No NHL - Players say 'No Problem'

[CMUMike]

There is huges legal problems with replacement players. Specially with immigration and labor laws.

Also the NHL cap's objective is to reduce the salaries and not to support the expansion of the league like it was the case in 1987 for the NFL. The situation is more like the baseball one in 1994 and they have'nt been able to bring the scabs.

I don't doubt that it would be a painful process with an uncertain outcome. However, have you seen any evidence that the current CBA negotiations are any less troublesome?

 

[Chili]

I don't think every building is own by the NHL teams.

No, but the NHL owners hold the leases.

Also some owners could want to join the new league after a season or two instead of paying for empty arenas.

Maybe true, but players are looking at years of playing for peanuts in the hopes that eventually their new league will fly. And their would no jobs in this league for several hundred of their membership. They will be losing more money on top of what they have already lost. For many they will never recover what they have already given up. How many want to give up a lot more?

 

[Hockeyfan02]

It will work better in the NHL ! you know why...because there are a ton of feeder leagues in pro hockey. The NFL had at that time 2 feeders..NCAA/College and the CFL and look what happened.

Look at all of the non PA players in Europe who got bumped out of jobs..350 of them, are you telling me they won't be here in North America come September 15th. How about 50% + of the current PA'ers who are ready to tell Goodenow and the Elite's to shove it ? are you telling us they won't cross ?? How about AHL, CHL, ECHL lifers..are you telling me they won't cross.. money talks and BS walks

Uhhh where did I say it wouldnt work. In fact I made it pretty clear in my post that I wasnt saying that replacement players wouldn't work. Just saying there are better reasons than "It worked for the NFL so its gotta work for the NHL". And yes there will be players to cross, but there wont be any players from Europe. All the replacement players playing for the Canadian teams will have to be from Canada and the US teams will have to have American players. If I remember right from some of the other threads.

 

[s7ark]

Surely there would be a war. I assumed in my post that the players would win it.

During the war both would lose but a win after a season or 2 it COULD be extremelly good for the players. 100% of the revenus is better than 53%.

do they have a chance to win? I think yes. I don't think every building is own by the NHL teams. Also some owners could want to join the new league after a season or two instead of paying for empty arenas.

There is no interest in the minor leagues now, I don't think the fans would suddently be excited by those players only because they got NHL shirts.

First off, they wouldn't gett 100%, they would have to pay for arenas, marketing, uniforms, equipment, travel, hotels, etc. But just for arguement's sake lets say you're right and they get 100% ...

100% is not always better then 53%. 53% of 2.1 billion is 1.113 billion, given 82 games and 30 teams (2460 games) in the NHL that works out to $452,439 / game for the players. Assuming a 15 team league and 70 games for a season (both reasonable estimations for a startup league imho) that is 1050 games. So to equal the 1.113 billion offered in the NHL, they would have to take in 1.06 million / game. So that means assuming an arena of 15,000 fans, that would be an average price of $70.67 ticket price. And that is assuming they can sell 15,000 tickets every game.

You gonna pay that? of course not! So lets assume $50 average ticket price. At 15,000 fans ( a HUGE number of fans for a startup league to draw) that would be 787.5 million in revenues, or 37.5% of the 2.1 billion the NHL makes. So how again is that a better deal for the players?

Also I don't think you'd have owners crossing the line as that is the EXACT opposite of the intent of the league, which is to let the players be owners. Plus , remember that the the owners would be playing replacements, so the arenas wouldn't be dark.

 

[IceDragoon]

Personally, I would love for the pa to start it's own league.
That would give them 100% of the revenues to cover all expenses and then, divvy up.
iow - a healthy dose of reality.


edit - wtg, s7ark.

 

[mooseOAK*]

How dumb can they be?

We are all fans of our teams we aren't fans of personalities.

