Nonis is "appalled" by Finns

[TK79]

A guy who lets Bertuzzi play on his team doesn't have the right to be appalled by anything

 

[Mr. Penguin]

A guy who lets Bertuzzi play on his team doesn't have the right to be appalled by anything

What a silly crap I see from Finnish posters here... for example that quoted bit over there.


I still can't believe some dolts blame Flames because of Kipprusoff isn't playing. Newsflash for you: It's not Flame's fault. It's not anyone's fault Kipper is not playing, Kipper just doesn't want to play for his country, it's that simple. So stop the crap about Flames/Sutter already!

But what coms to Nonis, he can shut up. Team Finland has one of the most important games in its history ahead so they shouldn't give a rat's *** about Vancouver Canucks right now... (BTW, Canucks is one of my favorite teams, but Olympic hockey just goes ahead of everything!)

 

[Caz]

Finland should be appreciative - the Canucks are actually paying Salo while he is playing for Finland.

This is maybe just a little bit of trivia, but as far as I know,
the players are paid by their respective federations or Olympic
committees instead of their teams during international match ups.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Huh? Let's try to keep this on topic. Where did I say Dave Nonis was gonna withdraw Sami Salo from the tournament? Answere: No where. Who knows what Nonis wanted, but he should be fully informed with what's going on with his players. This type of disrespect to the NHL is exactly what I'm talking about. Dave Nonis has no right to tell Team Finland what to do, and he has no business to tell Sami Salo what he can do, but he is open to his opinion and I believe he is fully within his right to be fully informed should one of his players be injured. If that's not the case, and Nonis wanted to butt in, then I'd agree with you, but that clearly is not the case. Let's try and talk about the topic and not me, ok?

As for whether these players are assets to the organization, tell me what an investment is. Tell me what a NHL organization's assets are. If you still disagree, then I digress.

NOW you want to stay in the topic. Before I pointed out your contradiction, you were more than eager to hijack the thread to throw some stabs about the Kipper situation. How ironic.


"he is fully within his right to be fully informed should one of his players be injured. If that's not the case, and Nonis wanted to butt in, then I'd agree with you, but that clearly is not the case."

Why is that not the case? Because Nonis shouts louder? The article clearly states Team Finland had informed Canucks about the injury. It did not enclose what information they had been able to report yet, but the main point is clear....they were informed. And they will be informed when there is more info. I bet they have informed already, since Salo is not playing tonight...so they must know now what kind of injury he has.

You are just saying (and this is not the first time) that you would trust an NHL GM's word, or even a North American journalist's word over ANY european no matter who they are. If Dave Nonis says, "there has not been enough co-operation" you take that as a fact, one that no euro ***** can deny. Even though you can read from the exact article that Canucks have been informed, you still go on and on about Nonis being upset "so team Finland must be keeping him in the dark".

Did it ever occurred to you that medical tests take time? Especially during olympics where there are thousands of athletes around? You might not get a full diagnoses in 10 minutes to please an over eager NHL GM. He was informed that Salo got injured. He has probably already been informed how badly because they have concluded that Salo will not be able to play tonight in the semifinals.

But in your opinion the impatience of one GM is 100% proof of Team Finland disrespecting the whole NHL.

Should the world stop turning when Nonis calls? And how many times him and his staff need to be informed about "Hey, Salo got injured" before it stops being disrespecting?

 

[Padawan]

No where have I contradicted myself in that.

You contradicted yourself when you clearly stated that it is infact easy for an NHL GM to meddle with the national team if they choose to. When we had this whole debate over Kipper you kept saying "there is nothing they can do if he wants to go, so he obviously does not want to go" and now you are saying they could just as easily tell all finnish players not to go. That is contradicting yourself.

Either their hand can or can't be forced, you can't have it both ways buddy.

Huh? Let's try to keep this on topic.

Ha Ha. Owned.

Anyway, back to the topic. I think matters have gone out of hand here and the blame goes to... The posters who are arguing in this thread (myself included). I think the journalist spiced up the story a bit. Journalists do that sometimes to sell the story.

Sure there has been a mishap. Nonis didn't get informed but a member of Canucks' medical staff did. Nonis didn't like that he was't directly informed so he tried to contact Team Finland staff and didn't succeed. It was most likely night in Italy at the time. He was already a little upset and is now more upset. I think he felt that Team Finland didn't respect him as a person when they didn't contacted him directly. His ego got hurt. That's what I think. I may be wrong or a might get lucky and be right. Let's wait a few days and see how this story progresses.

 

[psycho_dad*]

As for whether these players are assets to the organization, tell me what an investment is. Tell me what a NHL organization's assets are. If you still disagree, then I digress.

They are assets, not objects. Investments yes. But when you invest on something you also take the risk of your investment going sour.

Thing is...NHL and IIHF have this contract that clearly states players have the right to represent their countries in the olympics. So if, lets say Nonis said to Salo "You cant go", Salo could simply say "You cant stop it". NHL teams own some services of their players, to an extent. They do not own the individual. They own what is described in the actual contract, and in Salo's and everyone elses case you know that the contract does not include staying out of the olympics.

