Proposal: NJ - Calgary (Gaudreau)

[MC Ride]

Nonsense!

5v5 points/60 in the last 2 years...
Right behind Malkin at number #24 we have...
HALL, TAYLOR Edmonton 2.15

then we drop to 20 spots to #44, behind Mike Ribeiro at #43, to get Johnny Gaudreau at 2.01...

Taylor Hall drives play. Gaudreau...not so much. So how exactly is he more effective? If you take the last 4 years Hall is number 3.

The more I look at the numbers the more I think Gaudreau and a 1st are not equal to Hall. I think I'd need Gaudreau, 2017 1st, + from Calgary to even consider trading Hall.

Stooooooooop poooooooosting maaaaaaaaaaaan

 

[Major Happy*]

Calgary isnt trading Gaudreau.

 

[135ace]

Stooooooooop poooooooosting maaaaaaaaaaaan

Mark my words- 4 years from now Taylor Hall will be scoring 40+ goals with the Devils and while Gaureau will be bought out after proving to be a flash in the pan and signing an albatross contact.

 

[FlamesFan 2313]

Mark my words- 4 years from now Taylor Hall will be scoring 40+ goals with the Devils and while Gaureau will be bought out after proving to be a flash in the pan and signing an albatross contact.

He might want to try hitting 30 first.

 

[moon*]

So, we can't compare rookies to rookies, it's about age, not experience, so Hall then is in his 3rd and 4th NHL seasons (which means nothing in comparisons, though he was already anointed an elite winger by Oiler fans at this point, so we should compare him to a rookie to make it fair?)
Hall 2012/13-2013/14 Age 21/22 : 31 EVG, 11 PPG 87 A, 130 PTS in 120 Games. Ranked 33rd overall in this time frame.

It doesn't matter how you compare Hall to Gaudreau, Gaudreau out produces him, even if Hall has a higher GPG, he's proven he can't stay healthy enough to produce all season. And before you say "Hall played a full season this year, and Johnny didn't!" you're right, but even then, Johnny out scored Hall, both in Goals, and Assists. So, still no rebuttal.

I think you have to be careful how you compare them.

Comparing a guys 22 year old season to another's 18 year old season doesn't make much sense for me when we can look back and see how almost every single player in the league is better at 22 than they are at 18 and at 18 pretty much every single player is still developing while many players are at or close to their peak at 22.

Comparisons of straight numbers versus numbers without taking other factors into consideration are almost always a terrible way to judge players anyways.

 

[wretched34]

Nonsense!

5v5 points/60 in the last 2 years...
Right behind Malkin at number #24 we have...
HALL, TAYLOR Edmonton 2.15

then we drop to 20 spots to #44, behind Mike Ribeiro at #43, to get Johnny Gaudreau at 2.01...

If you take the last 4 years Hall is number 3. Taylor Hall drives play. Gaudreau...not so much. So how exactly is he more effective? Again let's recap, Hall drives play with the likes of Crosby and Benn, Gaudreau on the other hand is worse than Mike Ribeiro. Who the **** would trade Hall for this Brian Gionta clone with 2 good seasons?

The more I look at the numbers the more I think Gaudreau and a 1st are not equal to Hall. I think I'd need Gaudreau, 2017 1st, + from Calgary to even consider trading Hall.

And this is why advanced stats are stupid.
Do you actually watch hockey, or just look at spreadsheets, and even if you do only look at spreadsheets, you're advanced stats ones are stupid. Because your argument, of Hall being 2.15 behind Malkin, and Gaudreau at 2.01 behind Ribiero, means nothing, when Gaudreaus 2.01 has has translated to him being 12th in overall scoring in that time frame, behinf Thornton, ahead of Giroux and Kopitar, and Stamkos, and Getzlaf and Malkin.... While Halls 2.15 has equated to him being ranked 78th overall in points in that time frame, behind guys like Giordano, Koivu, Marchand, Backes, Couture, and barely ahead of Palat, Galchenyuk, Hornqvist and Barrie.

I'll take Gaudreaus 142 points to Hall's 103 any day of the week when it comes to helping his team win.....

 

[wretched34]

I think you have to be careful how you compare them.