And part of the joy of watching hockey is the intensity and there won't be any in a league full of buddies playing out a string until the lockout gets resolved.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Uhhh where did I say it wouldnt work. In fact I made it pretty clear in my post that I wasnt saying that replacement players wouldn't work. Just saying there are better reasons than "It worked for the NFL so its gotta work for the NHL". And yes there will be players to cross, but there wont be any players from Europe. All the replacement players playing for the Canadian teams will have to be from Canada and the US teams will have to have American players. If I remember right from some of the other threads.

Your right unless they have work permits or visas..might be interesting to see how many of the players from europe are applying for temp work visas in Canada and the US.

 

[eye]

See below link. The vast majority of fans are not interested in watching a players league. In fact 80% or more of all fans in every poll I have read have no interest in the players = they just want the NHL to resume play.

Reading between the lines on Prongers comment I think what he was referring to is that legally the NHL might have to be renamed to NHL II or NAHL or something to that affect.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=131555

NHL players would be lucky if they made enough $$$ to pay for their disability insurance. I hope they enjoy their 14 hour bus rides and staying at the Comfort Inn. When are these guys going to realize that fans care more about the name on the front of the jersey and that in 3-5 years they will all be forgotten and replaced permanently. Have fun in Europe.

 

[nomorekids]

I personally feel comfort from the statements being made,

"There WILL be hockey in the fall, one way or another"

And I'll watch it, no matter who's playing.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Do you feel you are making your point better by using bold?

There.... that's better.

I was just seperating quotes from mine

 

[Tb0ne]

There is no way I will go and watch an NHLpa super league.. no way in hell.

NHL, AHL, SEL, Juniors or nothing.

 

[wazee]

1- The profit would go in their pockey instead of Wall-mart, Molson etc.

In the interest of accuracy...Walmart does not own a NHL team. Not in full. Not in part. No part of your NHL ticket money flows into Walmart.

The owners of two NHL teams, Bill Laurie, owner of the St. Louis Blues, and Stan Kroenke, owner of the Colorado Avalanche, are married to sisters who are Walmart heirs. Money flows downward from Walmart into the pockets of two NHL owners (or rather, their wives). It does not flow the other way.

Just wanted to clear that up...

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

I personally feel comfort from the statements being made,

"There WILL be hockey in the fall, one way or another"

And I'll watch it, no matter who's playing.

So will I, it will be refreshing and you know they'll have some new rules in place. The players will be going 100%, new characters. Me, I cheer for the Team and Jersey because its such a short time until one of your "favorite" players gets traded, cut , hurt and they are replaced. Thats what pro sports is.. here today gone tomorrow. The PA is being guided very poorly.

 

[RLC]

1- The profit would go in their pockey instead of Wall-mart, Molson etc.
2- They'd got the power so they could improve the league.
3- They could have a total revenu sharing system so the cap would be on based on total money instead of the poor teams money like the NHL offer. You have to understand that the big teams supported Bettman because they were garanteed GREAT profits with the system the NHL offers.
4- A linkage at 67%(NFL) or even more if the players owns the teams is very different from one at 53%(NHL offers)

SO, if I understand your point. Since the NHL admits to making 2.1 billion and the owners are all lieing and hiding tons of money, if the players would start their own league they players would have the oppertunity to lower ticket prices to 5 dollars per seat, and every kid under 16 would get a free ticket once a month, The players would be making so much money that they could put an end to world famine and fund all research in medical fields.

And if I may, presume that the players would do none of the above that they would be guilty of abandaning the crippled kids in their wheel chairs, abandaning hungry kids in africa and by extention support terrorism throughout the world, just like the current NHL ownes are doing right now.

 

[Icey]

"If they decide to use replacement players, that's their legal right. (But) I think it would be disastrous and devastating to the game."

Yeah, it really sent the NFL straight to hell.

It was if you were a player that crossed the line. Players that crossed the line have never been allowed to join the players union. Those players that crossed may have been given the opportunity to play a few games in the NFL, but it cut their professional career off at the knees because once the labor dispute was resolved, they were blacklisted. Don't you think that is something that every player will consider before they cross the line? Do you think the top AHL or ECHL players are going to risk that for a handful of NHL games? I just don't see the number of players crossing the line and signing up to play as most here think.

