Nonis is "appalled" by Finns

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Phanuthier*

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Diaboli said:
What on earth are you trying to say with this? :help:
I was being sarcastic, after all the whining Finnish posters seem to do here.
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
I was being sarcastic, after all the whining Finnish posters seem to do here.

I havent seen finnish posters whining about this. Only you and some canucks fans. Finns have been trying to explain to you that

A) Canucks HAVE been informed so Nonis has no reason to complain.

B) Team Finland has other things to do today than worry about Canucks GM feeling left out.

C) He should talk to his medical staff who can give him the answer in laymen terms.
 

BCCHL inactive

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Pepper said:
VAn, for a one who likes people to think you're a referee yourself, you really should learn the rules better.

That hit was *NOT* a hit to the head, proven by the all the video angles of the hit.

I suggest you pay some extra attention.

So I exaggerated about the CTH, but that doesn't make me wrong about the rule.

The hit, however, drove Jagr's head into the boards. It was easily Boarding (what was called) or charging, and it was a borderline check from behind. Intent to injure is harsh, it definitely wasn't worth a Match Penalty. Ruutu got what he deserved..


As for Nonis, his beef isn't just that Finland didn't contact him, it's just as much, if not moreso that he couldn't contact them.
 

Phanuthier*

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psycho_dad said:
I havent seen finnish posters whining about this. Only you and some canucks fans. Finns have been trying to explain to you that

A) Canucks HAVE been informed so Nonis has no reason to complain.

B) Team Finland has other things to do today than worry about Canucks GM feeling left out.

C) He should talk to his medical staff who can give him the answer in laymen terms.
Yes, I've really done alot of whining here. Because it really matters to me what the Canucks do. :help:

It was more referred to the way the Finns have treated their players, going back to 2004, the Kiprusoff fiasco, and now this. If the Finns continue to be such a pain in the *** to work with, I can't see the NHL wanting to cooperate with them very much.
 

psycho_dad*

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Van said:
As for Nonis, his beef isn't just that Finland didn't contact him, it's just as much, if not moreso that he couldn't contact them.

That really is his problem. Finland plays in the OLYMPICS SEMIFINAL today. Because of the time difference, the guy probably called when it was night time in Italy...and anyway...they REALLY have much more important things to focus on than some GM from Vancouver.

They should keep on focusing on their upcoming game even if God tried to call them.
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
Yes, I've really done alot of whining here. Because it really matters to me what the Canucks do. :help:

No you just wanted to exploit this thread to continue the Kipper discussion and take unnecessary stabs at finnish posters using this thread and topic as an excuse. We both know that.
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
If the Finns continue to be such a pain in the *** to work with, I can't see the NHL wanting to cooperate with them very much.

You have absolutely no proof that they have been a "pain in the *** to work with". The article clearly states Canucks were informed. It's that simple. Team Finland did the right thing by informing, if this guy wants updates every 30 minutes, then he really has ego issues. Who does he think he is?

If he can't talk to his own medical staff, then its his incompetense that is the problem here. Not team Finland's co-operation. :rant:
 

Raimo Sillanpää

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Phanuthier said:
Yes, I've really done alot of whining here. Because it really matters to me what the Canucks do. :help:

It was more referred to the way the Finns have treated their players, going back to 2004, the Kiprusoff fiasco, and now this. If the Finns continue to be such a pain in the *** to work with, I can't see the NHL wanting to cooperate with them very much.

2004 What happened then?
That was the world cup and lockout. What exactly did the Finns do wrong? They didn't suspend payments to players like your prescious teams did..

Kiprusoff fiasco? It's been stated that Kipper was pressured, then he used a BS excuse. Ofcourse we have a right to be pissed. At the Flames, their staff, and whole organisation.
This? That Nonis can't get someone on the telephone when the relevant information has already been provided to his organisation? What exactly did he want to do, ask Kurri for betting tips?

Nonis is apalled? Hey, I'm apalled that I can't telephone Sutter and ask him about Kipper's vacation in Hawaii. It'd be great for my fantasy hockey team if I knew weather he's "fully healed" or not..

I can't see the Finns wanting to co-operate with Canadian NHL teams too much if they throw hissy fits like this left right and centre.
 

Phanuthier*

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psycho_dad said:
You have absolutely no proof that they have been a "pain in the *** to work with". The article clearly states Canucks were informed. It's that simple. Team Finland did the right thing by informing, if this guy wants updates every 30 minutes, then he really has ego issues. Who does he think he is?

