Proposal: NJD/EDM

[McFlyingV]

NJ says no quite easily. We are very high on Zacha right now after his tremendous last 30 games of the season. (20 points)

NJ would be down for a McLeod-Puljujarvi swap though. Straight up, no picks.

Not a problem if you're not interested in moving Zacha. We on the other hand have zero interest in a Puljujarvi McLeod swap.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Jesse is dumber than a sack of hammers. He's got Yakupov level of hockey sense... seriously they're spitting images of each other in their ability to be in the worst place possible on the ice all the time.
Team structure etc are not concepts understood.

This is an incredibly odd comparison.

 

[thadd]

Why are we the ones paying more?

I was about to laugh and then I realized that NJ is giving up the 2nd and Edmonton the 3rd and now this proposal makes even less sense no NJ.

Would NJ even entertain Zacha + 3rd for Puljujarvi + 2nd?

 

[780il]

This makes no sense for NJ


A Puljujarvi for Mcleod 1 for 1 swap is ass for the Oilers.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

As mentioned in the previous thread, JP is a decent twenty game stretch from having exponentially more value than Zacha currently does on the open market.

I can see why NJ would balk at the offer straight up, but the upside of Puljujarvi is still higher than that of Zacha, which is why I don't see the 'not even close' side of it.

Honestly, looking at NJ's needs and their depth beyond the draft, I personally think this deal (straight up) would be a decent gamble for them. The Oilers would be settling on a third line center.

How is this the case? Zacha has shown far more in every department

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

As mentioned in the previous thread, JP is a decent twenty game stretch from having exponentially more value than Zacha currently does on the open market.

I can see why NJ would balk at the offer straight up, but the upside of Puljujarvi is still higher than that of Zacha, which is why I don't see the 'not even close' side of it.

Honestly, looking at NJ's needs and their depth beyond the draft, I personally think this deal (straight up) would be a decent gamble for them. The Oilers would be settling on a third line center.

Can you please explain what this is based on, exactly?

Even if all Zacha tops out as is a very good defensive 3C, thats WAY more than what JP is projected to be at the moment...

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Why are the Oilers doing that?

You don’t have to.

But I’m not adding to McLeod for Puljujarvi. If there isn’t a deal to be made, so be it.

 

[Scorcho]

Mcleod + Mueller +3rd for Pool Party and a 2nd

?

 

[AfroThunder396]

lol why on Earth are the Devils adding?

 

[DiscoBall]

Keep Pavel, he sure looked like he figured something out later in the season. He had 20 points in 30 games skating next to elite talent such as: the corpse of Drew Stafford, Kenny Agostino, a guy, some other guy.

 

[McSuper]

Pavel Zacha and a 2nd round pick for Jesse Puljujarrvi and a 3rd

Full disclosure I am not a fan of either way but went for the classic change of scenery trade.

Pulj has more offensive upside which warranted the higher pick going to the Oilers in my view but feel free to rip apart the trade as per usual

Problem is Zacha is the better player today . Potential is nice and all but at some point the player has to start showing that potential " Zacha has Puljujarvi hasn't " .

NJD would say no to this trade if it was straight up and you got them adding the better pick .

 

[belair]

Can you please explain what this is based on, exactly?

Even if all Zacha tops out as is a very good defensive 3C, thats WAY more than what JP is projected to be at the moment...

This is based on Puljujarvi's potential. Jesse Puljujarvi is a full year younger than Zacha and at the time of his draft had a significantly higher offensive upside. If it turns out he's simply a late bloomer and finds his game elsewhere, a trade like this does have the ability to turn sour quite quickly for Edmonton.

Unless Zacha has a Draisaitl-like emergence with one of NJ's centers and becomes a power winger, he's destined to be their third line center moving forward. And Travis Zajac is also there fighting for minutes.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Who cares where the player was drafted at this point? That has no bearing on what his future looks like in the NHL in 2019.

Zacha has shown way more than Poolparty has to date.

