No more trading 1st/2nd round picks/top prospects for rentals!

[JoeSakic13]

Championship Trades: A look at deadline moves made by Stanley Cup-winning clubs - TheHockeyNews

Great article here summing it up.

Seems to be pretty even split on how "all-in" you go at the deadline.

For every Nick Boynton for Future Considerations there's a Jeff Carter for Jack Johnson and a 1st-Rounder.

 

[raideralex99]

TB did nothing at the TDL and went out in 4 straight against CBJ, who went "all in" at the TDL. I don't think this is a particularly strong way of assessing the strategy overall. It's understandable that a contending team with a perceived deficit will try to strengthen in that area at the TDL. It's also understandable if teams like the Blues or Isles that are very uncertain about even making the playoffs don't trade futures for rentals.

I don't have any problems with pickups at the TDL just not giving away first round picks.

 

[Trinity]

Going for a rental was fine this year, as we had an overabundance of youthful prospects that haven't seen the ice yet.

TNSE 's goal is to do 2 things -

1) win the Cup

2) bring in as much money as possible to TNSE as possible - every home game in the playoffs brings in $ 2 mil per game.

If you make it to the Final and you have 4 rounds at 3 home games per round that's 3/ 4 = 12 games /2 mil = $ 24 million

TNSE -- could have sure used that money being a small market franchise. I can understand their reasoning here -makes cents $$

$ 24 mil pays a lot of signing bonuses, and other things.

Note--2 ways to look at this --the "fans side" and the "business side"

BUT -- now is the time to go back to the drafting table. ( no more rentals for awhile)

ALSO -- We may still sign Hayes -- but unlikely --to expensive $$$

Is that $2 million per game in profit or revenue?

 

[AlphaLackey]

2 years in a row we spent top assets on rentals and have nothing to show for it. Very unlikely Hayes is re-signed. While the Stastny trade last season was a great trade and Chevy did a good job with it, we are now in position that if we don't stop trading top assets for rentals we risk becoming the Rangers of the earlier part of the decade.

If the Jets at the deadline had stood pat or sold, we would be in no worse position playoffs wise and would still have our 1st. This barring a miracle did not look like our year and trying to force it through deadline moves was suboptimal. This exit would be so much easier to swallow if we had held on to that 1st round pick.

If Chevy thinks he needs a #2C or another D-man he should make moves in the summer to get long term solutions. No more wasting top-picks/prospects for 20-30 games of players. I will literally projectile vomit all the way from the west coast into the MTS Center if next season if the Jets 1st round pick shows up on the TSN "most likely to be traded" board or in trade speculation around the deadline.

Ah yes, the very same and exact "if we fail to win the Cup, every pick-for-asset trade we made was a failure" take I was expecting.

30 teams will not win the Cup this year. This includes many players who traded for rentals. "You failed to win a longshot, therefore and exactly and only this reason is why your choices were bad" is a horrific take.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Hayes was actually quite good as far as rentals go. But ya, I don't like the whole idea of it all. Keep your first round picks!

Hayes was about as good as Little was as #2 C. But we already had Little for 'free'. Hayes was moved to 4th line. Sorry, but as a rental that cost us a first rounder and Lemieux, that is not 'quite good'.

 

[AlphaLackey]

We did better than Tampa Bay. By the OP logic, Tampa Bay should never trade picks for assets again either. And when taking a premise to its logical conclusion yields a ridiculous result, well...

 

[KingBogo]

We did better than Tampa Bay. By the OP logic, Tampa Bay should never trade picks for assets again either. And when taking a premise to its logical conclusion yields a ridiculous result, well...

And if Columbus wins the cup, the message should be don't go into the TD half ass and instead mortgage as much of the future as you can for the here and now.

 

[JetsFan815]

Ah yes, the very same and exact "if we fail to win the Cup, every pick-for-asset trade we made was a failure" take I was expecting.

30 teams will not win the Cup this year. This includes many players who traded for rentals. "You failed to win a longshot, therefore and exactly and only this reason is why your choices were bad" is a horrific take.

That is not what I said. The night before the trade deadline, the Jets had underlying stats to equivalent to a lottery team for almost 2 months running, firmly in the bottom3 bottom 5 range and their #1 D-man had just gone out done out for the regular season. Those were not the conditions in which it was wise to spend big assets (and this is not just the benefit of hindsight, some of us said this at that time). The Jets situation is not similar to Vegas, San Jose and (if they had) even Calgary or many other contenders making a splash. It is also the cumulative burden of all these lost picks and prospects. That pick we spent on Hayes could have theoretically been used in a package to acquire a long term Trouba replacement.