If he can't talk to his own medical staff, then its his incompetense that is the problem here. Not team Finland's co-operation. :rant:
Vancouver Canucks Senior Vice President and General Manager Dave Nonis is "appalled at the lack of communication and respect he has received from the Finnish Ice Hockey Federation" following an injury to defenseman Sami Salo.
 

Phanuthier*

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Raimo Sillanpää said:
2004 What happened then?
That was the world cup and lockout. What exactly did the Finns do wrong? They didn't suspend payments to players like your prescious teams did..

Kiprusoff fiasco? It's been stated that Kipper was pressured, then he used a BS excuse. Ofcourse we have a right to be pissed. At the Flames, their staff, and whole organisation.
This? That Nonis can't get someone on the telephone when the relevant information has already been provided to his organisation? What exactly did he want to do, ask Kurri for betting tips?

Nonis is apalled? Hey, I'm apalled that I can't telephone Sutter and ask him about Kipper's vacation in Hawaii. It'd be great for my fantasy hockey team if I knew weather he's "fully healed" or not..

I can't see the Finns wanting to co-operate with Canadian NHL teams too much if they throw hissy fits like this left right and centre.
Ok, I don't think the NHL has a problem with that then. Finland's already signed the IIHF agreement, so I can't see players being held back in the FEL. Meanwhile, the future tournaments such as 2010 haven't been hammered out, and I'm sure these problems will weight into the support of the NHL in helping out the Olympics program. Besides injuries, IIHF cooperation and its countries (Finland) will weigh heavily in how much the NHL would like to invest in the next Olympic winter games. Its been heavily speculated 2010 will be their last year, but I doubt we'll even see that. My guess is we'll see a World Cup instead in 2010.

Seems like Finland's having quite a bit of problems with NHL organizations. Team Canada (Scott Niedermayer) didn't seem to have that problem, and the Czechs didn't seem to have communication problems with Ottawa or Sweden with Ohlund. Just Finland. Funny that.

As for the treatment of their players in the 2004 World Cup, look it up yourself. It's been heavily documented everyone, including on HF.

(Not to hi-jack the thread, but yes, it's been documented Kiprusoff was pressured. By Jari Kurri. When Kiprusoff injured his hip on Oct 8, he asked to withdraw, but Kurri kept on saying wait and seeing. It was also speculated that it was team doctors that gave Kiprusoff their diagnoses, the only coaching staff that has any education is goaltending coach David Marcoux with a MSC in Physiology.)
 

Raimo Sillanpää

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Phanuthier said:
Ok, I don't think the NHL has a problem with that then. Finland's already signed the IIHF agreement, so I can't see players being held back in the FEL. Meanwhile, the future tournaments such as 2010 haven't been hammered out, and I'm sure these problems will weight into the support of the NHL in helping out the Olympics program. Besides injuries, IIHF cooperation and its countries (Finland) will weigh heavily in how much the NHL would like to invest in the next Olympic winter games. Its been heavily speculated 2010 will be their last year, but I doubt we'll even see that. My guess is we'll see a World Cup instead in 2010.

Seems like Finland's having quite a bit of problems with NHL organizations. Team Canada (Scott Niedermayer) didn't seem to have that problem, and the Czechs didn't seem to have communication problems with Ottawa or Sweden with Ohlund. Just Finland. Funny that.

As for the treatment of their players in the 2004 World Cup, look it up yourself. It's been heavily documented everyone, including on HF.

(Not to hi-jack the thread, but yes, it's been documented Kiprusoff was pressured. By Jari Kurri. When Kiprusoff injured his hip on Oct 8, he asked to withdraw, but Kurri kept on saying wait and seeing. It was also speculated that it was team doctors that gave Kiprusoff their diagnoses, the only coaching staff that has any education is goaltending coach David Marcoux with a MSC in Physiology.)

The NHL can't make that decision without the NHLPA. The NHLPA put the Olympic participation in the new CBA. When a large number of players are european and willing to die for their countries (see a true patriot like Forsberg going over) I don't really see them agreeing to no olympics.
Why would you want to exclude yourself from a chance of capturing your childhood dream?

Hockey is global these days, its no longer Canada only world.

I won't go into the Kipper thing more, its been flamed on enough. Let's just agree to have disagreeing viewpoints on the matter.

