No new proposal coming from NHL...

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by 417, Jan 25, 2005.

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  1. 417

    417 Registered User

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    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112558

    Sorry if this has been posted already...interesting twist here though...

    Supposedly, the time for bringing out new formal proposals has come and gone, this meeting on Wednesday is to bring forth new concepts and ideas...

    Which leads me to believe, and like I already suspected, that a proposal is already in place, just needs a bit more tweaking, that's why IMO, Linden came out positive the 1st day, but wasn't too pleased the 2nd day...I think they'll make a CBA stew if you will, take some stuff from the NHL's proposal, the players proposal and a combination of new ideas to get this deal done in the next little while
     
  2. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    If nothing else, it weakens the notion IMO that the NHL is simply jumping through the hoops it needs to for any hypothetical impasse declaration. For that they could simply submit another proposal with a hard cap, have the players wail and scream in their rejection of it, and batten down the hatches we go until next September.

    I have to believe that at least they have gotten to the stage where both sides are honestly trying to find some creative middle ground. They might not find it, but I'm still confident they will.

    I think it's also a sign of how late in the game this chess match really is. There simply isn't sufficient time to play proposal tag at this point. It's either a brainstormed solution, or no solution at all.
     
  3. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Or the owners are posturing reasonable to keep their product viable. Right now they are winning the perception war, and all the pressure in on the PA. If they show up and talk nice thoughts, the public reamins behind them. All the better when hockey returns. But make no mistake, if the owners were going to cave it would have happend already. They apparently will not compromise the central issue, a Cap, especially when they seem to be pretty close to getting what they want. So until the players cave, how does it hurt the owners to make nice at these mettings?
     
  4. Motown Beatdown

    Motown Beatdown Need a slump buster

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    There is really no need for a formal proposal. Once (if) they agree on the issues either side can put forth the proposal to be signed.
     
  5. CalgaryThrasher

    CalgaryThrasher Registered User

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    Exactly... there is no real deal to turn down. They will craft something.
     
  6. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Registered User

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    the only way they could make this work is go step by step together, agreeing on something small like a (maybe one side gives on a, so that they can have b), then agree on b. by the end of the day they have a paragraph they agree upon. they dont have enough time to do that for the whole thing, but it would be a concrete start if they dont have any framework yet.
     
  7. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    It's better off that neither side is presenting a proposal. When that happens there is no discussion. Best thing to do is sit at a table with nothing to just talk out each point and agree on as much as possible, and atleast it seems like that's what they are doing.
     
  8. NJD Jester

    NJD Jester Registered User

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    Geez, what happened to all of that humbling the union talk? This sounds like the NHL is going to make a dash towards the middle ground between the two parties and away from the hardline "cost certainty" mode it's taken during the lockout. While I think any agreement will obviously tip the scales in the owners' favor, it appears that we might be looking at a hybred deal that isn't the stubborn cap Bettman's been insisting on.

    Just my hunch...

    <JESTER>
     
  9. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy TRUST THE PROCESS

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    They are way beyond preparing new proposals.Both sides know what needs to be done for a new CBA

    It will be a soft cap within a hard cap

    As an example:$38 million soft cap with $44 million hard cap.100% tax on all dollars between $38-$44 million.If a team goes to $44 million,it's really $50 million with $6 million in tax
     
  10. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy TRUST THE PROCESS

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    The players would be accepting a cap system they screamed for a long time they would not accept under any circumstances.Even if the hard cap was $200 million,Robert Esche said the players would never accept it
     
  11. The players are broken, but the NHL is having difficulty putting the nail in the coffin because that idiot LInden wont shut up.

    The owners don't need to make a proposal they made the last one any way. Harley will share his thoughts and ideas and Trevor will probablly belive him because Harley is respected more then Gary Bettman. The players know they have lost, there just trying to get a few things before the sign the papers either this year or in 2 years when the cap number will be $5 million per team.
     
  12. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    On second thought this is probably even better than I thought. Any proposals at this point would simply be posturing for future legal battles and/or negotiations. With no negotiations happening, it is clear that each side is done getting their positions across and both sides are ready to compromise.
     
