Player Discussion Noah Hanifin

[Mobiandi]

It has to be long-term. This wouldnt be so drawn out for a bridge

 

[Lunatik]

It has to be long-term. This wouldnt be so drawn out for a bridge

sure it could

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I have it on good authority that the holdup was that Treliving put a clause in this contract that Noah cannot go to any museums unless teammates accompany him.

 

[DFF]

and no brother

 

[super6646]

Reddit insider says it's team friendly but doesn't provide numbers. If we get him for under 5 million I'll be pretty shocked.

 

[Shawnofthedeadz]

Reddit insider says it's team friendly but doesn't provide numbers. If we get him for under 5 million I'll be pretty shocked.

Brad's full of surprises

 

[Fig]

I liked his quote from Brad regarding Hani'fine:

“We’re talking about a 21-year-old guy who has played three years in the NHL,” Treliving said, via Postmedia’s Kristen Anderson. “I don’t buy into that, ‘Oh, he’s not where he should be.’ Most guys his age are learning to walk and chew gum at the same time.”

Source: Risk, reward: Hanifin’s deal; future of Flames

Makes this deal taste so much sweeter

 

[Lunatik]

I liked his quote from Brad regarding Hani'fine:



Source: Risk, reward: Hanifin’s deal; future of Flames

Makes this deal taste so much sweeter

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in the whole "he's been in the NHL for three years" thing. He was rushed to the NHL by a shitth team.

 

[Fig]

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in the whole "he's been in the NHL for three years" thing. He was rushed to the NHL by a ****th team.

More like, Brad likes him, I don't see why I shouldn't as well. That and what I get from that quote is, "He has core tools to stick in the NHL. Now it's about making sure he rounds out and continues to stay above and surpass other dmen his age."

 

[Corpus X]

I do agree that we should keep perspective and not jump on the Hanifin will be a top tier player, but the tools are there for him to be a good player.

This season is still going to be tough as the teams in the WC aren't potato guns...

Fun fact takeaway - NHL teams aren't potato guns.

 

[Lunatik]

More like, Brad likes him, I don't see why I shouldn't as well. That and what I get from that quote is, "He has core tools to stick in the NHL. Now it's about making sure he rounds out and continues to stay above and surpass other dmen his age."

I'm not saying don't like him, I'm saying temper expectations. I like Hanifin alot and think he has a shit ton of potential, but at this point in time he isn't as good as many Flames fans seem to think he is.

 

[Fig]

I'm not saying don't like him, I'm saying temper expectations. I like Hanifin alot and think he has a **** ton of potential, but at this point in time he isn't as good as many Flames fans seem to think he is.

I think that's a fair take, but when I revisit the Dougie Hamilton journey, one thing does stick out to me.

A huge chunk of the positive in Dougie Hamilton was his contract. Back when he first started, there were times when he'd struggle. It's just that it was ok to overlook with the caphit he was at. I think Hanifin is the same here. Built into his contract is a minor message (IMO) that sorta says that both sides admit there will be a bumpy road and the contract reflects it (and perhaps helps to insulate said player from exaggerated expectations). However, if the player makes it to the end of the journey as desired, the club should be given the benefits of the contract due to putting said player to succeed. Dougie's value is still tied heavily into his contract. His contract and value isn't as sexy if it's in the 6 mil AAV territory. Still very good, but not great as it currently is.

Is it a stretch? Maybe.

But CMD and Draisaitl's contracts essentially say those two guys are main drivers and don't need as much supporting cast to succeed. In fact, if a supporting cast is required, the options available to the GM is much more limited.

Hanifin's contract isn't like that. Not only does it give the GM plenty of options to work more talent into the cast to support the player and team, it also gives the player flexibility in terms of being able to spend extra time with said insulation. This might be important in terms of the fact dmen need that support. I believe bridge contracts are supposed to be like this over long term contracts. However, looking at Hanifin's contract, I can't help but think it reads slightly like it has a bridge built into the long term contract.

I like that.

 

[Lunatik]

I think that's a fair take, but when I revisit the Dougie Hamilton journey, one thing does stick out to me.

