Post-Game Talk: Noel Watch Begins! Jets nap to a 2-1 loss

[Hank Chinaski]

And if it works these posts turn into Noel is a genius
And if he leaves it people complain about Noel not doing anything.
The coach is trying to do what he can with what he has.

Every coach tries to do what he can with what he has. On the other hand, a good coach can typically make it happen with what he has. Something to consider.

 

[sipowicz]

Good post, you've captured how I feel about Noel and this roster to a T.

We're already into season 3 with Noel at the helm, and this team lacks any sort of identity. There's no system or fundamentals that you can always count on always being there. You look at a team like LA, even when they're playing pretty marginal hockey (like they were in Winnipeg this past week), you know they're always going to be forechecking hard and creating turnovers. Even as you go further down the list in terms of team quality, you can look at a team like the Isles. They're always going to be playing fast with speed through the neutral zone, trying to burn teams with their transition game.

What can you count on the Jets doing exceptionally well on any given night, regardless of how the team is playing? Collapsing in their own end? Committing soft turnovers all over the rink?

Having no true systems or identity is excusable for a team in transition, but this is year three with the same coach and same core. Who knows, maybe it will click. Maybe we'll see the team that played fast and physical vs. the Kings on a consistent basis, and these last two games will be a blip on the radar. As I said though, each ****** performance like the one we saw last night makes me less and less convinced that Noel is the right man for the job here.

Well put, I've been a Noel fan up until now but the team seems to have tuned him out. With a speedy big team not playing like one and not getting nearly enough shots to the net every game seems like a flawed system and not the players. Face-off's are another story.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I hope this serves as a wake-up call. What I find the most disappointing, is this group seems to "play up" or "play down" to their opponents.

The late Wpg. Tribune sports editor Jack Matheson actually coined a term for this behaviour when he covered the Bombers a long time ago. It's called the BOZO SYNDROME.

 

[Sly Jets Fan]

Fair enough Tuna. Chevy has the same mindset. Keep the talent we have and the team will grow together and thrive. Problem is - they have been together for several years in ATL and WPG. The results seem pretty obvious. I won't blame it all on the players though, this is a coaching and GM problem first. Once these two go, we'll have a chance. We need a veteran coach and a veteran GM (and not in that order).

You keep ragging on the coach and now the GM. I can understand the coaching concerns taking into account how the team has played recently, but what has Chevy done to lose his job?

I'm just as critical as the next person and I can't think of anything he has done badly that would contribute to him losing his job.

The hiring of Noel initially was a total management decision right from the top, so if you have always disliked Noel, then you should blame True North and not just Chevy. I'm not completely defending Noel. Pretty soon I'm going to be one with the mindset that he should be fired too, I'm just not quite there yet, but Chevy's job is as safe as can be in my eyes.

 

[Duke749]

Good post, you've captured how I feel about Noel and this roster to a T.

We're already into season 3 with Noel at the helm, and this team lacks any sort of identity. There's no system or fundamentals that you can always count on always being there. You look at a team like LA, even when they're playing pretty marginal hockey (like they were in Winnipeg this past week), you know they're always going to be forechecking hard and creating turnovers. Even as you go further down the list in terms of team quality, you can look at a team like the Isles. They're always going to be playing fast with speed through the neutral zone, trying to burn teams with their transition game.

What can you count on the Jets doing exceptionally well on any given night, regardless of how the team is playing? Collapsing in their own end? Committing soft turnovers all over the rink?

Having no true systems or identity is excusable for a team in transition, but this is year three with the same coach and same core. Who knows, maybe it will click. Maybe we'll see the team that played fast and physical vs. the Kings on a consistent basis, and these last two games will be a blip on the radar. As I said though, each ****** performance like the one we saw last night makes me less and less convinced that Noel is the right man for the job here.

I give it a month into the season before I'm too convinced. It's concerning that even in year 3 that we are seeing things that we saw in year 1 and from some of the same players. We shouldn't see so many similarities.

 

[Bob E]

The current state of the Jets definitely reminds me of the St. Louis Blues pre-Hitch.

Decent talent, but never really played to their potential. Missed the playoffs a number of years, made it one year, then missed a couple of years in a row.

