Music: Non-blues, non-swing, and non-rock music based on rhythm

[Hippasus]

This is a bit of a vague thread topic, but I put together a list of albums or works that seemed to have no rhythm based on blues, ragtime, swing, and rock for the duration of the playing time. I tried to be a bit strict in compiling this list, but someone with better knowledge of music and-or theory may be able to correct me on some of it. Some music like black metal and punk seems to have different rhythmic foundations than
blues, ragtime, swing, and rock. I heard a similar statement from somewhere a while back, was intrigued, and eventually made the following list:

Nick Drake, Brian Eno: Discreet Music, Ambient 1: Music for Airports, Ambient 4: On Land, Apollo: Atmospheres and Soundtracks, Thursday Afternoon, The Shutov Assembly, Harold Budd: Ambient 2: The Plateaux of Mirror, The Pearl; Jon Hassell: Fourth World, Vol. 1-2; Michael Brook: Hybrid, Tangerine Dream: Phaedra, Throbbing Gristle: 20 Jazz Funk Greats, J.S. Bach: Toccata & Fugue: famous organ works, J. S. Bach: Organ Works: The Great Organ at Methuen, Cabaret Voltaire: The Living Legends…, Three Mantras, Dead Can Dance: Garden of the Arcane Delights, Within the Realm of a Dying Sun, The Serpent’s Egg, Aion, Corrosion of Conformity: Six Songs With Mike Singing, Swans: Cop / Young God, Earth: A Bureaucratic Desire for Extra-Capsular Extraction; Earth 2 - Special Low Frequency Version; Mantas (Schuldiner’s band before Death), Genocide (the band before Repulsion), Extreme Noise Terror: In It For Life, Sleep: Jerusalem, Autechre: Incunabula, Basscad (Basscadetmxs), Amber, Tri Repetae / Anvil Vapre / Garbage, Oversteps, Move of Ten, Exai, L-Event, Summoning: Stronghold, Let Mortal Heroes Sing Your Fame, Lost Tales, Ulver: Kveldsanger, Rachel’s, Labradford, Sunn o))): Grimmrobe Demos, ØØ Void, Oneohtrix Point Never, Incubus (from Georgia, U.S.A.), Necrovore, Enslaved, Ildjarn, Sort Vokter, Darkthrone, Suffocation: Despise the Sun, Beherit, Graveland, Rotting Christ: Thy Mighty Contract, Amophis: Tales From the Thousand Lakes / Black Winter Day, Incantation: Mortal Throne of Nazarene, Mournful Congregation, Skepticism, Ras Algethi, Decapitated, Origin, Decrepit Birth, Vile, Ahab.

Feel free to discuss or come up with your own examples.

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[kihei]

Try Brazil: Gilberto Gil, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Seu Jorge, Caetano Veloso, Carlinhos Brown, Daniela Mercury, Egberto Gismonti, Uakti, Vincius de Moraes, Joao Gilberto--in term of rhythm some of those musicians will be of interest for sure,.

 

[Xelebes]

Honestly, you're going to have to narrow this down because I could take you on a tour of calypso, samba, tango, tarantella, kolomeyka, tsiftiteli, polka, waltz, jigs, reels, allemandes, bhangras, enko, and so on and so forth that it might not be what you are looking for.

 

[Hippasus]

I suppose I had heavy guitar music, electronic, ambient, for lack of a better term, world music, classical, even jazz, and folk in mind. However, your list is already the sort of thing for which I was looking. Have at it, if you wish. Just a maximum of one video per post, please.

 

[izlez]

Vague topic, but seems like a good chance to post this band that I (somehow) just discovered and am obsessed with.

"The band was known for incorporating elements of hardcore punk, emo, and math rock, and they were heavily influenced by jazz, reggae, and ska."

 

[Jack Straw]

J.S. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos

 

[Hippasus]

Vague topic, but seems like a good chance to post this band that I (somehow) just discovered and am obsessed with.

"The band was known for incorporating elements of hardcore punk, emo, and math rock, and they were heavily influenced by jazz, reggae, and ska."

I'll try to refine this more: there are derivations of swing
and rock beats thoughout many genres of music. For swing, there is a U.S. sort of bounce to the beat, which is today thought of as a sort of traditional jazz. A measure is a numerical or sequential cycle of music. In a 4-4 measure, there are two pairs of speed-ups and slowdowns. This gives it a bounce and swing feel. Somehow, perhaps through west-African musical roots, even reggae can have a similar feel. For the case of rock, a foundational rhythm is like this: 4-4, cymbal on each count, bass on two, snare or snap on four. It feels sort of like a train. So swing and rock are supposed to be avoided here, which your example and mine from the OP sort of do. Blast beats from punk and metal count, as do polka beats. Much music with syncopated beats doesn't count here.

