but scores 31 goals does anybody win the bet or is it a draw?

More so trying to draw attention to the fact that this season is not the one to call Nuge out on poor play.
The previous 2 years can not be defended well, but this season can be. No one is asking you to eliminate, but I would request/suggest you add the current season's overall individual traction. Calling out his play this year is what I'm refuting.

Far as the points regarding the toll on McD and Nuge, decent discussion. It's a matter of finding a RW that can compliment with a bit of crash and bang, even if it isn't a straight out enforcer role. For example, I think Slepyshev would fit nice on the wing as a shooter and space creator. With current pieces we have anyways. Pursuing a piece similar to Maroon on the right side would be ideal.

Let's benchmark the bet at goal scoring only. I'll take it further, I will say he scores 30 goals next year regardless of his line mates. Outlier is at least 75 games played.
I'm not great at stakes, if you have a more creative idea than a gentlemen's bet, have at her. I agree to any terms. Perhaps we can poll the HFOil faithful.

 

[Drivesaitl]

More so trying to draw attention to the fact that this season is not the one to call Nuge out on poor play.
The previous 2 years can not be defended well, but this season can be. No one is asking you to eliminate, but I would request/suggest you add the current season's overall individual traction. Calling out his play this year is what I'm refuting.

Far as the points regarding the toll on McD and Nuge, decent discussion. It's a matter of finding a RW that can compliment with a bit of crash and bang, even if it isn't a straight out enforcer role. For example, I think Slepyshev would fit nice on the wing as a shooter and space creator. With current pieces we have anyways. Pursuing a piece similar to Maroon on the right side would be ideal.

Let's benchmark the bet at goal scoring only. I'll take it further, I will say he scores 30 goals next year regardless of his line mates. Outlier is at least 75 games played.
I'm not great at stakes, if you have a more creative idea than a gentlemen's bet, have at her. I agree to any terms. Perhaps we can poll the HFOil faithful.

Even if COMBINE the last 3 seasons the boxcars are bad for Nuge. That is not insignificant. Really we're looking at just over 100 pts contributed over the last 3 seasons and paying 18M for that. That's including this season. Nuge probably bumps that up to around 110 pts in remainder of games but still. What kind of ACTUAL return on investment is that from a #1 pick high paid topsix player?

Heres some Chia thought I am pondering (yuck);
Even on basis of respective contributions this season we got 35pts from Nuge and 31 from Strome. With Nuge getting much better looks, linemates, and more PP time. With Strome playing a lot of his minutes in bottomsix or around the lineup. Thing is Strome had periods just as hot as Nuge this season when he's played Center. I'm concerned that's how Chia will see this season. It won't escape Chia's attention either that Strome has 90pts in last 3 seasons combined. Only 13 back of what Nuge has contributed in same timespan. This is the way Chia thinks.

I'm not a Strome fan by any way, just interesting how the actual production contributed is similar. (yes I realize Nuge was injured and missing games but Nuge has been injured 2/3 seasons now missing considerable games) Strome seems more durable. Strome same age, with some potential to improve.

Heres an interesting thing. Had the Oilers traded Eberle for Hoffman last season, and Nuge for Strome this offseason these are understandable, comprehensible deals. The Oilers get same position player, even Nuge for Strome can make some sort of sense from a cap perspective. If the deals were done that way they become more plausible. You don't want to be paying your 3C what Nuge makes, you want a payscale more like Strome makes at that position.

The depressing thing for Nuge fans is you know the Oilers suddenly kicking Nuge up to McD means they are either pumping him or seeing what he can do up there in a different position. With Oilers using Khaira and Strome at Center you know they are kicking tires on what they got for 3C options should the team move Nuge. This is what the team is looking at currently. These games are being watched intently. Good for Nuge to rise to the short term challenge but where is this level of effort from him most of the time?

30 goals for Nuge with or without McD, sure. tbh I often don't even make people honor the bets. I win usually, just so you know Its just fun. You're definitely the type of poster that will at least acknowledge it later one way or the other.

cheers, and thanks for the discussion

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm not forgetting Nuge's 0 goals and 4 points in 13 playoff games last year.
I agree that we should move him, but I'd prefer to a guy like Brendan Gallagher who makes 1.5M less than Hoffman. I'd do this only if Montreal takes on all the extra Nugent-Hopkins cap hit

That's what happens when you are connected at the hip to Eberle who was by far our worst player in the postseason.

