Now that Washington won a Stanley Cup how do you view them trading Filip Forsberg?

[The Winter Soldier]

Not quite the same as when Calgary traded Brett Hull and won the cup. But it lessens the pain if you are a Caps fan.

 

[TootooTrain]

Was bad then..is bad now.
All that bad trade stuff aside, good on them for winning the cup.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Not sure if anyone has said this but it reminds me of when Boston traded Joe THornton, brutal trade but they won a cup and the Sharks didn't.

SOmetimes these things happen and make there bad trades look like not AS BIG of deals.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Did the Lindros trade ripple out into Washington? I have a feeling that's where this cup win really started.

 

[The Burdened]

Funny thing is I have seen some Bruins fans mention if they never traded Thornton they wouldn't have had the cap space to originally sign Chara as a UFA and maybe Bergeron doesn't become the player he is today, which means maybe they don't win in 2011.

tbh I would imagine the implication would not have been on signing Chara.

That being said, Chara was not the only big ticket UFA they signed on July 1, 2006. Thornton's existence would have prevented them from signing Thornton's replacement: Marc Savard.

Savard was done by the time the Bruins won the Cup.

 

[LeafsNation75]

nah tbh I would imagine the implication would not have been on signing Chara.

That being said, Chara was not the only big ticket UFA they signed that year. Thornton's existence would have prevented them from signing Thornton's replacement: Marc Savard.

The one thing you forgot to mention is that Savard got another concussion in January 2011, so he wasn't apart of the Bruins Stanley Cup win in 2011.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I don't think anyone is questioning Forsberg's skill set, that is all accurate, however, it also describes Semin from that time frame to a T. He was one of the Caps better defensive forwards back then, had loads of speed, and arguably one of the best releases in the league.

Ok, that part I really cannot argue with. I just assumed Semin wasn't that good defensively, but I'm certainly open for that my assessment of him was wrong. I should've picked another example. I don't have that much knowledge of how Semin was a total player. Part of it has to do with his failure - for whatever reason - in Carolina.

The main point though is that it's wrong to assess Forsberg as a one-dimensional player and that Oshie somehow is a better player than him. I disagree with that assessment.

 

[The Burdened]

The one thing you forgot to mention is that Savard got another concussion in January 2011, so he wasn't apart of the Bruins Stanley Cup win in 2011.

true. They won that cup without Thornton's replacement> Not hard to imagine that they could have won another cup or 2 if they had another C of Thornton's caliber. Not only after 2011, but they could've competed for one before 2011 tbh.

Thornton & Bergeron as a 1+2 punch would've been one of the best tandems in that era.

 

[Frank Drebin]

They cut the cancer from the team, obvs.

 

[Phil McKraken]

With Forsberg on the team, this would probably be their second cup since 2013.

 

[HTFN]

Ok. Here's a scout report on Filip Forsberg from thehockeynews: "Has plenty of offensive acumen, a good release and quick shot. Also displays plenty of two-way ability, speed, sound defensive instincts and the ability to make a major impact on both special teams."

Pair that with the eye test. You're out for lunch. He's very good at creating turnovers all over the ice and that's part of a defensive ability. I don't know how many times I've seen Nashville score a goal because of sound, defensive play from Forsberg to force a counterattack.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Forsberg, I'm saying you're wrong about Semin, and did exactly to him what the guy you quoted did to Forsberg.

Prime Semin was a pocket picking, unassisted goal scoring wizard who was obviously a go to for a 1st unit PP, but also an impressive PK2 option. I'll likely never find the stat to post it but I remember a season in which he created more SHGs than his team had allowed PPGs when he was on the ice, in fairly significant TOI/G. Ultimately the Capitals had other bodies to throw at that problem and decided that if you have to put somebody's hands and ankles out there on the firing line, it may not be wise to put your scoring talent out there in the front, but he was plenty capable.

The fact that he was more than just a slick set of hands was one of the reasons he was capable of turning on the "God mode" and carrying 2nd lines full of scraps and relics. The rare few times we saw Backstrom and Semin work without Ovechkin they were spectacular, and it's possible that if Ovechkin is just another good hockey player instead of one of the most prolific goal scorers of all time, he probably doesn't get/need a line and gameplan developed around him, and that pairing could have really been something full-time. But... he is, so they did, and as a result, the tasks expected of 1RW weren't exactly a good use of Semin's skills:

get the puck to Backstrom or Ovechkin
stand by the net and try not to let an Ovechkin headhunter cave your face in like a mine shaft
chase that little near-death experience into the corner
squeak the puck to Backstrom before you get mushed
fight your way back to the net for another hit of that sweet, sweet terror
call your lawyer between periods and make sure your affairs are in order
probably at some point start to wonder if that lunatic is even shooting with his eyes open
maybe you swing at a puck in self-defense at some point and it goes in the net or whatever.

 

[Nickmo82]

Still a f***ing awful trade.