Then Hitch came in, turned their fortunes around immediately, and they are now regarded as a top team in the West, with good reason. They had very little change in personnel, though the continual development of Backes, AP, Berglund, and Oshie and moves to acquire two quality tenders in elliot and Halak, sure helped too.

Is another Hitch currently out there?

 

[Grind]

Originally posted this in the fire noel thread (MODS feel free to remove it from there)



there is one of two problems , possibly both, with this team.

1. The coach can't communicate. The team looks uninspired and lost a lot of the time and just can't generally play as a team better then opponents. Now you can blame individual skaters, but to me it's pretty widespread to be individuals. So either our existing coach can't communicate/motivate/connect with this core or

2. 80% of our team is incapable. Incapable of playing the system, incapable of "playing with heart", whatever you want to call it. it just boils down to incapable of playing better then the majority of the players on the otherside of the ice, as a team and to an individual.

So either

A) we have a coach that isn't good.

or

B) we have 12 players who aren't good, which would lead me to believe that our GM probably isn't the greatest at spotting talent or at least the right type of talent for our coach.

So either we should fire the coach or make significant changes to the roster.

Firing the coach seems easier and safer at this point.

DISCLAIMER: I don't actually think we need to fire the coach- BUT I am very much sick of the complaint of our players not playing the system, or it being the players fault. I'd be fine with that if it was one or two guys. But its not.

It's 2.5 lines of forwards and half our D that are apparently "not playing the system".

After three years, that has to be one of two things. The coach can't get buy in or the GM keeps giving him the wrong pieces. Either way, the logical option (least work/cost vs reward) would be finding a coach who fits the pieces we have and can implement a system.

 

[Bartho]

Can't help but notice you didn't post in any of the PGT's when we won games. Where were you then?

Excellent question. It must be depressing to only be able to talk about your team when they lose.

 

[Guerzy]

The current state of the Jets definitely reminds me of the St. Louis Blues pre-Hitch.

Decent talent, but never really played to their potential. Missed the playoffs a number of years, made it one year, then missed a couple of years in a row.

Then Hitch came in, turned their fortunes around immediately, and they are now regarded as a top team in the West, with good reason. They had very little change in personnel, though the continual development of Backes, AP, Berglund, and Oshie and moves to acquire two quality tenders in elliot and Halak, sure helped too.

Is another Hitch currently out there?

Great post, Bob. Some excellent points to consider here, I think.

 

[King Woodballs]

Every coach tries to do what he can with what he has. On the other hand, a good coach can typically make it happen with what he has. Something to consider.

So you are telling me Scotty bowman could have made the 1975 capitals a playoff team?

 

[Grind]

So you are telling me Scotty bowman could have made the 1975 capitals a playoff team?

the 1975 capitals were not a typical team. thus the situation was not typical. Thus "a good coach can typically do this" doesn't apply as the situation isn't typical.

 

[Tdoe42]

The Wild are a completely different team than what they have been in the past. They actually have a pretty decent level of talent now and forecheck very aggressively. This year the dman are pinching in and taking a lot more chances than in years past.

On paper they are different but looks the same

 

[mkoivu9*]

I hope this serves as a wake-up call. What I find the most disappointing, is this group seems to "play up" or "play down" to their opponents. A week ago tonight when we faced LA, sure we started the game not overly great and got outshot by a fair margin through the 1st period, but above all else our compete level was right there with LA, in my opinion, and it showed by our physical game. We were engaged. Through the 2nd and 3rd we picked up our shots but maintained our strong, physical game. We pretty well took LA's brand of physicality, shoved it back in their faces and carried on about our business.

I loved our compete level and focus in that game. We were setting the tone. We did the same thing last season at the beginning (vs. Boston, I believe?) and you would think given the success we have when we play physical and engaged against these top teams that we could learn a lesson or two in bringing that approach on most nights, but, we don't. That is the difference between good teams and bad teams. What are you willing to do as a group to win? we have yet to show that aspect of consistency in our 3rd season to date.

We tend to always play up or down to our opponent depending on who it is. That is what I am finding most disappointing about this group.

