Norway or Denmark?

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by cheerupmurray, May 7, 2011.

  1. cheerupmurray

    cheerupmurray Registered User

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    This is two hockey-nations on the rise. Which country do you think have the highest potential to take the next step and compete for real with the big countries in a best-on-best tournament?

    Norway got more rinks and more juniorplayers, they also have better depth than Denmark, which is shown in this WC where both countries are without some of their top-players. Norways second tier guys tend to play in SEL, Denmarks in SEL-2 or in the home league.

    On the other hand Denmark had six players that played in NHL this year plus the very promising prospect Nicklas D. Jensen. Norway have two NHL-players at the moment in Holös and Zuccarello that both spent a lot of time in AHL too.

    Both countries seems to be producing interesting prospects on a much more regular basis than what they used to, and if they keep it up it will add up to pretty interesting teams in a couple of years.
     
  2. slovakiasnextone

    slovakiasnextone Registered User

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    Denmark gets the edge for the high level players while Norway gets the edge for depth...but I´d say they are and will be more or less even....
     
  3. Viking12

    Viking12 Registered User

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    Well Denmark need fewer hockey rinks to cover the country due to been smaller in size.

    I think Norway won`t develop without more rinks, and more money. And as far as i know there are no plans to build rinks so i think Norways progress is temporary and not a sign of things to come.
     
  4. Ilyeu

    Ilyeu Registered User

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    On the rise... but to fall out again?

    Don't get me wrong, I hope Swiztzerland, Norway, Denmark get good real fast, so they can replace the fall of Slovakian and Czech hockey. Then I hope they maintain it and , the two other nations get better too. More competition makes a better sport.

    Also more hosers.. :D

    To answer your question, from what I've read Denmark has better talent and a burgeoning system that's been in the works. Norway seems to be just a team that has evolved on the national level, but that can prove inconsistent, because eventually the players retire.
     
  5. babyshamble

    babyshamble Registered User

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    I think Norways development system is better than the Danish system. Denmark`s top players are better, but almost every one of them are developed outside of Denmark. Most of the Norwegian players are developed in Norwegian hockey-academies. Norway also has moore players in the top-european leagues.

    We are also very even when it comes to junior national teams. This year Norway had both their junior teams (u-18, u-20) in the top-tier, Denmark had both of their teams in div-1. Next year it will be the opposite and thats how its been like for many years now.

    I think it is preety even, but I would give Norway the edge because of depth and infrastructure. Norway will also get their Bødker, Eller, Regin in time.
     
  6. cheerupmurray

    cheerupmurray Registered User

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    You never know, but I think it has been a steady increase in quality players coming out of theese countries. Both of the teams would have a pretty young roster in a best-on-best tournament. I would say they are both slowly on the rise.
     
  7. Wolfy*

    Wolfy* Guest

    I'm afraid you're wrong. The Norwegian league is very much alive with lots of young players and talent. Stavanger Oilers have a new NHL-style rink under construction with almost 10,000 seats. Other clubs are planning new rinks too. It's looking good there, and the success of the national team will only make it even better.
     
  8. Analyzer*

    Analyzer* Guest

    I know Boedker and Eller did. Eller left home for Sweden at 15. Not sure about the other Danish players.
     
  9. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    I think you're pretty much in fantasy land if you think either country will challenge the big nations any time soon.
     
  10. danishdynamite

    danishdynamite Registered User

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    It seems like you're not in the real world, as both Norway and Denmark not only challenge the big nations, but also beat them.

    Last year Denmark beat Finland, Slovakia and USA and this year Norway beat Sweden and Switzerland.
    Denmark lost 3-4 to Russia and Norway 2-3 to Canada.

    If that's not "challenging" then I don't know what it is.

    I cheer for Norway when they play, but I think most Danes are looking forward to the day, when Denmark has all the NHL-players on the team and give Norway a good beating :)
     
  11. Wolfy*

    Wolfy* Guest

    :laugh:

    Is your tv broken?
     
  12. cheerupmurray

    cheerupmurray Registered User

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    Jannick Hansen went from Denmark to NA. Frans Nielsen, Peter Regin and Philip Larsen all played junior and senior hockey in Sweden. Both Zuccarello and Holös passed through Sweden but played junior hockey in Norway.

    "I think you're pretty much in fantasy land if you think either country will challenge the big nations any time soon."

    I saw Norway beating Sweden with my own eyes in this WC, sadly it wasn't fantasy land and then Norway was missing at least their two best players in Zuccarello and Thoresen. I think we could see upsets in the future even in a best-on-best tournament from theese two countries if they continue to boost their rosters with quality players. They will never be favourites against a top-7 country (unless Slovakia completely folds) but they could be closing in a bit if they continue to develop players at their current rate.
     
  13. Mikkel

    Mikkel Registered User

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    A lot of Denmark's top players have gone abroad at a relatively young age, but I'm not quite sure if you can say that they are all 'developed outside Denmark'. Nicklas Jensen, to use an example, went to the CHL for his draft year - does that count? If so, then very few top prospects will ever develop in Denmark, as they'll simply outgrow the league at too young an age. (FWIW, Jannik Hansen and Peter Regin were both drafted out of Denmark).

    As for Norway vs. Denmark, Norway really seems to have Denmark's number. Both at junior and senior level, actually. So until Denmark actually beats Norway in a game that matters, you'd have to go with Norway. That said, Denmark would definitely have a chance in a best-on-best game - sadly, we dont really get to see that.