 

[belair]

Who cares where the player was drafted at this point? That has no bearing on what his future looks like in the NHL in 2019.

Zacha has shown way more than Poolparty has to date.

Over a thirty game stretch in his fourth NHL season.

If you shopped Zacha at this point last season, you're looking at a player in a similar position. A player who has failed to produce despite an abundance of opportunity to do so with quality linemates.

There's more to a trade than simply what a player has 'shown'.

That being said, yes, I do get why NJ doesn't make the deal today. Just pointing out that it isn't as black and white as it's being made out to be.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Over a thirty game stretch in his fourth NHL season.

If you shopped Zacha at this point last season, you're looking at a player in a similar position. A player who has failed to produce despite an abundance of opportunity to do so with quality linemates.

There's more to a trade than simply what a player has 'shown'.

That being said, yes, I do get why NJ doesn't make the deal today. Just pointing out that it isn't as black and white as it's being made out to be.

Whatever you say buddy.

JP has played 139 games already and IIRC is having a serious surgery this offseason. Where he was drafted three years ago should have no bearing on what he can become going forward. Zacha had 2/3 the points that JP has in his entire career this year alone, and he missed a month. Think about that.

 

[McFlyingV]

Whatever you say buddy.

JP has played 139 games already and IIRC is having a serious surgery this offseason. Where he was drafted three years ago should have no bearing on what he can become going forward. Zacha had 2/3 the points that JP has in his entire career this year alone, and he missed a month. Think about that.

His surgery was to correct his femoroacetabular impingement (FAI). It wasn't even an injury it's a birth deformity that started to show symptoms so they corrected it.

 

[McFlyingV]

Mcleod + Mueller +3rd for Pool Party and a 2nd

?

Mueller does nothing for us. McLeod doesn't do much either and is pretty redundant with his brother in the system and Marody likely knocking on the door for 3C duties soon. Take out the picks and I still wouldn't have any interest in that deal.

 

[belair]

Whatever you say buddy.

JP has played 139 games already and IIRC is having a serious surgery this offseason. Where he was drafted three years ago should have no bearing on what he can become going forward. Zacha had 2/3 the points that JP has in his entire career this year alone, and he missed a month. Think about that.

Pavel Zacha has never scored 30 points in a season. You need to see that it isn't that unlikely that Jesse Puljujarvi matches that production in an upswing in his career. He's 20 years old.

And I'm not even using his draft pedigree as my point. His upside is based on his physical ability, which is why he has that draft pedigree to begin with.

I personally don't see Pavel Zacha's production growing that substantially in New Jersey. I think that his offensive opportunity dries up if he doesn't immediately produce on one of those top two lines next season. He averaged 16 minutes a night this season. He probably won't next year.

 

[HBK27]

Over a thirty game stretch in his fourth NHL season.

If you shopped Zacha at this point last season, you're looking at a player in a similar position. A player who has failed to produce despite an abundance of opportunity to do so with quality linemates.

There's more to a trade than simply what a player has 'shown'.

That being said, yes, I do get why NJ doesn't make the deal today. Just pointing out that it isn't as black and white as it's being made out to be.

Fourth NHL season? C'mon now, Zacha played 1 game that "first" season you are counting.

He's had 3 NHL seasons and just turned 22 earlier this month. He's shown flashes throughout that time but has never played consistently good for a long stretch of time...until the end of this past season. Most NJ fans think it was more of a mental issue for Zacha and that he was putting too much pressure on himself. That seemed to change in the back half of the past season and adding Hughes will alleviate that even more as he can play further down in the lineup or possibly on the wing. Even while not producing as much as we wanted offensively, Zacha was still a key contributor defensively (including 3rd among F's in PK ice time for the 4th best PK in the league on a team with awful 1H goaltending and tons of injuries) and plays a more valuable position. Both players have been in the league for the past 3 seasons and were only 2 draft spots apart, so pre-draft potential means jack squat right now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Puljujarvi turns 21 in two weeks
Zacha turned 22 like 2 weeks ago

lets not act like these players are that far apart in their careers. They are basically 1 year apart in age.