World Cup treatment? Umm.. you're referring to Janne's crying? Maybe he should leave the NHL then too, Stirling threw him out of practice..
 

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Phanuthier said:
Vancouver Canucks Senior Vice President and General Manager Dave Nonis is "appalled at the lack of communication and respect he has received from the Finnish Ice Hockey Federation" following an injury to defenseman Sami Salo.

Yes, so you have now succesfully proved that Dave Nonis is upset. Does that mean Team Finland is to blame? They provided the info that was needed, Nonis just did not bother to ask his medical staff, or for what ever reason that was not enough for him.

Please, tell me what they should have done in your opinion? Make a "Nonis hotline" and assign one person from the team to answer the phone 24/7 and call him every 30 minutes saying "no news yet"?

Vancouver Canucks were informed. What REALLY is your problem?
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
Seems like Finland's having quite a bit of problems with NHL organizations. Team Canada (Scott Niedermayer) didn't seem to have that problem, and the Czechs didn't seem to have communication problems with Ottawa or Sweden with Ohlund. Just Finland. Funny that.

You base this on one NHL GM ranting about "not getting enough communication" when in fact his organization has been informed. WOW...how can ANYONE work with team finland. If Dave Nonis has had problems waking everyone up in the middle of the night because of this injury, that MUST mean Team Finland and NHL have serious issues together.

Nonis is not to blame at all...I mean...all he is asking is that the whole Team Finland staff should be at his disposal at any hour, while they prepare for a meaningless game far overseas. :sarcasm:
 

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psycho_dad said:
Yes, so you have now succesfully proved that Dave Nonis is upset. Does that mean Team Finland is to blame? They provided the info that was needed, Nonis just did not bother to ask his medical staff, or for what ever reason that was not enough for him.

Please, tell me what they should have done in your opinion? Make a "Nonis hotline" and assign one person from the team to answer the phone 24/7 and call him every 30 minutes saying "no news yet"?

Vancouver Canucks were informed. What REALLY is your problem?
That Finland should have said "we have informed your medical staff" if that's the case.

Sounds like it has left a bitter taste in Dave Nonis mouth, and I'm sure that will be very important come time 2010. Don't forget, the Olympics are being held in Vancouver, and besides the NHL and NHLPA, they also have to have the agreement of the IOC to work with the IIHF, and that will include Vancouver organizers including Senior VP Dave Nonis.
 

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Phanuthier said:
As for the treatment of their players in the 2004 World Cup, look it up yourself. It's been heavily documented everyone, including on HF.

No, it has not. There are rumours, and I guarantee every Finn knows more about them than you do, our tabloids and newspapers have been on the case since, former head coach wrote a book about it etc. You on the other hand are only talking about things said in HFboards, so you just successfully transformed HFboards rumours into "well documented".
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
That Finland should have said "we have informed your medical staff" if that's the case.

Sounds like it has left a bitter taste in Dave Nonis mouth, and I'm sure that will be very important come time 2010. Don't forget, the Olympics are being held in Vancouver, and besides the NHL and NHLPA, they also have to have the agreement of the IOC to work with the IIHF, and that will include Vancouver organizers including Senior VP Dave Nonis.

So you are suggesting, contrary to everything you have claimed in the Kiprusoff case, that NHL GM's actually have some leverage and might use it to keep their players home during olympics? Talk about contradicting yourself!
 

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Phanuthier said:
That Finland should have said "we have informed your medical staff" if that's the case.


Read the damn article. Nonis knew the medical staff was informed, it was right there with his rant.

So yet again, what is the problem?

Boohoo, he does not get Kurri on the phone? Wait a few days and you might, right now they have much more important things to care about than Vancouver canucks GM.
 

Phanuthier*

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psycho_dad said:
You base this on one NHL GM ranting about "not getting enough communication" when in fact his organization has been informed. WOW...how can ANYONE work with team finland. If Dave Nonis has had problems waking everyone up in the middle of the night because of this injury, that MUST mean Team Finland and NHL have serious issues together.

Nonis is not to blame at all...I mean...all he is asking is that the whole Team Finland staff should be at his disposal at any hour, while they prepare for a meaningless game far overseas. :sarcasm:
If that is how Team Finland choses to work with one of the Vancouver Canucks key assets, they are in alot of trouble. You speak of it like Dave Nonis is a small cog in the NHL, but consider the fact that Dave Nonis has connections to other GM's around the league, and will influence their decision, going all the way up to the BOG.

