Proposal: NJ - CAR

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
15,080
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Zacha is only 23? Feels like he's been around for quite a while.

If the Canes were getting Zacha I'd assume it would be to play 3c in which case I'd want to move Jordan Staal. I'm not sure how easy that would be.

I'd be happy with Aho, Tro, Zacha, Geekie down the middle.
 

usekakkorightquinn

Registered User
Oct 18, 2019
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I think these two teams could be good trading partners, but not sure if either of these work as a basis?

Deal #1

Haydn Fleury (RFA)
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

Pavel Zacha (2.25)

Two former top 10 picks who haven't progressed as quickly as their peers.

Devils add a much needed young LD who I think should be able to play in their top 4 for the foreseeable future, and another draft pick.

Hurricanes clear their backlog of LD and add a big body center with a great release who is excellent on both special teams.

Deal #2

Jake Gardiner (4.05)
Nino Niederreiter (5.25)
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

Subban (9.0)

Devils add another draft pick and add a couple of veterans to surround their young core.

Hurricanes clear a few undesirable contracts and their LD backlog while picking up another RD to fill out their top 6 D core:

Slavin - Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Fleury - Subban

Who adds?


Subban is worthless. The only thing he wants to play with is his blonde. He gave up caring about hockey a long time ago.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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You really think Svechnikov and Hamilton will command that kind of coin? I was thinking Svechnikov would come in around $7.5M considering Aho's contract.

If Hamilton wants 8.75 I'd let him walk honestly.

I had Hamilton at roughly $8.25 mil. That's basically Carlson adjusted for inflation. It's hard to justify replacing him with a Barrie or Vatanen, unless his ask is out of control.

To offer Svechnikov $7.5 mil, they're either taking him to the earliest UFA date, which is a mistake, or saying that he's not as valuable as Aho is to the club. That's not a good message. The Aho negotiation was contentious, ending in embarrassment, and who knows what that means for the relationship between the two sides long-term. Svechnikov's should go smoother with the internal comparable on the books.
 

usekakkorightquinn

Registered User
Oct 18, 2019
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I think Svechnikov if he's smart plays out next year, has a huge year and asks for 10 years, 121 million. What Aho makes is irrelevant. Aho was stupid and signed a dumb deal.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
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Subban is worthless. The only thing he wants to play with is his blonde. He gave up caring about hockey a long time ago.

Do you ever do anything but bash the Devils?

Subban is certainly not worthless. He is no longer close to the Norris caliber player he was a few years ago, but he is still a top 4 DMan.

Also, if you followed him on social media and saw his workouts, I don't think you'd be saying that he doesn't care about hockey.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
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I think Svechnikov if he's smart plays out next year, has a huge year and asks for 10 years, 121 million. What Aho makes is irrelevant. Aho was stupid and signed a dumb deal.

where do I begin? :laugh:

1) players cannot sign a deal for longer than 8 years
2) you think Svech is going to ask for basically the same AAV as Connor McDavid?

sheesh.
 

usekakkorightquinn

Registered User
Oct 18, 2019
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503
You keep thinking lousy players on the Devils are worth something. Nobody wants Subban. He stinks and he's overpaid. Severson can't play defense. If you want something than offer somebody something of worth. Like a Bratt or Palmieri.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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Toronto, ON
I'll preface this by saying I still think Haydn Fleury has good potential, and is worth more than Pavel Zacha. But. The "logjam at D" argument has been used to explain his limited role for some time, and in the last year the Canes have brought in Edmundson, Skjei, Gardiner, and Vatanen. So it's also fair to say that Carolina seemed to prefer to maintain that logjam over giving him a larger role.

I understand the narrative of your post but there were circumstances behind each one of those defensemen joining the team that really had nothing to do will Fleurys play.

1. Edmundson was sent back in the Faulk deal as a necessity by STL. They needed to clear a roster spot and salary in order to take on Faulk.