    Finally, it should be noted that Denmark's key players are all still young. Frans Nielsen at 27 is the oldest NHL-player - Bødker, Eller, and Larsen are still 21. Nicklas Jensen is 18. Even all the depth players are relatively young (this year's team is basically a rehash of the 2006-2007 U-20 team), so even with the current material, Denmark should be able to continually improve over the next 10 years.
     
  14. Viking12

    Viking12 Registered User

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    Well challenging the big nation in this tournament when they lack a lot of the top player isn`T exactly the same as doing it when they got a topped roster.

    Im happy about norways results this year but its a tiny sport here only played in a limited area of the country and i doubt that will change anytime soon.
     
  15. babyshamble

    babyshamble Registered User

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    I would think most hockey fans in Norway also support Denmark when they play unless its against us. I know I do, I also hope Norway and Denmark will grow together and challenge the big nations on a consistant basis.

    I also think that Norway and Denmark are a part of the group that is closing in on the big teams. But they will probably never really catch up, at least not before another 25-30 years. But I would not be surprised to see Norway and Denmark being on the same level as Slovakia within the next 5-10 years. Czech Rep also looks to be weaker by the year in the junior-championships.

    USA, Canada, Russia, Sweden and Finland however will probably always be the top-5. I would not be surprised to se moore upsets in the next years, especially if Denmark gets their top-players for the WC.
     
  16. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Well, at least you acknowledge this isn't a best-vs-best tournament. I saw Denmark against Germany today and a tired Germany already qualified for the QF looked like the better team.

    And even though Germany beat Russia and Slovakia and took Finland to the penalty shootout in this tournament, I'd never say they are close to that level in play.
     
  17. talenttracer

    talenttracer Registered User

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    Regin came from senior hockey i DK, directly in to sel.
    The same did Julian Jacobsen
    Steffan lassen had one year in al-svenskan and then went to the sel.

    The Danish leauge has been cutting down on foring player, which leves space for the young Danish players, therfore my bet is that you will se more Danes entering sel directly out of the danish leauge. The next will be Philip Hersby.

    As for Nor vs DK:
    Full lineup, Dk wins esaly
    Normal WC linup (few NHL'er) Close, Norway whit an ege
     
  18. talenttracer

    talenttracer Registered User

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    Heja Norge. Great effort this year. Hilsen en Lavlandsabe:)
     
  19. danishdynamite

    danishdynamite Registered User

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    Ohh.. My bad.. I didn't realize that hockey was about having the puck most..
     
  20. Jevo

    Jevo Registered User

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    Icehockey is the currently the fastest growing sport in Denmark in terms of number of players. Though it is still a very meagre number with currently ~4000 active players.

    The players that move abroad when they are young is either because they are too good for junior hockey in Denmark, but not good enough, or seen as too young to play in the Danish league, that would be Eller, Larsen and Bødker. Or players that can't learn anymore in the Danish league, so they have to move abroad to keep developing, that would be Frans Nielsen and Nicklas Jensen who were both amongst the topscorers in the league.
    I wouldn't say they weren't developed in Denmark. They just grew too big for Denmark.
     
  21. Peter K

    Peter K Registered User

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    Have to agree on this one.
    If Norway and Denmark is to ever come to the level of the Swiss or Slovakians, it will happen in no less than 10 years time. And the 'if' is still more than highly doubtful.
    One should not judge the level of a country's hockey infrastructure just by one single WC competition. It's madness.
    Of course, it provides a room for discussion and hope, especially for the smaller nations.
     
  22. Peter K

    Peter K Registered User

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    :shakehead:
    Listen, Latvia got to the EC finals in football in 2004.
    And, contrary to what was the popular belief at the time, literary nothing happened.
    Except few cases, I honestly cannot name a country that has developed significantly in any of the top team sports such as hockey during the last decade. It just doesn't happen.
     
  23. talenttracer

    talenttracer Registered User

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    Maybe its because you are young and havent been paynig attetion.

    Football EC 1992 Denmark
    Fotball EC 2006 Grece

    The gab in football has been closing for years.
    Now the gab in hockey is closing

    I am old enoug to remember when Dk was playing in the C poll, last year we came in as 8'th in WC, if thats not develobment, what is. Ok the next stepwill be tougher though.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2011
  24. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Greece in 2004 was a fluke and Greece hasn't done anything notable since. If Greece even qualify for 2012 it will only be because they are in a really weak qualifying group. Greek club football is still stuck in mediocrity as well. The national team has nothing on Spain, Germany, Holland etc. and the club teams routinely exit European competitions at the early stages.

    It's if anything a great example of how a single tournament doesn't really say much about "being on the rise".

    But back to hockey, the key issue is that the WCs don't say much about actual strength due to so many of the best players missing especially on the top nations and even the ones there are on the tail end of the most challenging hockey season there is. They also tend to have extremely little in the way of team cohesion, being more or less randomly assembled squads of "the best willing/able to play". All that favors an organized underdog who focuses strongly on this tournament and makes the results more than dubious.
     
  25. canuck2010

    canuck2010 Registered User

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    It's great to see the improvement that Norway and Denmark are making. Growth and competition in the world's greatest game makes it all the more fantastic.

    :yo:
     

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