  13. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    Perhaps I'm giving the owners more credit than they deserve, and in fact that's quite likely because they're nothing if not shortsighted...but has anyone considered the possibility that the owners never wanted a hard cap in the first place? That the last 2-3 years of posturing and war chest compiling was nothing more than setting the table for obtaining a strong luxury tax that they couldn't get in '94?

    Negotiations are all about finding middle ground, and if you want a luxury tax and start off your dealings with that, that's not exactly middle ground is it? The players blurt out their 'tantamount to a cap' mantra, and owners would end up being lucky to get a weak luxury tax, assuming they got a tax at all.

    But if you start out with hard cap rhetoric and doom 'n gloom predictions for any other solution, let it go on for a few months, build up a war chest to give the impression you're in this for the long haul when in fact you have no intention of touching that money...when it gets to crunch time and both sides inevitably look for a middle ground solution, if the NHL suddenly proposes a soft cap/luxury tax hybrid suddenly that tax looks like a ritz cracker to a hunger strike activist for the players, doesn't it?

    It would be a novel way of getting a serious luxury tax/soft cap yet having the players walking away clicking their heels like they actually won something, wouldn't it?

    Perhaps the owners will wait until the next CBA war to go for that hard cap, do it a bit at a time.

    It's a lot easier to make a lasting dictatorship if you phase it in gradually, so that the masses don't even know it's happening. Or maybe I'm just got the tinfoil hat on again... ;)
     
  14. 417

    417 Registered User

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    Wow! interesting take, and the more you think about it, the more it makes sense, I wouldn't put it past the owners, if that's what they wanted to get, the way you described would be the perfect way to achieve that...


    Really good thinking on your part, kudos! :handclap:
     
  15. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    The owners could have a luxury tax right now, they could have had one last august. The players have always offered that. This is about a Cap, not posturing for something the owners already had from the beginning.
     
  16. THey want linkage anything after is negotiable. If they actually agree to linkage and a soft cap then all the other things will fall into place. They can make trades on each part we give you UFA at age 28/gaurnteed contracts and we get to take away arbitration.
     
  17. oil slick

    oil slick Registered User

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    To add to the conspiracy theory... it always struck me as odd that Bettman never dealt with the question of how revenue sharing would be accomplished. He always jsut said they would deal with it on their own. Of course, a very natural form of revenue sharing would be a luxury tax, so maybe that's what he had in mind.

    I for one think if there is a deal to be made, it will involve a stiff luxury tax from 35-45 (or 50) million, and then a hard cap.
     
  18. ti-vite

    ti-vite Registered User

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    Since when do we believe what they say to the media? So Daly says no new proposals...you guys believe him?
     
  19. Bill Daly is a very truthfull person, he has done nothing in this process that would make us think he is lying. Yeah maybe he does need to lay off the turtle wax on his head, but he has done a great job so far in keeping us informed.
     
  20. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    Yes, but as I recall the NHLPA's offer was rather a joke.

    If the owners want a STRONG luxury tax, do you think the players would simply capitulate and say "you want it? Sure, you got it!" if the owners started their negotiations out that way?
     
  21. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Isn't that bascially a hard cap, just playing with what the floor is, and playing with the numbers making it a higher hard Cap? Do you really think that at this point the players would accept a hard cap even if it was $50 million? And why would the owners if they were losing money if the Cap is over $35 - $38 million?
     
  22. Rageinthecage

    Rageinthecage Registered User

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    If Daly is in fact telling the truth about no formal proposal being drafted at present, that is quite good news.

    My pessimism about this last ditch attempt by the NHL at contacting the NHLPA about this meeting on Wed., was that the league would present an offer that simply covered their own asses for future impasse hearings. That is, offer just enough to qualify as bargaining in good faith (which neither side have really done yet to this point), but not enough to appease the players obviously. Since the clock is ticking on any possible season, this would have been the perfect time for the NHL to bring out their "official" last offer.

    Perhaps the NHL was actually telling the truth when they mentioned they had no intention of attempting to break the union. Or maybe I need to take off the rose coloured glasses...
     
  23. Sanderson

    Sanderson Registered User

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    Actually, both sides have bargained in good faith. You don't need to make concessions to achieve that.
     
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