2. Vatanen and Skjei were trade deadline adds because Hamilton and a Pesce were seriously injured and we needed to push for the playoffs. We needed all the dmen we could get just to ice a roster.

3. Gardiner is probably the only one where I guess you could say they wanted to give him playing time over Fleury. He was kind of tabbed as the Faulk replacement to play with Pesce. He had a rough start to the year and moved around the lineup. He improved a lot in the second half but Fleury took on a much bigger role and when Dougie and Pesce were injured he was basically our second best dman behind Slavin.

Fleury played really well in the play in series against NYR and was one of the best Canes against Boston although that was almost by default because most of the rest of the team was awful.

Anyway, I hope that puts it into context a bit.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
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You keep thinking lousy players on the Devils are worth something. Nobody wants Subban. He stinks and he's overpaid. Severson can't play defense. If you want something than offer somebody something of worth. Like a Bratt or Palmieri.
I didnt make this thread so not sure why you're telling me these things?

Your hatred for the Devils is hilarious
 

Nico Hischier

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Nov 22, 2017
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I liked the other thread where it was bean and nino for either palmeri or 20th overall

I’m very against trading zacha. That would be a bad move for NJ
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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I liked the other thread where it was bean and nino for either palmeri or 20th overall

I’m very against trading zacha. That would be a bad move for NJ
He isn’t a good player, it will have no impact on their present or future. Some teams might think he’s good because of his draft position though.
 

Nico Hischier

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
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He isn’t a good player, it will have no impact on their present or future. Some teams might think he’s good because of his draft position though.
I know you have a hatred for Zacha and McLeod but I respectfully disagree. I think he is a great player to have and we would be smart to run Nico, Jack, Pavel, Mikey down the middle for the next several years
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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NJ
I know you have a hatred for Zacha and McLeod but I respectfully disagree. I think he is a great player to have and we would be smart to run Nico, Jack, Pavel, Mikey down the middle for the next several years
Don’t hate either, they are just irrelevant. Even more so if we take a center with our top pick.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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You keep thinking lousy players on the Devils are worth something. Nobody wants Subban. He stinks and he's overpaid. Severson can't play defense. If you want something than offer somebody something of worth. Like a Bratt or Palmieri.
Are you always this abrasive and obnoxious? I’ve seen the same in a few threads.
 

Blackjack

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I understand the narrative of your post but there were circumstances behind each one of those defensemen joining the team that really had nothing to do will Fleurys play.

1. Edmundson was sent back in the Faulk deal as a necessity by STL. They needed to clear a roster spot and salary in order to take on Faulk.

2. Vatanen and Skjei were trade deadline adds because Hamilton and a Pesce were seriously injured and we needed to push for the playoffs. We needed all the dmen we could get just to ice a roster.

3. Gardiner is probably the only one where I guess you could say they wanted to give him playing time over Fleury. He was kind of tabbed as the Faulk replacement to play with Pesce. He had a rough start to the year and moved around the lineup. He improved a lot in the second half but Fleury took on a much bigger role and when Dougie and Pesce were injured he was basically our second best dman behind Slavin.

Fleury played really well in the play in series against NYR and was one of the best Canes against Boston although that was almost by default because most of the rest of the team was awful.

Anyway, I hope that puts it into context a bit.

That's fair. In my defense the trade deadline was seven years ago so I didn't remember how everything went down.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
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You keep thinking lousy players on the Devils are worth something. Nobody wants Subban. He stinks and he's overpaid. Severson can't play defense. If you want something than offer somebody something of worth. Like a Bratt or Palmieri.
You are allowed to beat the offer for Gardiner. Go ahead.
 