What happens when they can fill the rosters for 30 teams? What happens when the sponsors pull their money due to the uncertainty? Are you going to pay $50-75 to watch a bunch of NHL wannabe's?

 

[futurcorerock]

I dont buy the players saying "no problem", and neither should any of you. We're back to the days before the very first talks took place... posturing and the like. Round II of the talks will go down soon and we'll see where we end up, deal or not.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Added union boss Bob Goodenow: "If they decide to use replacement players, that's their legal right. (But) I think it would be disastrous and devastating to the game."



Isn't that an ironic statemnt coming from a man who is already destroying the game with his ridiculousness...

He was obviously referring to the game that he and the NHLPA has been playing, not the game of hockey . . . sheesh, read more closely man . . . I believe that off the record he added that it would also be very dangerous to his $3 million a year salary.

 

[dawgbone]

During the war both would lose but a win after a season or 2 it COULD be extremelly good for the players. 100% of the revenus is better than 53%.

Oh, so they are going to have zero expenses?

I find that tough to beleive.

do they have a chance to win? I think yes. I don't think every building is own by the NHL teams. Also some owners could want to join the new league after a season or two instead of paying for empty arenas.

Can you name a couple of major hockey markets that don't own their own arenas?

 

[Wetcoaster]

"If they decide to use replacement players, that's their legal right. (But) I think it would be disastrous and devastating to the game."

Yeah, it really sent the NFL straight to hell.

It did for the owners.

The players won free agency, ended the Rozelle Rule and the owners had to pay $195 million to settle the outstanding antitrust suits with the players. Whereupon the NFLPA reconstituted and signed a new CBA.

 

[Wetcoaster]

link to above story

That's an interesting comment from Goodenow, acknowledging the legality of replacements. It broke the NFL ranks way back when, it would be interesting to see how it played out.

Of course its legal if the NHL declares an impasse.

However the problem is that they then have to get the impasse declaration by the NLRB and that is whole other problem as MLB discovered. If they lose then the players get to sue and the financial penalties can be horrendous according to former NLRB member John Raudabaugh who was interviewed recently on Fan 590.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Your right unless they have work permits or visas..might be interesting to see how many of the players from europe are applying for temp work visas in Canada and the US.

None.

They cannot get work visas to play in the NHL because there is a labour dispute ongoing and any existing NHL work visas are void.

 

[pei fan]

Goodenow certainly wouldn't want to be party to something that is disastrous and devastating to the game.

:lol :lol :lol
It's a good thing this is the internet cause there's no way you could pull that off
with a straight face.

 

[nomorekids]

None.

They cannot get work visas to play in the NHL because there is a labour dispute ongoing and any existing NHL work visas are void.

Hm, you sure have all the answers. It's strange that no one "in the business" has figured all of this out, because you, in your ubiquitous wisdom, have it all figured out. And that's a pretty damning case you have there, because while you've been a fanatical drum major in the NHLPA parade throughout all of this, I'm sure you're not letting any subjectivity creep into your arguments. They should just stop writing these stories and hinting at replacement players, because [email protected] has already debunked all of those hopes.

Hey, at least you'll be able to catch Seattle Canucks games on TV.

 

[kdb209]

It was if you were a player that crossed the line. Players that crossed the line have never been allowed to join the players union. Those players that crossed may have been given the opportunity to play a few games in the NFL, but it cut their professional career off at the knees because once the labor dispute was resolved, they were blacklisted.

I know this has been posted here before in several threads, but again ...

Yes it certainly hurt the careers (and HOF inductions) of Lawrence Taylor, Joe Montana, John Elway, and the other over 200 players who crossed. <insert smiles for the sarcasm impared>

Blackballing may have been true for the aborted attempt at replacement players in MLB, but certainly was not true for the NFL.

 

[nomorekids]

The MLB strike saw some scabs get some rough treatment.

the NFL line-crossing was so widespread that nothing could really be done after the first game or two. I have a feeling the NHL would see a lot more in common with the NFL than MLB.