I know the NHLPA wanted to get the Olympics into their agreement, but I could see players souring on it as well. There has been lackluster interest from Finland (Kiprusoff, Lehtonen), Russia (long list), Canada barely showed up enough to care and the US was just ripped by Modano and you gotta wonder how many are feeling that way now (ie. M Schnider's 5 month pregnant wife had to walk from the arena to the hotel).

I've long wondered how long the NHL would participate in the Olympics. Due to the backlash to NHL team's and their investments (injuries at the tournament and after, fatigue, interrupted schedual, ect) it has been widely speculated that they won't be there after 2010, and I didn't think they'd last that long. Now that problems such as Team Finland's handling of a Vancouver Canuck investment have arised, it furthur illustrates the issue plaguing NHL participation in Olympic events.
 

Phanuthier*

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psycho_dad said:
So you are suggesting, contrary to everything you have claimed in the Kiprusoff case, that NHL GM's actually have some leverage and might use it to keep their players home during olympics?
Yes, I believe each country (including Team Finland's Ice Hockey Federation) could treat the NHL's investments carefully and respect the fact that players are on loan to these countries to participate in the games.

No where have I contradicted myself in that.
 

jepjepjoo

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Phanuthier said:
That Finland should have said "we have informed your medical staff" if that's the case.

I think this more of a case of communication problems inside the canucks.

Keep on rock & trolling Phanuthier :yo:
 

Phanuthier*

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jepjepjoo said:
I think this more of a case of communication problems inside the canucks.

Keep on rock & trolling Phanuthier :yo:
Right. That's not the issue, the issue is the fact that Dave Nonis feels a lack of respect from the Finland team, and has asked the NHL to intervene (as said in the article). We don't know what Nonis wanted, if he wanted to ask about the injury, if Salo was going to continue playing and risk furthur injury, or what.

But thanks for your input anyways.

You'd be niave if you don't think these complications will hinder the NHL's and the Vancouver Canuck's willingness to participate in the 2010 games.

TSN's said it. CBC's said it. Nothing trolling about that.
 

psycho_dad*

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Phanuthier said:
respect the fact that players are on loan to these countries to participate in the games.

No where have I contradicted myself in that.

No, the players are not "on loan". They are there because they want to be, it is their own choise and their right. They are not on loan from Canucks, and when they play for canucks they are not on loan from Finland. People are not objects, they are their own masters.

You contradicted yourself when you clearly stated that it is infact easy for an NHL GM to meddle with the national team if they choose to. When we had this whole debate over Kipper you kept saying "there is nothing they can do if he wants to go, so he obviously does not want to go" and now you are saying they could just as easily tell all finnish players not to go. That is contradicting yourself. :teach:

Either their hand can or can't be forced, you can't have it both ways buddy.
 

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psycho_dad said:
No, the players are not "on loan". They are there because they want to be, it is their own choise and their right. They are not on loan from Canucks, and when they play for canucks they are not on loan from Finland. People are not objects, they are their own masters.

You contradicted yourself when you clearly stated that it is infact easy for an NHL GM to meddle with the national team if they choose to. When we had this whole debate over Kipper you kept saying "there is nothing they can do if he wants to go, so he obviously does not want to go" and now you are saying they could just as easily tell all finnish players not to go. That is contradicting yourself. :teach:
Huh? Let's try to keep this on topic. Where did I say Dave Nonis was gonna withdraw Sami Salo from the tournament? Answere: No where. Who knows what Nonis wanted, but he should be fully informed with what's going on with his players. This type of disrespect to the NHL is exactly what I'm talking about. Dave Nonis has no right to tell Team Finland what to do, and he has no business to tell Sami Salo what he can do, but he is open to his opinion and I believe he is fully within his right to be fully informed should one of his players be injured. If that's not the case, and Nonis wanted to butt in, then I'd agree with you, but that clearly is not the case. Let's try and talk about the topic and not me, ok?

As for whether these players are assets to the organization, tell me what an investment is. Tell me what a NHL organization's assets are. If you still disagree, then I digress.
 

Pica

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I'm still blaming Canucks mail pigeon.

Theres definetly something wrong at VAN organization if information that physical trainers get doesnt reach Nonis in 2 mins. CEO of any company shouldnt have to make calls like that (their job is to whine to the press :biglaugh: )
 
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