Post-Game Talk (GBU): No one out-tanks us

[Royisgone]

Definitely agree - at least the tank years held promise. We accumulated a ton of value and finally got our top center. Then we proceeded to spend all of our assets on Lehner, Kane, Bogo, ROR, and signed 7 year contracts for funsies. Then the new GM sold most of those assets for scraps. As for our prospects, we have completely failed to develop talent with terrible coaching and worse personnel choices. Risto, Middlestadt, Thompson, Nylander, Guhle...who have we put in positions to succeed? Oloffson?

So here we stand -- similar to the Roy/Vanek years - does anyone see this core of players leading the charge through the playoffs? ROR looked like that player two years ago, but it only took a few months of Housley to kill his love of the game.

Make no mistake! It is bleak around here right now and it does not look like it's going to get better any time soon.

We have very little to show for 8 years of garbage right now.

 

[Royisgone]

No. It's time to make smart moves to build the roster around those guys.

But this is Botterill and he's shown himself to be a tool, so yeah, he'll probably swap out some pieces and consistently get worse.

You must have missed the part about him being the only 3 time World Junior gold medal guy in the world. Oh, and he's "smart."

Terry loves him!

Mark my words! This all comes down to Pegula and that is not going to change any time soon.

We're hosed.

 

[JThorne]

The UGLY: everything said today by the Pegulas with regard to hockey. Terry seems to love him some "Botts" and Phil too! Let's pray to God it's just talk and both are gone soon.

Terry also seemed to be honest in indicating that he is not interested in adding a "czar" or head of hockey operations to the organization.

That's not good IMO b/c Pegula is not smart or savvy enough to not have one.

Well there's your problem. I'm praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. At least he's real.

 

[DatGuy]

I know we all like to poop on risto, but I want him as my #3-4 D. His +\- would be so much better if he didn’t go out of his way to make a hit / play the body. Staying in position would drastically reduce his minuses.

 

[slip]

I know we all like to poop on risto, but I want him as my #3-4 D. His +\- would be so much better if he didn’t go out of his way to make a hit / play the body. Staying in position would drastically reduce his minuses.

There is zero defensive depth in this organization. Trading Risto for forwards or futures is just dumb.

And let's get real about "Hockey IQ." There's no such f***ing thing as hockey IQ. There are good coaches with sound systems that leverage a player's strengths and minimize their weakness, and then there's what Phil Housley does.

 

[GellMann]

There is zero defensive depth in this organization. Trading Risto for forwards or futures is just dumb.

And let's get real about "Hockey IQ." There's no such ****ing thing as hockey IQ. There are good coaches with sound systems that leverage a player's strengths and minimize their weakness, and then there's what Phil Housley does.

This is a bad take. Phil is not the difference between Dahlin being an ice-tilting machine as an 18 year old and Risto choosing time and time again to forego open teammates for the other teams' defensemen waiting at center ice.

 

[Aladyyn]

We had Sam Reinhart and Evander Kane on the same team for 3 seasons. How can anyone say "hockey IQ doesn't exist" after witnessing that?

 

[Sabre Dance]

There is zero defensive depth in this organization. Trading Risto for forwards or futures is just dumb.

And let's get real about "Hockey IQ." There's no such ****ing thing as hockey IQ. There are good coaches with sound systems that leverage a player's strengths and minimize their weakness, and then there's what Phil Housley does.

Huh? You still have to apply what you've been coached to live situations on the ice.

 

[OkimLom]

There is zero defensive depth in this organization. Trading Risto for forwards or futures is just dumb.

And let's get real about "Hockey IQ." There's no such ****ing thing as hockey IQ. There are good coaches with sound systems that leverage a player's strengths and minimize their weakness, and then there's what Phil Housley does.

