North-Eastern division future stars ??

[albathegreat*]

LOL Whats the big deal with Pogge? He benefited by playing in the best team in his league and on top of that, the guy's gear is bigger than what Patrick Roy wore.

Calgary benifited from Pogge, the team wouldnt have been as successful as it was without Pogge.. The team couldnt score.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Price >>> Rask

Rask =>Price.

I hope one day you'll stop being the most biased CH poster on this forum. Starting to be annoying.

 

[wholeshow*]

Rask =>Price.

I hope one day you'll stop being the most biased CH poster on this forum. Starting to be annoying.

there's a reason why price was drafted ahead of rask, and why the habs prospect depth is miles ahead of toronto's.

 

[wedge]

there's a reason why price was drafted ahead of rask, and why the habs prospect depth is miles ahead of toronto's.

Alexandre Daigle was once drafted ahead of Chris Pronger and Paul Kariya... that doesn't mean anything

I would go with Rask before Price, and I'm a hab fan.

yes the habs prospect depth is ahead of Toronto's, but that doesn't mean that Price is better than Rask. And add the fact that Toronto TRADED Rask for Raycroft. So your argument is pure non-sense.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

there's a reason why price was drafted ahead of rask, and why the habs prospect depth is miles ahead of toronto's.

Great reasoning there, because we all know that draft position means everything.

 

[syc]

there's a reason why price was drafted ahead of rask, and why the habs prospect depth is miles ahead of toronto's.

Well It's tough to argue with logic like that. Almost as logical as the original poster. Anyways 99% of hockey fans that live outside of Quebec would choose Rask over Price at this point but if you choose not to remove the glasses then so be it.

 

[Sens Rule]

Lets throw our rookie goaltender under the bus for 1 bad game! Patrick Roy never did the statue of Liberty, Martin Brodeur never put a dump-in into his own net, and no goalie has ever had a bad game, except for 1, Ray Emery. RE-FREAKING-DICULOUS.

Damn you and your rational thinking. I say we send Emery to the ECHL as a back-up.

 

[TVanek26*]

That's because Toivenan is four years younger then Miller, while Emery could not have proved that he was better then Miller in the playoffs at the same age, because at Emery's age, Miller was only given 3 games (all losses) in the NHL. Miller is basically in his prime and he played well, but hardly great behind a good defence that took away most of the good chances. Emery still has a lot of work to do o positioning and rebound control before he reaches his prime. He has the potential to be a better goalie in two years then Miller.

So you better admit that Buffalo has a better defense then Ottawa then right?And with Chara gone, our defense must be even more better.Give me a break, Ray Emery will be a borderline starter his whole career, Ryan Miller has been a heralded elite goaltending prospect his whole career.He does not have potential to be better then Miller, because one Emery is not as talented as Miller and two, he's a headcase.

(Goalies in their prime at 25? )

 

[Boston]

All I know is that this division is sure going to be interesting for the next 10 years..with every team having good to great goaltending. It is hard to judge who will be the best of Rask, Price and Pogge. As of now I think it is pretty close and we will need another few years to figure out who is better.

 

[Phenomenon]

That's because Toivenan is four years younger then Miller, while Emery could not have proved that he was better then Miller in the playoffs at the same age, because at Emery's age, Miller was only given 3 games (all losses) in the NHL. Miller is basically in his prime and he played well, but hardly great behind a good defence that took away most of the good chances. Emery still has a lot of work to do o positioning and rebound control before he reaches his prime. He has the potential to be a better goalie in two years then Miller.

If you rank them by the potential and skills they had when they had their 19th birthday, Rask should be no 1 in the list. However, no-one can predict what happens when these prospects move to NHL. Toivonen has surprised everyone with his early readiness to step in, but it is not certain that Rask, Price and Pogge will do the same as fast or ever. It is also possible that Rask gets stuck behind Toivonen and Pogge behind Raycroft and both might never get a real chance to show their real skills as a starter. Sometimes it is a long way to the top as once-almost-considered-a-lost-case Kipper's example has shown.

 

[Don Draper]

So you better admit that Buffalo has a better defense then Ottawa then right?And with Chara gone, our defense must be even more better.Give me a break, Ray Emery will be a borderline starter his whole career, Ryan Miller has been a heralded elite goaltending prospect his whole career.He does not have potential to be better then Miller, because one Emery is not as talented as Miller and two, he's a headcase.

(Goalies in their prime at 25? )

I think its safe to say that Buffalo played a much more defensive style than Ottawa did, where as Ottawa relied heavily on the talent on defense to make up for their offensive style. Buffalo played better team defense, so yes, Buffalo showed better to have a better defense.