A huge chunk of the positive in Dougie Hamilton was his contract. Back when he first started, there were times when he'd struggle. It's just that it was ok to overlook with the caphit he was at. I think Hanifin is the same here. Built into his contract is a minor message (IMO) that sorta says that both sides admit there will be a bumpy road and the contract reflects it (and perhaps helps to insulate said player from exaggerated expectations). However, if the player makes it to the end of the journey as desired, the club should be given the benefits of the contract due to putting said player to succeed. Dougie's value is still tied heavily into his contract. His contract and value isn't as sexy if it's in the 6 mil AAV territory. Still very good, but not great as it currently is.

Is it a stretch? Maybe.

But CMD and Draisaitl's contracts essentially say those two guys are main drivers and don't need as much supporting cast to succeed. In fact, if a supporting cast is required, the options available to the GM is much more limited.

Hanifin's contract isn't like that. Not only does it give the GM plenty of options to work more talent into the cast to support the player and team, it also gives the player flexibility in terms of being able to spend extra time with said insulation. This might be important in terms of the fact dmen need that support. I believe bridge contracts are supposed to be like this over long term contracts. However, looking at Hanifin's contract, I can't help but think it reads slightly like it has a bridge built into the long term contract.

I like that.

I think this is very comparable to the situation in which we acquired Hamilton, in fact, I would go as far as saying it almost mirrors it (ignoring the assets in the trade). Young offensive defenseman, 3 years into their career, known to have defensive struggles. However, Hamilton was not being sheltered in the same way Hanifin was. Hamilton was sheltered in the sense that he played almost exclusively with Chara and Seidenberg. Hanifin, on the other-hand was sheltered using quality of competition.

I think Noah has top 2 potential, but he may not be ready for a full-time top 4 spot just yet and we do need to mentally prepare for that. This is why Stone is still here IMO, insurance, in case Hanifin does still need to be sheltered.

 

[SKRusty]

I think this is very comparable to the situation in which we acquired Hamilton, in fact, I would go as far as saying it almost mirrors it (ignoring the assets in the trade). Young offensive defenseman, 3 years into their career, known to have defensive struggles. However, Hamilton was not being sheltered in the same way Hanifin was. Hamilton was sheltered in the sense that he played almost exclusively with Chara and Seidenberg. Hanifin, on the other-hand was sheltered using quality of competition.

I think Noah has top 2 potential, but he may not be ready for a full-time top 4 spot just yet and we do need to mentally prepare for that. This is why Stone is still here IMO, insurance, in case Hanifin does still need to be sheltered.

Quit trying to beat your opinion into other peoples heads we heard you the first 40 times.

I would argue Hamilton because of the depth on the Bruins was in a manner more sheltered as he had proven NHLers in front of him. Factor in the horrid save percentage in Carolina and it tips more towards Hanifin.

Hamilton's stats were greatly inflated (especially in the second half) as he was given the green light to attack at will while GIO was told to hold down the fort so Tre could get the best trade possible. Hamilton will likely get 10ish goals and 25 assists in Carolina.

Hanifin will likely get 42 this year 12ish goals 30 assists with actual talent on the ice. The talent surrounding Hanifin will show he is the best player in that trade this year. In years to come it may be Lindholm but for now it is Noah. Hamilton is not the d-man everyone thinks he is. Hamilton has been sheltered by playing with all world Gio. Gio is by far the best and most complete d-man on the team period and likely in the top 10 in the NHL.

 

[Lunatik]

Quit trying to beat your opinion into other peoples heads we heard you the first 40 times.

It's called a f***ing discussion, it's the entire f***ing premise of these boards. If you don't like my opinion, put me on ignore.

 

[Rubi]

Quit trying to beat your opinion into other peoples heads we heard you the first 40 times.

This comment was totally unnecessary and was purposely inflammatory. Be better than this.

I would argue Hamilton because of the depth on the Bruins was in a manner more sheltered as he had proven NHLers in front of him. Factor in the horrid save percentage in Carolina and it tips more towards Hanifin.

Hamilton's stats were greatly inflated (especially in the second half) as he was given the green light to attack at will while GIO was told to hold down the fort so Tre could get the best trade possible. Hamilton will likely get 10ish goals and 25 assists in Carolina.

Hanifin will likely get 42 this year 12ish goals 30 assists with actual talent on the ice. The talent surrounding Hanifin will show he is the best player in that trade this year. In years to come it may be Lindholm but for now it is Noah. Hamilton is not the d-man everyone thinks he is. Hamilton has been sheltered by playing with all world Gio. Gio is by far the best and most complete d-man on the team period and likely in the top 10 in the NHL.