If I'm talking "Hockey IQ" I think it's good general term to use to describe the collection of traits from a hockey player and how they think through the game. When I would mention Hockey IQ I'm talking about traits such as:
- how well a player can read the gaps and determine how much time a player has before an opposing player closes in on them
- how well a player could determine the quickness of when a player they are taking a lane to be able to make a pass, and when to send a puck so that it hits a players tape instead of being in the feet of the player.
- how well the player determines the correct path to the puck to get there as quickly as possible or defend a player
- knowing how much time is on the clock or the situation on the ice (are we on the PP, have we pulled the goalie) are we ahead and should I dump for a line change or pass back into my zone
- if the player is capable of making the correct read how to defend a guy, whether that's a stick check, using your body to knock the player off the puck, and when to pass off a guy to your teammate to get back in positional play
- reading the play, knowing where the puck is to wind up and get there at the right time, or when the time is right to go in the soft area of the ice for a quality shot

There are plenty of others, but these are my major sticking points when determining if a player is a "high hockey IQ" or "low hockey IQ" player

 

[Baccus]

Apparently Wayne Gretzky was so good because of the system he played in.

 

[Reddawg]

Apparently Wayne Gretzky was so good because of the system he played in.

That's the immediate thought that came to my mind with this nonsense. Gretzky was well-known for thinking the game at a higher level than everyone and being able to visualize plays in his head so he could be 2-3 steps ahead of his opponents. That's the definition of Hockey IQ, which is absolutely a real thing that some players have and many, many players do not.

 

[slip]

We had Sam Reinhart and Evander Kane on the same team for 3 seasons. How can anyone say "hockey IQ doesn't exist" after witnessing that?

Yeah, but I think Kane's toughness quotient, or TQ, is off the charts relative to Reinhart. But they're about equal in the intangibles quotient (IQ) department.

In other words, we're trying to measure qualities which really can't be measured in a precise way. I can ascertain your strength by watching your bench and counting the reps, I can use a stop-watch to determine your speed, but intelligence? Like, are you good or not good at hockey? Really there's just good and bad players with strong and weak qualities and everything in between -- "he's got a great shot and is a decent passer but he's slow and is easily pushed off the puck." How much of any of that is due to physical ability and basic hockey intuition developed through practice over the years, and how much is an effect of the nebulous thing we refer to as hockey intelligence? I have zero f***ing clue, and neither does anyone else if they're honest.

Hey, beats discussing the game, right?

 

[slip]

That's the immediate thought that came to my mind with this nonsense. Gretzky was well-known for thinking the game at a higher level than everyone and being able to visualize plays in his head so he could be 2-3 steps ahead of his opponents. That's the definition of Hockey IQ, which is absolutely a real thing that some players have and many, many players do not.

Elite athletes don't "think" the game. The moment you stop to think in a real time game situation, you're done.

You know who invented "hockey IQ?" Hockey geeks who suck at real hockey.

 

[OkimLom]

Elite athletes don't "think" the game. The moment you stop to think in a real time game situation, you're done.

You know who invented "hockey IQ?" Hockey geeks who suck at real hockey.

 

[GellMann]

Elite athletes don't "think" the game. The moment you stop to think in a real time game situation, you're done.

You know who invented "hockey IQ?" Hockey geeks who suck at real hockey.

Hockey IQ refers to the inherent spatial awareness combined with quick-twitch decision making that elite players all have in common if they aren't complete and utter physical freaks. That you can't exactly quantify it (like literally anything else in hockey aside from the number of goals that go into the net and a couple other basic stats) doesn't mean it's not a real thing. It's absolutely a real thing. This take doesn't make you look edgy and independent, it's foolish.

 

[Gabrielor]

Elite athletes don't "think" the game. The moment you stop to think in a real time game situation, you're done.

You know who invented "hockey IQ?" Hockey geeks who suck at real hockey.

Hahahahahhaha

Of course they think the game. Hockey IQ is real and visible. Is this a troll?

 

[Reddawg]

Oh like Adam Oates knows more about hockey than an internet troll does...

/s obv

 

[OkimLom]

Oh like Adam Oates knows more about hockey than an internet troll does...

/s obv

NERD!!!

 

[Buffaloed]

There is zero defensive depth in this organization. Trading Risto for forwards or futures is just dumb.

And let's get real about "Hockey IQ." There's no such ****ing thing as hockey IQ. There are good coaches with sound systems that leverage a player's strengths and minimize their weakness, and then there's what Phil Housley does.