EDIT: Your example does actually have a blues rhythm in the acoustic section at the end of the album.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Bartok's string quartets incorporate a lot of Hungarian/Bulgarian folk dance rhythms, esp. in the faster movements.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'll try to refine this more: there are derivations of swing
and rock beats thoughout many genres of music. For swing, there is a U.S. sort of bounce to the beat, which is today thought of as a sort of traditional jazz. A measure is a numerical or sequential cycle of music. In a 4-4 measure, there are two pairs of speed-ups and slowdowns. This gives it a bounce and swing feel. Somehow, perhaps through west-African musical roots, even reggae can have a similar feel. For the case of rock, a foundational rhythm is like this: 4-4, cymbal on each count, bass on two, snare or snap on four. It feels sort of like a train. So swing and rock are supposed to be avoided here, which your example and mine from the OP sort of do. Blast beats from punk and metal count, as do polka beats. Much music with syncopated beats doesn't count here.

I’m not sure if I’m following you here, so apologies if I’m missing your point. 4/4 time simply means that there are 4 beats to a measure and a quarter note is one beat. 3/4 time would be 3 beats to a measure with a quarter note being one beat. The time signature says nothing about emphasis (“speed-ups, slow-downs”).

Also, there are plenty of rock songs in odd time signatures. Whipping Post for example is in 11/8.

 

[Hippasus]

I’m not sure if I’m following you here, so apologies if I’m missing your point. 4/4 time simply means that there are 4 beats to a measure and a quarter note is one beat. 3/4 time would be 3 beats to a measure with a quarter note being one beat. The time signature says nothing about emphasis (“speed-ups, slow-downs”).

Also, there are plenty of rock songs in odd time signatrues. Whipping Post for example is in 11/8.

True, but the measure or time signature is the background and there can still be syncopation, rapid beats, or empty spaces within that background.

 

[Xelebes]

A lot of pop music in Europe is not at all influenced by blues. So you just look at the pop charts of a country and find something. So here is a mix of popular Greek tsifteteli music. You can look at the description for a list of artists. It is interesting to note how this stuff shows the Greek touch on Greek rock artists like Demi Roussos.



Artist names:

Dimitris Karadimos
Giorgos Tsalikis
Panos Kiamos
Sasa Basta Lefteris Pantazis
Giannis Tassios
Thanos Petrelis
Thanos Tzanis
Giorgio Tsalikis
Petros Imvrios

 

[Xelebes]

If anyone is wondering what defines as a blues-based rhythm, you have to understand what a backbeat is. You have a beat-setter which might be a kick or a bass (as is often done in jazz) and then the other artists have a cadence that follows, that might be a snare and the other instruments that comes after a fraction of a beat. Famously, you have to clap on the two and the four or you are not following the rhythm. You don't clap every beat because that is something Europeans do with their music.

 

[Xelebes]

Modern Slovenian polka comfortably uses drum machines, synthesisers and such. They still use the goofy antics that we associate with American polka (Weird Al, Frankie Yankovic) but they actually can portray it as sexy as well, which American artists don't try to do.

So we have groups like Atomik Harmonik, Rebeca Dremelj, Gadi, Bratov Poljanšek, Nejc Kastelic, Mladi Gamsi, Nočni skok, Dejan Vunjak

 

[Jumptheshark]

Oppie does not understand definition of rhythm.

All music has rhythm. Everything in life had a rhythm.

Listen to a train running on tracks...that is rhythm.

But in your case you mean classical music or Gaelic music or other styles prior to the mid 1800s

 

[Jumptheshark]

All music delete

 

[Hippasus]

Oppie does not understand definition of rhythm.

All music has rhythm. Everything in life had a rhythm.

Listen to a train running on tracks...that is rhythm.

But in your case you mean classical music or Gaelic music or other styles prior to the mid 1800s

I'm not precluding contemporary music. Some of it is actually not blues-based. Also, I am well aware that rhythm is everywhere, life or not.

 

[Hippasus]

All music delete

I like music.

 

[Hippasus]

Modern Slovenian polka comfortably uses drum machines, synthesisers and such. They still use the goofy antics that we associate with American polka (Weird Al, Frankie Yankovic) but they actually can portray it as sexy as well, which American artists don't try to do.