 

[Little Fury]

I'm not forgetting Nuge's 0 goals and 4 points in 13 playoff games last year.

You should because it's meaningless.

 

[Yablo21]

Don't forget Cammalleri.

And now Rattie, serious WTF, I hate Todd so much right now.

 

[Draiskull]

Even if COMBINE the last 3 seasons the boxcars are bad for Nuge. That is not insignificant. Really we're looking at just over 100 pts contributed over the last 3 seasons and paying 18M for that. That's including this season. Nuge probably bumps that up to around 110 pts in remainder of games but still. What kind of ACTUAL return on investment is that from a #1 pick high paid topsix player?

Heres some Chia thought I am pondering (yuck);
Even on basis of respective contributions this season we got 35pts from Nuge and 31 from Strome. With Nuge getting much better looks, linemates, and more PP time. With Strome playing a lot of his minutes in bottomsix or around the lineup. Thing is Strome had periods just as hot as Nuge this season when he's played Center. I'm concerned that's how Chia will see this season. It won't escape Chia's attention either that Strome has 90pts in last 3 seasons combined. Only 13 back of what Nuge has contributed in same timespan. This is the way Chia thinks.

I'm not a Strome fan by any way, just interesting how the actual production contributed is similar. (yes I realize Nuge was injured and missing games but Nuge has been injured 2/3 seasons now missing considerable games) Strome seems more durable. Strome same age, with some potential to improve.

Heres an interesting thing. Had the Oilers traded Eberle for Hoffman last season, and Nuge for Strome this offseason these are understandable, comprehensible deals. The Oilers get same position player, even Nuge for Strome can make some sort of sense from a cap perspective. If the deals were done that way they become more plausible. You don't want to be paying your 3C what Nuge makes, you want a payscale more like Strome makes at that position.

The depressing thing for Nuge fans is you know the Oilers suddenly kicking Nuge up to McD means they are either pumping him or seeing what he can do up there in a different position. With Oilers using Khaira and Strome at Center you know they are kicking tires on what they got for 3C options should the team move Nuge. This is what the team is looking at currently. These games are being watched intently. Good for Nuge to rise to the short term challenge but where is this level of effort from him most of the time?

30 goals for Nuge with or without McD, sure. tbh I often don't even make people honor the bets. I win usually, just so you know Its just fun. You're definitely the type of poster that will at least acknowledge it later one way or the other.

cheers, and thanks for the discussion

Yes I bet COL fans were saying the same thing about MacKinnon last year.
No matter how long an essay you write the fact remains the same, Oilers should not trade RNH 1 for 1 until Draisaitl can carry a line of his own.
If its a bigger package that involves multiple top 9 players coming our way then sure.

Comparing him to Strome shows what you think of him. He is closer to Draisaitl than a scrub like Strome. I would actually take Khaira on the team over Strome 10\10 times.

 

[OilerTyler]

When was the last time the Oilers traded FOR a Nuge/Eberle/Hall level talent?

If we could put together a couple trades like the ones we’ve been on the other end of we’d probably be a top team.

For now I’d settle for us not trading away our few talented players for underwhelming returns. Can we just keep Nuge please?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes I bet COL fans were saying the same thing about MacKinnon last year.
No matter how long an essay you write the fact remains the same, Oilers should not trade RNH 1 for 1 until Draisaitl can carry a line of his own.
If its a bigger package that involves multiple top 9 players coming our way then sure.

Comparing him to Strome shows what you think of him. He is closer to Draisaitl than a scrub like Strome. I would actually take Khaira on the team over Strome 10\10 times.

I stated, if you read it thoroughly, that I was invoking the CHIA perspective and specifically stating this is how Chia would see it. Sorry if that wasn't more clear.

Nuge is obviously more talented than Strome. Has had more career consistency, but if we drop Nuge to 3rd line there isn't as much difference as just using Strome there. That part is something I feel.

Really to stay on this club Nuge HAS to pass the Connor audition with flying colors and I think he knows it. His contract isn't attractive here in a 3rd line capacity.