 

[Guffman]

The Jets situation is not similar to Vegas, San Jose and (if they had) even Calgary or many other contenders making a splash.

With Vegas/San Jose, these teams were a coin flip to get out of the first round. Was it wise for them to spend assets?

Even with the underlying metrics of the Jets, based on the way they played against the Blues, it could have gone either way and with a decimated playoff pool, any team can get the cup.

Playing perpetual asset management and not juicing your line-up on occasion to take some enhanced shots at it will leave a team in perpetual mediocrity. Mathematically, being the sole survivor out of 31 teams is remote in any particular year. If you have the players to take a run at it, and the Jets did, juice that line-up.

 

[Channelcat]

Hayes was about as good as Little was as #2 C. But we already had Little for 'free'. Hayes was moved to 4th line. Sorry, but as a rental that cost us a first rounder and Lemieux, that is not 'quite good'.

In relative terms, yes he was good. I think expectations may have been too high. I'm not defending the move as rentals are almost always bad deals. I'm saying most of them are even worse.

 

[Eyeseeing]

It was clear this year that we didn't have a competitive team for a post season run. I was a vocal proponent of stand pat. You don't have to 'sell' just because you don't 'buy'. I was ok with relatively low cost acquisitions of Beaulieu and Kiselevich due to Morrissey's injury. The biggest overpay which will have lasting damaging impact was Hayes. The real laugher was Hendricks and in retrospect represented a huge red flag for the status of the motivation of this team and the attitude in the room. I recall hearing the announcement on 1290. I forget who announced it, but there was a long pause - dead air - as the other announcers tried to process what they had just heard. One of them asked if it was serious or a joke. In the end it was serious - a seriously bad joke.

Was it really clear with Cheveldayoff and ownership?

 

[Eyeseeing]

These two season where the perfect time to take a chance and go for imo. Worked well with Stastny and not so much with Hayes. Next season I'd stand pat for any 1st round picks and still use late rounds to shore up holes if a good opportunity presents itself.

Did we give Hayes an opportunity to succeed?
Linemates, ice time ?

 

[DashingDane]

Did we give Hayes an opportunity to succeed?
Linemates, ice time ?

That’s good points. I’d say no and no

 

[BigZ65]

Hayes was actually quite good as far as rentals go. But ya, I don't like the whole idea of it all. Keep your first round picks!

Hayes really demonstrated the problem with rentals. Even if you acquire a decent player he might not be able to fit into your roster in a quarter of a season. If anything I wish the Jets were more aggressive on someone like Muzzin that would have filled a much bigger need and upgraded our 2nd pair next season too.

You can't continually rely on the deadline to fill major holes in the roster though, which for the Jets is middle 6 C and top 4 D. Chevy needs to get this done in the summer.

 

[Channelcat]

Hayes really demonstrated the problem with rentals. Even if you acquire a decent player he might not be able to fit into your roster in a quarter of a season. If anything I wish the Jets were more aggressive on someone like Muzzin that would have filled a much bigger need and upgraded our 2nd pair next season too.

You can't continually rely on the deadline to fill major holes in the roster though, which for the Jets is middle 6 C and top 4 D. Chevy needs to get this done in the summer.

Muzzin was a major coup for Dubas. I suspect a bunch of teams were very disappointed.

 

[AlphaLackey]

That is not what I said. The night before the trade deadline, the Jets had underlying stats to equivalent to a lottery team for almost 2 months running, firmly in the bottom3 bottom 5 range and their #1 D-man had just gone out done out for the regular season. Those were not the conditions in which it was wise to spend big assets (and this is not just the benefit of hindsight, some of us said this at that time). The Jets situation is not similar to Vegas, San Jose and (if they had) even Calgary or many other contenders making a splash. It is also the cumulative burden of all these lost picks and prospects. That pick we spent on Hayes could have theoretically been used in a package to acquire a long term Trouba replacement.

But those underlying stats when we had both Byfuglien and Morrissey in the lineup were far better, and we were going to have both of them in the lineup for game 1.

 

[BigZ65]

But those underlying stats when we had both Byfuglien and Morrissey in the lineup were far better, and we were going to have both of them in the lineup for game 1.

In name only. Both those guys were severely compromised returning from injury and that has to factor in.

 

[JetsFan815]

With Vegas/San Jose, these teams were a coin flip to get out of the first round. Was it wise for them to spend assets?