So we have groups like Atomik Harmonik, Rebeca Dremelj, Gadi, Bratov Poljanšek, Nejc Kastelic, Mladi Gamsi, Nočni skok, Dejan Vunjak

The Slovenian polka video has a derivation of the standard rock beat I gave, at multiple points. I'm trying to come up with examples that don't have said style(s). Thanks for what you've provided in this thread so far. By the way, would you say the basic rock beat I've been mentioning is blues-based?

 

[Xelebes]

The Slovenian polka video has a derivation of the standard rock beat I gave, at multiple points. I'm trying to come up with examples that don't have said style(s). Thanks for what you've provided in this thread so far. By the way, would you say the basic rock beat I've been mentioning is blues-based?

Polka is 2/4 with a familiar oompa that often gets translated with drums as a bass-snare sequence. I don't consider it being necessarily rock but it might be said that Cleveland and Milwaukee styles of polka did have an influence on the early emergence of rock. Also, be wary of interpreting music with a four-on-the-floor rhythm as being from blues. That stuff, if heavily pronounced, comes from the Native American traditions of drumming.

Here is round dance music of the Cree in Canada.

 

[Hippasus]

Polka is 2/4 with a familiar oompa that often gets translated with drums as a bass-snare sequence. I don't consider it being necessarily rock but it might be said that Cleveland and Milwaukee styles of polka did have an influence on the early emergence of rock. Also, be wary of interpreting music with a four-on-the-floor rhythm as being from blues. That stuff, if heavily pronounced, comes from the Native American traditions of drumming.

Here is round dance music of the Cree in Canada.

Bass-snare sequences stem from polka, I think. I don't think base-2 patterns, like the Cree powwow video (which I very much liked, by the way), are much rock at all. It's Native American, polka, punk, grindcore, and metal. But yes, rock doesn't neccesarily come from blues. Rock is a bit of a hodgepodge. The train rock beat might be an instance of that.

 

[Xelebes]

The large problem with rock is that especially after the British invasion, it employed European rhythms more often than they did use traditional American rhythms. This was done to largely appeal to white American audiences who might sometimes dig the blues sound but often prefered something familiar, whether that be old-time fiddle, polka or such. Neil Peart is widely heralded as one of the best rock drummers but it is clear that most often his rhythms are influenced by Fred Townsend and Jean Carignan rather than Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich as he frequently quotes. You can hear the reel taps in his music that he plays straight. In his later works, he corrects this by actually playing rock rhythms for longer periods of time.

As a result of this, I focus on blues-based rhythms moreso than rock rhythms. If you are clapping with the rolling beat and not following it in cadence on the two and four, you're probably not clapping the American clave. If you spend more time bobbing up and down to the music as opposed to swaying side-to-side, you're probably dancing to something that is more European than Bluesy, or at least interpreting the rhythm as a European might.

 

[peate]

Oppie does not understand definition of rhythm.

All music has rhythm. Everything in life had a rhythm.

Listen to a train running on tracks...that is rhythm.

My favourite rhythm machine is the washer. Especially the older wringer types.

Not all music has rhythm though, Tibetan chants are all atonal and rhythm-less.

 

[peate]

If anyone is wondering what defines as a blues-based rhythm, you have to understand what a backbeat is. You have a beat-setter which might be a kick or a bass (as is often done in jazz) and then the other artists have a cadence that follows, that might be a snare and the other instruments that comes after a fraction of a beat. Famously, you have to clap on the two and the four or you are not following the rhythm. You don't clap every beat because that is something Europeans do with their music.

Ever see this video where Harry Connick Jr. Fools the audience into clapping on the correct beat?

 

[Xelebes]

Yep, have seen it a few times.

 

[Hippasus]

My favourite rhythm machine is the washer. Especially the older wringer types.

Not all music has rhythm though, Tibetan chants are all atonal and rhythm-less.

To be rhythmless, at least the performers would have no regard for time or sequence in thought and-or behavior. I think there has to be some contrast between beginning, middle, or end. This contrast would be integral to the music. Thus there would have to be some rhythm.

 

[peate]

To be rhythmless, at least the performers would have no regard for time or sequence in thought and-or behavior. I think there has to be some contrast between beginning, middle, or end. This contrast would be integral to the music. Thus there would have to be some rhythm.

True, but that's more timing than rhythm, there's a slight difference.