So tell me again, how are they on loan? It is their right to represent their countries, no matter what their GM's say. Some choose to use that right, and by no means they are "on loan" that time. A more proper example would be a kid of divorced parents. Mom has the kid for weeks and dad has the kid for weekends. It's a deal, it's a contract. Neither one is "loaning" the kid.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Ha Ha. Owned.

On what? I never said Nonis should be allowed to intervene. I just said he should be informed on what's going on. The "Huh?" was him bringing up something that wasn't relevent to the topic, and as I clearly showed, he was wrong.

 

[Phanuthier*]

...

Actually, I have a great deal of respect for Finland as a hockey country. Right now, they have some of the most innovative hockey program in the world, and will pay huge dividends in 10 years (if it isn't starting already). Besides Ruutu and the way Team Finland is handling their politics, Finland is actually my favourite hockey country outside of Canada.

Saying that, I don't think Team Finland's being managed very well. Yes, I understand that the Vancouver organization got an update on the injury. I got that, and I've said that before. What I think is the issue here is that Dave Nonis feels as though he's getting the slight, and wants to talk to someone or wants to know what's going on, and feels "disrespected" as said in the article.

I think that is an issue. Personally, I think Team Finland has an obligation to be in contact with Vancouver in this case. Sweden didn't seem to have a problem with Ohlund.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Yes, I understand that the Vancouver organization got an update on the injury. I got that, and I've said that before. What I think is the issue here is that Dave Nonis feels as though he's getting the slight, and wants to talk to someone or wants to know what's going on, and feels "disrespected" as said in the article.

I think that is an issue. Personally, I think Team Finland has an obligation to be in contact with Vancouver in this case. Sweden didn't seem to have a problem with Ohlund.

So let me get this straight....

You feel that Team finland has an obligation to be in contact with Vancouver in this case (I agree). You realize and admit that they have done exactly that, been in contact with the canucks.

But you also feel that because Nonis "feels disrespected", that means Team Finland is badly ran and to blame here?

Wait...that still confuses me...

Because Finland did what they are supposed to (contact the canucks), they are evil, because they contacted the medical personnel about an injury rather than a paper pusher (who by the way pays the medical personnel to report to him)?

I am scratching my head here. To me it looks like you are saying Finns did exactly what they were supposed to do, BUT they are a horrible disrespecting faulty organization because "Dave Nonis got upset"??

Are you the same guy who asked to keep this discussion "logical"? How do you define logic in your neck of the woods?

 

[Saklander]

A little offtopic:

Unit-Core-God-Country, this is the order starting from the less important.

I frankly don´t share the North American view of the NHL beeing the most important thing ever...

It´s the Olympics, they are only every 4 years, the best athletes. The Cup can be won every year, but the "whole world" isn´t watching. But I am aware that perhaps this oppinion, at the moment, isn´t shared by fans from NA, that want "meaningfull" hockey to start again.

 

[Pepper]

Nonis looks like an idiot whining about not getting information about Salo when the medical staff of his own NHL team has already been contacted and explained the situation.

Hey Dave, maybe you should circulate a memo ordering all personel of Vancouver Canucks to inform him about things he should be aware of?

What a moron.

 

[Epsilon]

You'd be niave if you don't think these complications will hinder the NHL's and the Vancouver Canuck's willingness to participate in the 2010 games.

TSN's said it. CBC's said it. Nothing trolling about that.

Their willingness to participate doesn't matter in the least, unless the two sides terminate this CBA before 2010 and negociate a new one. Because otherwise, the players have the right to play in the Olympics regardless of what the NHL or their NHL team wants.

 

[jaydub*]

Your confusing Salo with the Finnish Federation.

Nonis certainly doesn't pay their salaries. Nor does he own the player.

Technically, he has no rights. But Salo should want him to be informed to be a good Canuck. And Salo might have some contractual obligations even.

But the Finnish Federation isn't owned for or paid by Nonis. They have no obligation to him.

You're treating Salo like a borrowed video game. He isn't. He's just as much a Finn, even more so really, then he is a Vancouver Canuck. You could just as easily say that the Canucks borrow him from the Finnish Federation. But in reality, neither is correct. He is an adult. He should go and do what he wants. And neither entity has any rights to him beyond what he gives them by his own choice.

And overall, I just don't trust him in this regards. The GM's have made such a huge stink about players going to the Olympics and playing for their country that it doesn't shock me when we read things like, "Canucks medical trainer Mike Burnstein was contacted by the Finnish Federation informing of Salo's status" while a GM complains about not being contacted.

it is pretty clear you know very little about business. the canucks have every right to now. Salo is their employee. He has a contract with them. They have millions of dollars invested in him.

 

[Pepper]

it is pretty clear you know very little about business. the canucks have every right to now. Salo is their employee. He has a contract with them. They have millions of dollars invested in him.

Canucks DID get the information, it's their INTERNAL communication problem. You can't fault Team Finland for Canucks medical staff not informing the GM.