I fail to see how you can pigeon hole Emery as a backup starter, while Miller is going to be a star because he was a highly regarded prospect. Emery was a highly regarded prospect, and has proven more at a younger age. I think Miller should be better, but lets wait until Emery is Millers age before striking him down as a backup goalie. There is a reason Miller stayed in the minors as long as he did, 1 being depth of goaltenders and 2 being inconsistant when given the chance to play in the NHL.

Lets not set Miller as the standard by which Emery is judged either. If we continue to use Miller as the comparative because they played against each other in the playoffs, shouldnt we also say Cam Ward is better than both as well? Does that make sense? Most Buffalo fans would shoot that down, but it makes as much sense as judging Emery to Miller.

 

[Morbo]

LOL Whats the big deal with Pogge? He benefited by playing in the best team in his league and on top of that, the guy's gear is bigger than what Patrick Roy wore.

You knew this was coming. Only a matter of time.

 

[KaptainKourage*]

You knew this was coming. Only a matter of time.

But he's right. Guy have talent, but overhyped.




Do you people know that Price have already NHL-kind of pad ?? That 2 inch less on each pad ? That 4 inches less, and that a very BIG difference... that may do the difference of who will accustomed to NHL and who wouldnt between Price & Pogge.

 

[Morbo]

But he's right. Guy have talent, but overhyped.

Do you people know that Price have already NHL-kind of pad ?? That 2 inch less on each pad ? That 4 inches less, and that a very BIG difference... that may do the difference of who will accustomed to NHL and who wouldnt between Price & Pogge.

You're still sore that Price didn't make the WJC, aren't you?

We'll see what happens but so far Price looks like the overhyped one of the two...plus he has to live up to a 5th overall selection.

 

[Charge_Seven]

there's a reason why price was drafted ahead of rask, and why the habs prospect depth is miles ahead of toronto's.

A bad pick doesn't make a player better.

 

[Buffalo87]

Emery was a highly regarded prospect, and has proven more at a younger age.

Can't say I agree with this, I assume you're just basing this on the fact that Emery has played more games in the NHL than Miller had at the same age. Lets compare Miller's numbers in 15 games in the NHL at the same age to Emery's:

Miller 15 GP 2.64 GAA .902 SV%
Emery 39 GP 2.82 GAA .902 SV%

Beyond that, Miller had completely dominated the NCAA (winning the Hobey Baker award), went on to have great success in the AHL (Emery did as well) but was only held back from being in the NHL because Mika Noronen (who was a pretty big prospect himself back in the day) and Biron were ahead of him, had Emery been put in the same situation I can almost guarantee he wouldn't have been in the NHL this year.

 

[Don Draper]

Can't say I agree with this, I assume you're just basing this on the fact that Emery has played more games in the NHL than Miller had at the same age. Lets compare Miller's numbers in 15 games in the NHL at the same age to Emery's:

Miller 15 GP 2.64 GAA .902 SV%
Emery 39 GP 2.82 GAA .902 SV%

Beyond that, Miller had completely dominated the NCAA (winning the Hobey Baker award), went on to have great success in the AHL (Emery did as well) but was only held back from being in the NHL because Mika Noronen (who was a pretty big prospect himself back in the day) and Biron were ahead of him, had Emery been put in the same situation I can almost guarantee he wouldn't have been in the NHL this year.

funny how you didnt add in the 3 games he played as a 23 year old when he got blasted. Whether or not Emery would have been in the NHL at the same age means little. The point is, he did play well over a much larger sample of games, and did not have the luxury of dressing against the weaker opponents. He started 33 of 35 games to finish the season, and had a very banged up defense and forwards in front of him for most of that. I would say he faired very well considering the situation he was in.

 

[Buffalo87]

funny how you didnt add in the 3 games he played as a 23 year old when he got blasted.

Either way, Miller played just as well on a much weaker team. Regardless of the opponents he played against, that team was the 5th worst team in the entire NHL.

Whether or not Emery would have been in the NHL at the same age means little.

People are saying that Emery has proven than Miller at the same age, the only way you can justify that is just the fact that Emery played in the NHL for more games at an earlier age than Miller. I'm just saying that's not Millers fault so it can't be used against him.

The point is, he did play well over a much larger sample of games, and did not have the luxury of dressing against the weaker opponents. He started 33 of 35 games to finish the season, and had a very banged up defense and forwards in front of him for most of that. I would say he faired very well considering the situation he was in.