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Billdo

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Oct 28, 2008
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You keep thinking lousy players on the Devils are worth something. Nobody wants Subban. He stinks and he's overpaid. Severson can't play defense. If you want something than offer somebody something of worth. Like a Bratt or Palmieri.
Overpaid yes, offense dried up, sure, but Subban is still a serviceable defenseman who has more value to use with our complete and total lack of defenseman then other teams. It's Subban, Severson, probably Butcher and that's it. We need help in the biggest way and Subban won't return something better than what he brings to us IMO.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
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I must say I'm surprised at how many people dislike the first proposal but are okay with the oddly constructed second proposal. Seems both fanbases are happy to stay patient with their slowly developing young guys, which is a bit shocking considering how impatient HF tends to be with young players. Canes and Devils fans seem to be two of the more levelheaded HF fanbases, so maybe that's why?

Any final objections of the below before I host a conference call with Fitzgerald and Waddell?

Jake Gardiner
Nino Niederreiter
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

PK Subban
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Apr 27, 2005
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Overpaid yes, offense dried up, sure, but Subban is still a serviceable defenseman who has more value to use with our complete and total lack of defenseman then other teams. It's Subban, Severson, probably Butcher and that's it. We need help in the biggest way and Subban won't return something better than what he brings to us IMO.

Make no mistake, as a top pairing defenseman, Subban was awful.

But he would look so much better not having to be the guy. He'd come to Carolina as a #4 and I think he'd have a lot more success in that sort of role. His energy and physicality would align quite well with Hurricanes style.
 

Chan790

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Deal #1

Haydn Fleury (RFA)
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

Pavel Zacha (2.25)

Deal #2

Jake Gardiner (4.05)
Nino Niederreiter (5.25)
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

Subban (9.0)

Deal #1: I'm not terribly interested in Zacha. I don't really see what he brings that the Canes don't already have. He doesn't bring enough offense to fill the Canes top-6 hole on the wing. (Despite some impatience on the part of some of my fellow Canes fans, we really don't need more centers, per se...we have a surplus and a great pipeline...we need a top-6 forward, at any position, for next season, that we can acquire without creating another hole.) and we already have a handful of mid/bottom-6 forwards who don't really bring enough offensively to deserve a spot on a scoring line.

Conversely, I don't consider Fleury stagnated; I consider him well-marinated. He's already showing the benefits of the slow approach the Canes took with him and could be a solid top-4-quality defenseman as soon as next season. He's our LHD I'm second-least-interested in moving. (Bean is the trade chip I think goes out to acquire a interim 1A goalie, allowing us to keep pick #13.)

Something around Skjei would be more interesting. Skjei is better, but he's a lot more expensive.

Trade 1A: I'd rather keep Fleury and I'd rather use Bean to net a netminder, preserving our 1st if prices go to Crazytown. If someone would rather have NJ's late 1st rather than Beaner in that goalie trade...then I'm okay on a swap.

Trade #2: I'm opposed to tying up any more cap on our blue line. We're already unbalanced towards the defense. So, not really interested in Subban. I think Gards rebounds a bit this season and we're able to deal him down the road for a value return. I'd be willing to pay someone to take NN, but not take back a lot of cap.
 

SJinNewJersey

Every single one of us, the devil inside
Dec 21, 2017
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New Jersey
I must say I'm surprised at how many people dislike the first proposal but are okay with the oddly constructed second proposal. Seems both fanbases are happy to stay patient with their slowly developing young guys, which is a bit shocking considering how impatient HF tends to be with young players. Canes and Devils fans seem to be two of the more levelheaded HF fanbases, so maybe that's why?

Any final objections of the below before I host a conference call with Fitzgerald and Waddell?

Jake Gardiner
Nino Niederreiter
2020 3rd (Buffalo)

for

PK Subban
According to capfriendly Gardiner a Modified NTC to 7 teams. Might that be a stumbling block? He may not want to go from the Canes to the Devs.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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Toronto, ON
According to capfriendly Gardiner a Modified NTC to 7 teams. Might that be a stumbling block? He may not want to go from the Canes to the Devs.

We are all assuming Gardiner doesn’t want to go back to Canada so don’t think a trade to NJ would be an issue.

7 team NTC = 7 Canadian teams

While we’re throwing different ideas out there. What would NJ want for Gusev?
 

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