Cup doesn't change that in the slightest.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The only thing that changed is that Washington fans won't ever have to be in a position of looking back wondering if Forsberg would have helped them take that last step. They did it without him, which doesn't change how bad the trade was, but still lessens the ramifications of it.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I'm not saying you're wrong about Forsberg, I'm saying you're wrong about Semin, and did exactly to him what the guy you quoted did to Forsberg.

Prime Semin was a pocket picking, unassisted goal scoring wizard who was obviously a go to for a 1st unit PP, but also an impressive PK2 option. I'll likely never find the stat to post it but I remember a season in which he created more SHGs than his team had allowed PPGs when he was on the ice, in fairly significant TOI/G. Ultimately the Capitals had other bodies to throw at that problem and decided that if you have to put somebody's hands and ankles out there on the firing line, it may not be wise to put your scoring talent out there in the front, but he was plenty capable.

The fact that he was more than just a slick set of hands was one of the reasons he was capable of turning on the "God mode" and carrying 2nd lines full of scraps and relics. The rare few times we saw Backstrom and Semin work without Ovechkin they were spectacular, and it's possible that if Ovechkin is just another good hockey player instead of one of the most prolific goal scorers of all time, he probably doesn't get/need a line and gameplan developed around him, and that pairing could have really been something full-time. But... he is, so they did, and as a result, the tasks expected of 1RW weren't exactly a good use of Semin's skills:

get the puck to Backstrom or Ovechkin
stand by the net and try not to let an Ovechkin headhunter cave your face in like a mine shaft
chase that little near-death experience into the corner
squeak the puck to Backstrom before you get mushed
fight your way back to the net for another hit of that sweet, sweet terror
call your lawyer between periods and make sure your affairs are in order
probably at some point start to wonder if that lunatic is even shooting with his eyes open

Yeah, sure, I kind of want to point blame towards the poster who claimed Forsberg is one-dimensional and that I misunderstood your original message, but I guess that's kind of cheap? As I said to the other poster, I'm totally open for that I did the same mistake as the poster I answered to. I just threw his name in there according to how I had seen him in the numerous series I watched NYR-WSH play in the playoffs.

I don't argue (anymore) that Semin was one-dimensional, it was a bad example. And as I said, I might also have been influenced by his time in Carolina. I'm sure both of you have more knowledge of Semin than I have. I should've picked a better example.

 

[therealkoho]

gt tldr

 

[HTFN]

Yeah, sure, I kind of want to point blame towards the poster who claimed Forsberg is one-dimensional and that I misunderstood your original message, but I guess that's kind of cheap? As I said to the other poster, I'm totally open for that I did the same mistake as the poster I answered to. I just threw his name in there according to how I had seen him in the numerous series I watched NYR-WSH play in the playoffs.

I don't argue Semin wasn't one-dimensional either, it was a bad example. And as I said, I might also have been influenced by his time in Carolina.

yeah, I thought I had already posted this but it was just in a background tab, so I missed the edit.

can't speak for that guy, can say I wouldn't have said it in his shoes though

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Haha. Love this thread.

 

[Red Dread]

**** George McPhee

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

If Forsberg doesn't get traded, the Caps don't go out and get Oshie.

If the Caps don't get multi-tool, gritty, 2-way Stanley Cup hero TJ Oshie, the Caps are stuck with a one-dimensional shooter like Forsberg (a type of player they already have a lot of)....and the Caps don't win the Cup.

Yeah, he truly sucked vs you guys this year, right?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Uh, it still f***in sucks.

 

[3074326]

What does that trade have to do with this Cup?

 

[DKH]

Brutal deal

Kuznetsov & Forsberg

Ovechkin & Backstrom

Yowza

 

[Hivemind]

Did the Lindros trade ripple out into Washington? I have a feeling that's where this cup win really started.

Not sure about Lindros, but the Forsberg trade is a ripple effect of the Scott Stevens offer sheet. One of the five first round picks Washington got for Stevens eventually became Brendan Witt, who was later traded for the first round pick that became Semyon Varlamov, who was traded for the first round pick that became Filip Forsberg.


So... obviously letting Scott Stevens go was a good move for Washington that led to the Cup

 

[Hivemind]

I think it is a little fun to play the "what if" game and consider the altnerate reality if that trade never happens. Obviously it's a bad trade, but there's some fun in speculating the ripple impacts.

If the Capitals never trade Forsberg for Erat and Latta, do they miss the playoffs in 2014? Do Oates and/or McPhee get fired when they do? Does Oates try and force Forsberg to play center like he did with Erat? Does the team make the moves for TJ Oshie and/or Justin Williams? Do they have the cap space for Orlov and Kuznetsov if they have Forsberg's contract on the books as well? It's a whole different reality if that trade never happens.

Still a bad trade.

 

[Sam Spade]

In hindsight it was a good trade.

I view it the same way I always have as an indictment of George McPhee abilities. How this man got employment after that trade is unbelievable to me.

Every trade he makes is horrible, which is why I know McCrimmon, Craven, along with the scouts put that Vegas team together. Just as I know McPhee made the Tatar trade all by himself. Good luck Vegas, good luck.