I understand it's unrealistic to come out balls to the wall every, single game, but for the most part we should be able to do that, and apply what we did vs. LA a week ago. When we do that, we are one hell of a difficult team to beat. We can go toe-to-toe with ANY team in the league. We may not win, we may get outshot, but we can surely dance with them and hold our own.

Just curious, are you saying the Jets played down to the Wilds level of competition lastnight?

This should of been a huge game for the Jets as your fans have been pumping the potential rivalry since the new conferences were formed (not a bad thing by any means)

 

[Flair Hay]

Just curious, are you saying the Jets played down to the Wilds level of competition lastnight?

This should of been a huge game for the Jets as your fans have been pumping the potential rivalry since the new conferences were formed (not a bad thing by any means)

No, more like when they play a top 5 NHL team, they almost always bring their A game. They do all the little thing necessary to win. Divisional games or inferior opponents there is usually inconsistency galore. I don't think anyone here thinks our roster is better than the Wild's.

 

[Guerzy]

No, more like when they play a top 5 NHL team, they almost always bring their A game. They do all the little thing necessary to win. Divisional games or inferior opponents there is usually inconsistency galore. I don't think anyone here thinks our roster is better than the Wild's.

Well said, bhay, thanks.

mkoivu9, I was by no means intending our roster is better than the Wilds. I am actually a big fan of Minnesota's roster, and they are a team I see as having the potential to go deep in the playoffs.

 

[Bob E]

Maybe Noel has a communication problem with the players.

When he says he wants to limit the shots during the next game, the players think he doesn't want THEM to shoot. He just has to communicate more.

 

[Jet]

Ya, its just frustrating with Ladd, and Wheelers play. Kane is struggling but meh. I just think they need to find a way to get Scheif and Seto's icetime up a little bit. Playing them 10-13 minutes a game is not good, when Wright, Tangradi are playing the same, no offence to those 2.

They just need to play KSS more. The first and 2nd lines should be getting as many minutes as they can handle, the 3rd line has looked good so they should get the lion's share of what is left and the 4th line should see spot duty.

 

[Jet]

No idea why you're blindly assuming he's talking about you. He didn't specify anyone at all, and I don't even see the point in responding in the first place. We can't fault Pavs in any game so it's pointless to even bring it up.

Yes, if Noel does start Pavs, I will be seriously questioning his ability to learn, adjust, and adapt. Unless of course Pavs puts up a great game. But no one really expects it. Give Montoya the dam start.

Not sure why you are blindly assuming I am blindly assuming he's talking about me.

See how that works?

The vast majority (like pretty close to 100%) of the 'Pavs haters' are people who love the Jets, want Pavelec to succeed, but want his performance and stats to improve. He was making it seem like there was some vociferous Pavelec hate group on here. C'Mon, he's not Miettenen or Ran_y Jones

 

[BigZ65]

I think Noel juggles lines far too quickly when things aren't going well, his habit is trying to over coach the team out of bad spells, hasn't worked yet.

I don't mind the juggling, but he gives the juggled lines one shift then juggles again. Last night Wheeler should have been on the 4th line by the end of the game, he juggled the lines, but by the final minute it was LLW out there with Kane as the extra attacker. Wheeler didn't earn the right to be out there in the last minute, he created nothing last night, I would have felt more confident with Frolik or Setoguchi out there.

 

[rkp]

The one that I find very noticeable about Noel during a game is that he does not fight for his team...bad penalties or non calls....he never takes on a ref .....Maclean, Carlyle, Yeo...etc......other coaches don't seem afraid to question a ref's decision or non decision....hard to fight for coach when a coach will not fight for you.

As far as systems, have to wonder if Noel is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....players talents and abilities, define a system around them, example is Washington with Hunter and now Oates....also, Noel bringing in a coach fired from Montreal(P. Pearn), who last season, was not an improvement, power play was a joke.

it seems very obvious that the players are not inspired or do seem a bit confused about the system.......most of the players are offensive minded yet are playing in a system of defensive type of shell negating most of their abilities...far too many changing line make ups during a game or maybe wrong line make ups to start with. Have to remember Noel was hired because he was close at hand...had enough of a credibility to pass muster as a head coach in the NHL.....funny how Lawless is waving Noels flag(as he was the first to nominate Noel as coach when the jets arrived!!) and going after the players for the play.....same players....same coach ...same system ...same result.