You act like he was playing for one of the worst teams in the NHL, banged up or not he was on the 2nd best team in the entire NHL.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Do you people know that Price have already NHL-kind of pad ?? That 2 inch less on each pad ? That 4 inches less, and that a very BIG difference... that may do the difference of who will accustomed to NHL and who wouldnt between Price & Pogge.

I think that I already proved with AH that Price using smaller pads in the WHL was a crock.

 

[Don Draper]

Either way, Miller played just as well on a much weaker team. Regardless of the opponents he played against, that team was the 5th worst team in the entire NHL.

Half the teams he played against were in the bottom 10 in the league, that has to be a factor in talking about ability, much like you using Emery's team against him.


People are saying that Emery has proven than Miller at the same age, the only way you can justify that is just the fact that Emery played in the NHL for more games at an earlier age than Miller. I'm just saying that's not Millers fault so it can't be used against him.


But it must be taken into consideration. Whether his fault or not, Emery has proven more at this age. Those things happen for all prospects. Had Miller played on Ottawa at that age and not taken them to the cup, people would be questioning him as a prospect as well, which is not fair. Another example would be like Kovalchuk and Spezza being in different situations, yet Kovalchuk having proved more at the same age, he was thought of more highly. Your play over a prolonged stretch is the barometer of ability, which Emery has over Miller in this situation.


You act like he was playing for one of the worst teams in the NHL, banged up or not he was on the 2nd best team in the entire NHL.

When the team in front of him was healthy, his numbers sky rocketed, when injured, they fell. No different then what happened with Miller this past season. If you are going say injuries to the team doesnt effect a goalies performance, than judging a goalie strictly by the teams talent cannot occur either. Its obviously not fair to say that of either goalie since both played for great teams that had a large amount of injuries, so lets just leave it at the fact that Emery was given an opportunity earlier on, and showed he belonged.

The only reason why this whole discussion came up is because you said Emery showed he would be no more than a career backup. I am saying thats completely unfair granted the situation he was in. He played as well as a good young prospect should be counted on to play. I find it hard to believe that anyone can relegate him to career backup, when he was put into a situation he never should have been in.

 

[NewHabsEra*]

i think the ranking of the best young talent in the northeast is

1. ottawa (heatley, spezza, meszaros, vermette, eaves)
2. boston (kessel, boyes, bergeron, jurcina, toivonen)
3. buffalo (vanek, roy, miller, stafford, pominville)
4. montreal (price, higgins, kostitsyn, latendresse, komisarek)
5. toronto (steen, stajan, suglobov, pogge, colaiacovo)

You forgot Perezhogin and any teams outside Toronto have a honest chance to rank first.. Guys like Pominville, Stafford arent any better than our 6 better kids, what they will prove in the not so far future.. You will have to wait a couple of years to have a better idea, Habs' s kids are obviously badly underrated.

Personally I would rank Habs second to be fair even if Im not a big Spezza fan...

 

[TVanek26*]

You forgot Perezhogin and any teams outside Toronto have a honest chance to rank first.. Guys like Pominville, Stafford arent any better than our 6 better kids, what they will prove in the not so far future.. You will have to wait a couple of years to have a better idea, Habs' s kids are obviously badly underrated.

Personally I would rank Habs second to be fair even if Im not a big Spezza fan...

Pominville already proved a lot more then any prospect from Montreal did so far...score 18 goals in 57 games, play on the #2 ranked PK regularly,score a hat trick in a postseason game and score the 2nd round series clinching goal SH in OT.

 

[Buffalo87]

What are you talking about? I never called him a career backup, all I said was that while Emery might have the potential to be better than Miller at some point, I don't see it happening.

 

[NyQuil]

As far as I'm concerned, none of the goalies in the Northeast are proven #1s.

That includes Miller, Huet, Emery, Gerber, Raycroft, Aebischer, Biron, Toivonen and Thomas, etc.

People stating that one is indisputably better than another at this point in time are doing so based on a very small sample size of games.

The fact of the matter is, there has been an immense generational shift with respect to goaltenders and the dust hasn't settled yet.

 

[Pangu]

Hey I am not saying that Emery is better than anyone, but instead just reminding people that there is an age differance and it is significant in this thing. You can't just compare him to Miller at face value because he is two years younger.

I hate ranking goalies because it is very difficult to judge how much of a goalie's performance is due to the defance and the opposing team. But I do want to say that I thought that Miller had the easier time in the Sens-Sabs series because of some of the completley incompetant plays by our Dmen. It is hard to judge because the Sens outshot the Sabs, but I just think that the difficulty of the shots is more important than the number.