There are people who are mentally gifted in specific fields. Some are exceptionally gifted. I'm sure you're familiar with autistic savants who can perform complex mathematical calculations in their head or perform a musical piece after hearing it only once. Do they have a Math IQ or Music IQ? It stands to reason there are people who think hockey at a much higher level than others. That concept can be applied to just about any endeavor.

 

[slip]

There are people who are mentally gifted in specific fields. Some are exceptionally gifted. I'm sure you're familiar with autistic savants who can perform complex mathematical calculations in their head or perform a musical piece after hearing it only once. Do they have a Math IQ or Music IQ? I stands to reason there are people who think hockey at a much higher level than others. That concept can be applied to just about any endeavor.

What you call thinking I call intuition. It's more phyiscal/biological/environmental than intellectual. A carpenter hammering a nail does so effortlessly with speed an precision. The moment he "thinks" about the process he bangs his thumb. The game of hockey or sport in general is no different, IMO.

 

[Buffaloed]

What you call thinking I call intuition. It's more phyiscal/biological/environmental than intellectual. A carpenter hammering a nail does so effortlessly with speed an precision. The moment he "thinks" about the process he bangs his thumb. The game of hockey or sport in general is no different, IMO.

What do the letters IQ mean? What did Einstein say about intuition?

 

[slip]

What do the letters IQ mean? What did Einstein say about intuition?

I'm still trying to figure out what Oates said about intelligence. Too many appeals to authority!

But what did he say?

 

[GellMann]

What you call thinking I call intuition. It's more phyiscal/biological/environmental than intellectual. A carpenter hammering a nail does so effortlessly with speed an precision. The moment he "thinks" about the process he bangs his thumb. The game of hockey or sport in general is no different, IMO.

Hockey isn't reactionary. At least, the hockey dictated by the superstars of the era is not reactionary. They make active decisions to do what they do, at high speeds, and they're almost always the correct thing to do to open up space and create chances. That these decisions are far more natural and fluid and quick for stars than for plugs isn't proof that hockey IQ doesn't exist, it's literally the hockey IQ doing its thing.

"Hockey IQ" may be a bad name for it, but it's well-established as the word used to encompass this phenomenon.

 

[OkimLom]

What you call thinking I call intuition. It's more phyiscal/biological/environmental than intellectual. A carpenter hammering a nail does so effortlessly with speed an precision. The moment he "thinks" about the process he bangs his thumb. The game of hockey or sport in general is no different, IMO.

There may be some people that are naturally gifted at hammering nails. But for the most part, those that hammer "with precision so effortlessly" at some point had to be taught or teach themselves how to do so. They practiced more often, each time thinking to themselves how to perform this action. They did so, so often that it became second nature to them. But before they became experts at doing so they had to think of what they are doing.

With hockey, these are the best of the best in the world. There are those that may be naturally a great athlete, but long before we saw them play, they were taught at a young age and they had to think the game through. Through thinking in the beginning and being taught, they would build upon on the speed in which they could perform a task. They practiced so much, that they would form what some people might call "instincts" playing the game. These instincts could be naturally there, but most of the time, it's built from practicing and improving thanks to thinking about what needs to be done in a situation. These instincts take the place of "thinking" on the ice. The faster and higher quality of their teaching, which leads to quicker and better thinking, the better their instincts will be. These instincts are a part of ones' Hockey IQ. The better coaching these players receive in performing tasks, the better their "Hockey IQ" will be. But then there are those players who are capable of digesting what they are being taught quicker than their peers. Having that ability is also part of one's Hockey IQ. It's involved in the process of development. At the higher stages there is more refining ones abilities.

Hockey IQ is a label people place on trying to describe how one is moving among the ice outside of their physical ability to skate. What is entailed in what is known has Hockey IQ is very real. It can be measured, it can be tested.

 

[Buffaloed]

I'm still trying to figure out what Oates said about intelligence. Too many appeals to authority!

But what did he say?

I'm not even sure it was him. My memory is only semi-eidetic. It's a famous quote, "Intuition is the highest form of intelligence".
Intuition Is The Highest Form Of Intelligence