Even with the underlying metrics of the Jets, based on the way they played against the Blues, it could have gone either way and with a decimated playoff pool, any team can get the cup.

Playing perpetual asset management and not juicing your line-up on occasion to take some enhanced shots at it will leave a team in perpetual mediocrity. Mathematically, being the sole survivor out of 31 teams is remote in any particular year. If you have the players to take a run at it, and the Jets did, juice that line-up.

Jets could just as easily have played a coin-flip series with the Blues without Hayes. Do you disagree?

The Jets should have saved their ammo for another season where they looked like last year's team to "juice up the lineup" as you said, instead of when they just looked like an OK to decent team at best.

Regardless now that we have spent big assets on two back to back deadlines, it is time to ease back. Here's my question- do you support the Jets going out and trading their 1st + a decent prospect at next year's deadline as well?

But those underlying stats when we had both Byfuglien and Morrissey in the lineup were far better, and we were going to have both of them in the lineup for game 1.

They were just OK with Buff/Morrissey out and Morrissey was not 100% in the playoffs as admitted by by Morrissey himself.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Regardless now that we have spent big assets on two back to back deadlines, it is time to ease back. Here's my question- do you support the Jets going out and trading their 1st + a decent prospect at next year's deadline as well?

Won't know until it's closer to the deadline. The value of getting the 16th ticket to the dance is worth so much more than finishing 17th.

They were just OK with Buff/Morrissey out and Morrissey was not 100% in the playoffs as admitted by by Morrissey himself.

Yes, our biggest weakness was "just okay" with Buff and Morrissey in, and our other strengths were still very strong without them (power play, goaltending).

 

[Tommigun]

I tend to agree with the sentiment. I can understand why the Jets went for it with rentals the past couple of seasons, but I think they now need to start replenishing the prospect pool for the next wave in 5-7 years from now.

My guess is that they might start that process as early as this draft by moving Trouba for a 1st round pick (and perhaps more), and Perreault for something in the round 3-5 area.

I just don’t get the math. We gave a first + one of our best prospects for a few weeks of Hayes, but we’ll get back roughly the same for a year of Trouba?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

And if you look at our playoff performance, our number 2 centre was never the issue. Hell the guy we acquired to be the number 2 C, was moved to number 4 being replaced with our existing number 2. The guy he was supposed to replace.

Our playoff weakness / no shows were wingers - start with Ehlers, Roslo, Perreault.

Please remember for next year.

 

[Guffman]

Jets could just as easily have played a coin-flip series with the Blues without Hayes. Do you disagree?

I’ll arbitrarily say that Hayes would contribute a 5% increase (or whatever increase) in us winning a particular series plus adds insurance if we did get an injury to the centre position.

If we didn’t trade for Hayes, could we have beat St Louis? Yes. Could we then go on to beat other teams? Yes. He just adds a bit to the likelihood.

do you support the Jets going out and trading their 1st + a decent prospect at next year's deadline as well?

It’s premature to make that call. Contracts need to be signed, players traded, assets acquired, team assessment needs to be made closer to the TDL. After all is said and done, do we still have a positional weakness that needs to be shored up for a run?

Not a discussion for now at all. It’s a 2020 discussion.

 

[jetsforever]

Maybe we can still re-sign Hayes, in which case this trade was fine

 

[TheJadePipe]

2 years in a row we spent top assets on rentals and have nothing to show for it. Very unlikely Hayes is re-signed. While the Stastny trade last season was a great trade and Chevy did a good job with it, we are now in position that if we don't stop trading top assets for rentals we risk becoming the Rangers of the earlier part of the decade.

If the Jets at the deadline had stood pat or sold, we would be in no worse position playoffs wise and would still have our 1st. This barring a miracle did not look like our year and trying to force it through deadline moves was suboptimal. This exit would be so much easier to swallow if we had held on to that 1st round pick.

If Chevy thinks he needs a #2C or another D-man he should make moves in the summer to get long term solutions. No more wasting top-picks/prospects for 20-30 games of players. I will literally projectile vomit all the way from the west coast into the MTS Center if next season if the Jets 1st round pick shows up on the TSN "most likely to be traded" board or in trade speculation around the deadline.

Ahh hindsight

 

[Tommigun]

Maybe we can still re-sign Hayes, in which case this trade was fine

Don’t see where he’d fit in the lineup though. Either he or Little would become an insanely expensive 4th line centre, and he didn’t really look like an upgrade on Little at all.

I think that money is better spent on Trouba’s replacement.