Comparing a guys 22 year old season to another's 18 year old season doesn't make much sense for me when we can look back and see how almost every single player in the league is better at 22 than they are at 18 and at 18 pretty much every single player is still developing while many players are at or close to their peak at 22.

Comparisons of straight numbers versus numbers without taking other factors into consideration are almost always a terrible way to judge players anyways.

and that's why I provided a comparison of Hall at 21/22 not just first 2 seasons vs first 2 seasons.
Both comparisons show Johnny is more productive.

 

[moon*]

and that's why I provided a comparison of Hall at 21/22 not just first 2 seasons vs first 2 seasons.
Both comparisons show Johnny is more productive.

Not really

 

[wretched34]

Not really

The secon part of the original post:

So, we can't compare rookies to rookies, it's about age, not experience, so Hall then is in his 3rd and 4th NHL seasons (which means nothing in comparisons, though he was already anointed an elite winger by Oiler fans at this point, so we should compare him to a rookie to make it fair?)
Hall 2012/13-2013/14 Age 21/22 : 31 EVG, 11 PPG 87 A, 130 PTS in 120 Games. Ranked 33rd overall in this time frame.

Johnny still had 12 more points when comparing them at ages 21 and 22.

 

[Rubi]

 

[DJJones]

Hall just got traded for a shut down defensemen with no offense.

That should about wrap this argument up

 

[moon*]

Hall just got traded for a shut down defensemen with no offense.

That should about wrap this argument up

That doesn't really tell us anything other than Chiarelli is an idiot.

 

[Rubi]

That doesn't really tell us anything other than Chiarelli is an idiot.

Someone else was offering better for Hall?

 

[DCDM]

No. Calgary will not trade Gaudreau. We don't even want Hall, and even if we do, we don't want him that bad.

 

[VoidCreature]

I think this proposal is ridiculous, but I kind of love that we now have a forward you can put in the same conversation as Johnny Hockey.

 

[moon*]

Someone else was offering better for Hall?

No idea but according to reports other GMs have said they would have yes.

 

[Major Happy*]

No idea but according to reports other GMs have said they would have yes.

They always say that and its usually BS.

 

[Rubi]

No idea but according to reports other GMs have said they would have yes.

Can we see these "reports"?

 

[moon*]

Not sure why you used quotes but sure:

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 7h7 hours ago
Team executive just told me he would've packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point.

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 8h8 hours ago
Team executive just now: "They should've called us -- we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall."

Those are two I saw today and remembered I can look for more and post them if that doesn't meet your "standards."

 

[Rubi]

Not sure why you used quotes but sure:

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 7h7 hours ago
Team executive just told me he would've packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point.

Travis Yost ‏@travisyost 8h8 hours ago
Team executive just now: "They should've called us -- we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall."

Those are two I saw today and remembered I can look for more and post them if that doesn't meet your "standards."

Thats two reports by the same guy (Yost) quoting a "team executive" not a GM. For all we know it could be the same "team executive". If it was a GM why didn't he say GM

 

[Volica]

Nah. Pass.

This is coming from a guy who really likes Hall, I once even had a brew with him; ne-ga-tive.

The one thing you folks from Jersey are going to learn really, really fast; Hall is about as gifted offensively as we've seen in the NHL when it comes to wingers, his IQ might be one of the worst in the league. The guy's career looks like it's going to run short the way he puts his head down and barges into the zone. Not a smart player by any means.

If we went back 20 years ago, we're talking about a Scotty Stevens victim 101.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Mark my words- 4 years from now Taylor Hall will be scoring 40+ goals with the Devils and while Gaureau will be bought out after proving to be a flash in the pan and signing an albatross contact.

Those silly words aren't even worth marking. Must kill you that Gaudreau has been proving you wrong at every turn and is already the better player than Hall.

 

[SuddenDeathOvertime]

Mark my words- 4 years from now Taylor Hall will be scoring 40+ goals with the Devils and while Gaureau will be bought out after proving to be a flash in the pan and signing an albatross contact.

Yea, the dude who has been one of the best offensive players in every league he's ever played in so far (including the NHL) is totally a flash in the pan.

 

[InfinityIggy]

All this says is Hall can't score on the Powerplay.

 

[blankall]

All this says is Hall can't score on the Powerplay.

Either that or Edmonton just got fleeced.