Hamilton has gotten 42+ pts every year for the past 4 years no matter who he's played with. He'll get the same in Carolina. I doubt that Hanifin will jump to 42 pts this year. That's a 30% increase in production. 35 to 38 pts is much more reasonable.

 

[Lunatik]

This comment was totally unnecessary and was purposely inflammatory. Be better than this.
Hamilton has gotten 42+ pts every year for the past 4 years no matter who he's played with. He'll get the same in Carolina. I doubt that Hanifin will jump to 42 pts this year. That's a 30% increase in production. 35 to 38 pts is much more reasonable.

Hanifin's production may actually decrease this year and no one should be shocked by that and it won't have anything to do with his development path.

Last year Hanifin was sheltered in both QoC and in zone starts. Playing with Hamonic, he will see both tougher opponents and more defensive zone starts. Both of those factors will make getting on the score sheet more difficult for him.

Another factor will be the PP, will he even get regular PP time? I am leaning towards no. I suspect Gio will be the lone defenseman on the top unit, if the 2nd unit also used 4F and 1D, I suspect Brodie will get the majority of those minutes for the D.

 

[Rubi]

Hanifin's production may actually decrease this year and no one should be shocked by that and it won't have anything to do with his development path.

Last year Hanifin was sheltered in both QoC and in zone starts. Playing with Hamonic, he will see both tougher opponents and more defensive zone starts. Both of those factors will make getting on the score sheet more difficult for him.

Another factor will be the PP, will he even get regular PP time? I am leaning towards no. I suspect Gio will be the lone defenseman on the top unit, if the 2nd unit also used 4F and 1D, I suspect Brodie will get the majority of those minutes for the D.

Did Peters use a 4-1 PP structure in Carolina, for one or both PP units?
If Gio and Brodie click again this year I think it's entirely possible that we see a 3-2 PP for both units. Brodano on the first unit and Hamifin on the second.

 

[Lunatik]

Did Peters use a 4-1 PP structure in Carolina, for one or both PP units?
If Gio and Brodie click again this year I think it's entirely possible that we see a 3-2 PP for both units. Brodano on the first unit and Hamifin on the second.

Looks like 4-1 based on PP TOI, only 2 defensemen in the top 10.

Also, I think it is extremely unlikely we go 3-2 on the top unit. I'm absolutely positive they're going to put out Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Neal together with Giordano as the top unit.

 

[Rubi]

Usually when you go with a 3-2 pp unit you're sacrificing some offensive fire power but I don't believe that's the case if you have Gio and Brodie out there together on the pp. I also don't quite trust Brodie to be out there by himself.
I think the following pp units will look good:
#1
JG-Mony-Lindholm
Gio-Brodie
#2
Chucky-Backs-Neal
Hanifin-Hamonic

Two equally balanced pp units with the possibility of Ryan replacing Backs.

 

[Fig]

Hamilton was sheltered using defensive minded vets covering for him. I think he still ends up receiving that in Carolina. Though there are facets to point at that seem like Hamilton did significantly benefit from his partner, I would also point out that Hamilton did his job and put up points. Hanifin as mentioned was sheltered using QoC.

I'd like to reiterate, I'm not interested in slagging Hamilton. I think he will continue to do well in Carolina, however, there are things that irk me. It's not a true slag on Hamilton as it's an opinion of mine in terms of how I think he may develop, and I really do not believe he would be guaranteed to be a #1 utilizing my opinion, but I can't help but agree with some posters in the sense that I was expecting Gio's game to rub off on Hamilton, as opposed to seeing Hamilton continue to entrench into his own style. The latter isn't completely wrong, but if Hamilton had begun modeling his game off of Gio, then there'd definitely be more support in terms of the plausibility of Hamilton becoming a surefire #1. Now, keep also in mind that Hamilton modeling his game off Gio rather than play his own game could have also have completely messed him up too, so I'm not going to slag Hamilton for not doing so... but I still wonder what the alternate reality would have looked like. This same curiosity is now again piqued when looking at Hanifin.