Also Zacha played ONE game in his "first season" so your'e really stretching it there.

 

[HBK27]

Pavel Zacha has never scored 30 points in a season. You need to see that it isn't that unlikely that Jesse Puljujarvi matches that production in an upswing in his career. He's 20 years old.

And I'm not even using his draft pedigree as my point. His upside is based on his physical ability, which is why he has that draft pedigree to begin with.

I personally don't see Pavel Zacha's production growing that substantially in New Jersey. I think that his offensive opportunity dries up if he doesn't immediately produce on one of those top two lines next season. He averaged 16 minutes a night this season. He probably won't next year.

Zacha was always seen as more of a project with immense physical ability. Funny how you see Puljujarvi increasing his production but not Zacha, despite Zacha actually doing so for a significant stretch to end the season.

 

[belair]

Fourth NHL season? C'mon now, Zacha played 1 game that "first" season you are counting.

He's had 3 NHL seasons and just turned 22 earlier this month. He's shown flashes throughout that time but has never played consistently good for a long stretch of time...until the end of this past season. Most NJ fans think it was more of a mental issue for Zacha and that he was putting too much pressure on himself. That seemed to change in the back half of the past season and adding Hughes will alleviate that even more as he can play further down in the lineup or possibly on the wing. Even while not producing as much as we wanted offensively, Zacha was still a key contributor defensively (including 3rd among F's in PK ice time for the 4th best PK in the league on a team with awful 1H goaltending and tons of injuries) and plays a more valuable position. Both players have been in the league for the past 3 seasons and were only 2 draft spots apart, so pre-draft potential means jack squat right now.

Yes, my bad. It should read fourth season post-draft. Where he played really has no bearing on the intended point. In all honesty, Puljujarvi would have benefited from a similar path.

Puljujarvi turns 21 in two weeks
Zacha turned 22 like 2 weeks ago

lets not act like these players are that far apart in their careers. They are basically 1 year apart in age.

Also Zacha played ONE game in his "first season" so your'e really stretching it there.

I didn't say that they are. I said if you dial the clock back to this point last year, Pavel Zacha was worth jack squat. All it takes is a small stretch of games to redeem that value. And considering the peak of Zacha's offensive game is somewhere around 30 points at this point, it isn't a tall task for Puljujarvi to get there.

 

[belair]

Zacha was always seen as more of a project with immense physical ability. Funny how you see Puljujarvi increasing his production but not Zacha, despite Zacha actually doing so for a significant stretch to end the season.

I don't see Zacha doing it because I see his opportunity in New Jersey diminishing. He could earn some looks on a scoring wing, but there are players on New Jersey's roster who've 'shown more'.

I see what you see in Pavel Zacha. A responsible two way center who can be relied upon to penalty kill and has the ability to chip in offensively now and again. Martin Hanzal essentially. If he regresses next season, you've got Ryan Strome on your hands.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

McLeod + 2nd for Puljujarvi + NYI 3rd I would think about. Having both brothers in the same org could benefit both and Oilers need more future help at center than wing when it comes to what is in the pipeline.

I don’t see much upside in McLeod at all. He’s at best an average 3C at this level. Regardless of what you think about Puljujarvi his upside is better than McLeod’s.

 

[HBK27]

And considering the peak of Zacha's offensive game is somewhere around 30 points at this point, it isn't a tall task for Puljujarvi to get there.

Again, how do you keep assuming that Zacha "is what he is" at this point and Puljujarvi is the one that will keep getting better?!?

Zacha's season was basically split into two: 5 points in his first 31 games of the season versus 20 points in his final 30 games.

That is considerable improvement for a player that was still just 21 at the time. He was a 55 point player down the stretch of the season on an injury ravaged team. That's a big reason why NJ fans are optimistic on Zacha - not just because of pre-draft hype.