 

[Mud Turtle]

The one that I find very noticeable about Noel during a game is that he does not fight for his team...bad penalties or non calls....he never takes on a ref .....Maclean, Carlyle, Yeo...etc......other coaches don't seem afraid to question a ref's decision or non decision....hard to fight for coach when a coach will not fight for you.

As far as systems, have to wonder if Noel is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....players talents and abilities, define a system around them, example is Washington with Hunter and now Oates....also, Noel bringing in a coach fired from Montreal(P. Pearn), who last season, was not an improvement, power play was a joke.

it seems very obvious that the players are not inspired or do seem a bit confused about the system.......most of the players are offensive minded yet are playing in a system of defensive type of shell negating most of their abilities...far too many changing line make ups during a game or maybe wrong line make ups to start with. Have to remember Noel was hired because he was close at hand...had enough of a credibility to pass muster as a head coach in the NHL.....funny how Lawless is waving Noels flag(as he was the first to nominate Noel as coach when the jets arrived!!) and going after the players for the play.....same players....same coach ...same system ...same result.

It looks like the players are out there concentrating too much on not making mistakes. That makes them think too much and thus they're always one step behind.

I think a coach sets the reset button by telling his guys to just go out there, play hard and do what comes naturally for one game.

 

[King Woodballs]

Not sure why you are blindly assuming I am blindly assuming he's talking about me.

See how that works?

The vast majority (like pretty close to 100%) of the 'Pavs haters' are people who love the Jets, want Pavelec to succeed, but want his performance and stats to improve. He was making it seem like there was some vociferous Pavelec hate group on here. C'Mon, he's not Miettenen or Ran_y Jones

After reading this board for the past two and a half years I have to disagree.

To me that is exactly what I it is around here
Makes this place unreadable and unbareable allot of times

 

[folix]

The one that I find very noticeable about Noel during a game is that he does not fight for his team...bad penalties or non calls....he never takes on a ref .....Maclean, Carlyle, Yeo...etc......other coaches don't seem afraid to question a ref's decision or non decision....hard to fight for coach when a coach will not fight for you.

As far as systems, have to wonder if Noel is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole....players talents and abilities, define a system around them, example is Washington with Hunter and now Oates....also, Noel bringing in a coach fired from Montreal(P. Pearn), who last season, was not an improvement, power play was a joke.

it seems very obvious that the players are not inspired or do seem a bit confused about the system.......most of the players are offensive minded yet are playing in a system of defensive type of shell negating most of their abilities...far too many changing line make ups during a game or maybe wrong line make ups to start with. Have to remember Noel was hired because he was close at hand...had enough of a credibility to pass muster as a head coach in the NHL.....funny how Lawless is waving Noels flag(as he was the first to nominate Noel as coach when the jets arrived!!) and going after the players for the play.....same players....same coach ...same system ...same result.

You nailed it, you notice with the two games we won we played a totally different style and we won? And in the presser afterwards Noel was pissed. The three games we lost he was overly positive in the pressers afterwards. This leads me to believe that guys are doing EXACTLY what he is telling them to do and we are getting crushed doing it. Thats not good.

Im growing awful tired of the line juggling on a shift to shift basis, I was at the game and our changes were sloppy because of it.

Guys like Tang and Wright are 4th liners but are constantly being pushed into roles that doesnt fit their skill set. Clitsome should NEVER EVER have been put as the 4th dman. Not only that but it shouldnt have taken Noel 3 games to figure out that Trouba is far better off with Bogo.

We are a fast skating offensive minded team. We dont have the slow positional minded team that lends itself to playing a 1-4 system. We have a team that is going to beat you 6-4 not 2-1. The team is not built to play in those types of games.

Despite what alot of the people out their think, you dont have to trap to win hockey games, if you score first or more then you push the other team out of their game plan into ours. We are for better or worse a run and gun team. Noel is determined to make it a 1-4 style team, that simply wont work.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Yeah I feel that way too about the team. All the talk about the scary new division and its heavy play is overblown. Playing their game isn't the only way to beat them. If you are fast enough and work to out-hustle them then you put them in the position of having to chase you.

 

[Jet]

Closed.