A huge part of the underrated aspect of how Hamilton was developed, was that the vets around him (plentiful) soaked up most of the negative attention and pressure when times were rough. Think of a sort of intangible like an ozone layer to soak up solar radiation. Hanifin sorta had that being on the 3rd pairing via QoC, but I am wondering if he was still exposed to the same pressures and criticisms no different than the top pairing, being that 5th overall pick as well as being part of that super young high potential core. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but did Peters roll the 3 D pairings closer in TOI than how Gully rolled the top pairing in TOI vs our bottom pairing?

I can't help but wonder if that was a factor in the way he plays. For instance, one of the criticisms of his is that he isn't too physical. Little of that Carolina core was physical. I wonder if that as a form of mandate in general from Peters as a self preservation method for the entire team, or a form of self preservation Hanifin implemented himself to ensure maximum quality TOI with the least man games lost or quality of play lost to injuries (nagging or otherwise). Consider the other teams in the Carolina division. Matching that level of physical style over a season would be suicide, especially with the age and size of the team. I think Peters will utilize our size and style effectively in Calgary. I want to see him do that, I hope he does it. Carolina was a heck of a team in terms of neutral zone clogging with their speedy skilled wingers. I think it will be just as effective with a bit of sandpaper and physicality rolled in... sorta like a small paragraph or page ripped out of Darryl Sutter's style.

I have heard that there are some criticisms that Peters tweaked too much on occasion, but with this roster, I feel like that would be very welcomed and scary for many other teams. On paper, we have an insane amount of options for forwards that should be effective. What may separate one line from the other are small tiny synergies between player personalities and styles that help the consistency of a line. I am so freaking excited for the season to start. More excited than I have been in a long, long, long time.

Currently, with guys like Gio and Hamonic around him who do use the body more, does Hanifin soak that in and emulate it as well to round out his game (ie: work towards absorbing the little things that Gio does to develop closer to a #1)?

Or does he take it as an environment that allows him to continue playing his style and perhaps play it as well if not better than before (ie: same as Hamilton and Brodie who may possibly top out as excellent #2, and not the type of guys who can carry a 4/5 player as a #1 and be a respectable top pairing season in, season out).

 

[Lunatik]

@Fig

Last ysst Gulutzan seemed to use the third pairing about 12:30-12:45 per game, at ES, based on the TOI by Kulak and Bart.

In Carolina, Peters appeared to use the bottom pairing 15:15-15:30 pee games, at ES, based in the ice time of van Reimsdgk and Dahlbeck.

So you correct in think I g Hanifin may have played more than our third pairing.

 

[Volica]

Usually when you go with a 3-2 pp unit you're sacrificing some offensive fire power but I don't believe that's the case if you have Gio and Brodie out there together on the pp. I also don't quite trust Brodie to be out there by himself.
I think the following pp units will look good:
#1
JG-Mony-Lindholm
Gio-Brodie
#2
Chucky-Backs-Neal
Hanifin-Hamonic

Two equally balanced pp units with the possibility of Ryan replacing Backs.

Pretty sure they'll use 1D on one of the PP's, Hammer shouldn't be on a PP.

PP1:
Johnny - Mony - Neal
Tkachuk - Brodie/Hanifin

PP2
Benny - Backs - Lindholm
Hanifin/Brodie - Giordano

 

[Rubi]

Pretty sure they'll use 1D on one of the PP's, Hammer shouldn't be on a PP.

PP1:
Johnny - Mony - Neal
Tkachuk - Brodie/Hanifin

PP2
Benny - Backs - Lindholm
Hanifin/Brodie - Giordano

I think you're underrating Hamonic. No reason why you shouldn't be able to play your #3 D-man on the PP. If you can't then you've got a problem. As for Bennett I'd rather see Janko or Ryan out there. So far Bennett doesn't deserve it and he's more likely to take a stupid penalty that nullifies the PP.
Also with Brodie and Gio on the same PP unit both those guys are so good offensively it's just like playing with 4 forwards.

 

[Lunatik]

I think you're underrating Hamonic. No reason why you shouldn't be able to play your #3 D-man on the PP. If you can't then you've got a problem. As for Bennett I'd rather see Janko or Ryan out there. So far Bennett doesn't deserve it and he's more likely to take a stupid penalty that nullifies the PP.
Also with Brodie and Gio on the same PP unit both those guys are so good offensively it's just like playing with 4 forwards.

Hamonic is a modern day Regehr, he has no place on the PP.

And no, neither Brodie or Giordano are just like forwards.