Prospect Info: Nils Lundkvist: Part III

[JohnC]

Hm, not sure about that. I think Robertson at least ranks somewhere in between like KAM and Ryan Graves.

When I say similar, I mostly mean they both profile as big, lanky guys that skate well and use their reach to separate guys from the puck. Neither are what I’d describe as physical, mean forces out there. If that makes sense?

On a comparative spectrum they’d both be closer to Marc Staal than Zdeno Chara.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Can I play? Circa 23, lol

Robertson-Fox
Miller-Lundkvist
Jones-Schneider
Lindgren

I doubt Lindgren is getting moved also. They just signed him to reasonable 3 year deal and he fits the "tough to play against" player they are looking for. They are moving D line assets this summer but I don't think its going to be a guy that some believe is captain material.

 

[Leetch3]

I doubt Lindgren is getting moved also. They just signed him to reasonable 3 year deal and he fits the "tough to play against" player they are looking for. They are moving D line assets this summer but I don't think its going to be a guy that some believe is captain material.

yeah lindgren is going nowhere soon with that new contract...with all the talk of changes the team needs following games against the isles and caps, we can't ignore that lindgren and trouba were out

 

[PuckLuck3043]

yeah lindgren is going nowhere soon with that new contract...with all the talk of changes the team needs following games against the isles and caps, we can't ignore that lindgren and trouba were out

Yes. Kreider also.

 

[Ola]

Yea, I just using it as an example. Those guys are going to cover a lot of passing lanes with their wing spans and deflect a lot of shot. The old Adage you can’t teach size certainly applies to Defenseman in the NHL still. Miller will never be as physical as lindgren even with 5 more inches and 30 pounds heavier. But it sure as hell helps with the wear and tear on your body. Being bigger is def better in that regard

Yeah, this is definitely the case. Think we have seen a rebound back towards this in the NHL too.

I am sure it’s something everyone that played recognize too, it’s a bitch to go up against a large defender.

 

[jay from jersey]

Because he hasn't played in the NHL yet, so we can pretend he is and then be upset when he overachieves as a 21-year old, but doesn't meet our fabricated degree of physicality.

He is more of a stay at home guy than K'Andre, but until these last few pages, I don't remember ever hearing about him being a physical force.

He’s not a huge hitter by any means. Just watching him I think he plays a more physical game then miller. I compare him to Staal as well. He was a force pre injury against Crosby and ovechkin all those years. The main similarities i see between Robertson and Staal are body type, they are both rangey guys, both positionally sound, both take the body when they need to. To me Robertson is going to be an excellent 1 on 1 guy and great on the penalty kill. A very good shutdown D. I think he’s going to be better at handling the puck then Staal as well. But pronger he is not. He’ll use his body well to wall off guys and cancel them against the boards but is not a huge open ice hitter like Schneider. I think he could still gain 10 to 15 pounds as well. We are very fortunate. I’m in no rush to trade any of them. But that time is rapidly approaching

 

[chosen]

Completely disagree. Being big means he has a larger wing-span/reach and can cover more area with his stick. Being big means more strength for board and net-front battles. Combined with Miller's skating, his size helps to make him effective. You say that mistakes were saved by his reach. A smaller player can't do that. He's a rookie playing 21+ minutes a night in the best league in the world. Mistakes are going to happen. He will learn from them.

And regarding physical play, there were times where he used his strength to just knock players off the puck. It's something he needs to do more consistently, yes, but expecting a 21 year old kid with 53 career games to be consistent at anything isn't very fair.

I said very clearly he might get better, but he was a defensive liability quite often.

Brady Skjel was big and a good skater. Didn't work out very well.

The point remains that no one can be certain that Miller is going to become a prime asset.

We can all hope he does, but that's about it.

 

[chosen]

Wow, it amazes me how quickly some posters are willing to write off Miller.

Step back a minute and consider what he accomplished this year. He was a regular top-4 D at only 21 years old, logging just over 21 minutes of ice team nightly.

Yes, he played somewhat protected minutes and Trouba covered up many of his mistakes. Yes, he was less physical then we had hoped and thought he would be, Yes, as the season went along he did not improve and actually seemed to retrogress a bit.

But, come on. It was like putting a gifted middle schooler into an AP high school calculus class.

What the future brings is uncertain. He may never grow into much more than he is now. Or, he may grow into his body, gain confidence in his physical skills, and become a legit top pair D.

But, just step back and enjoy the success he had and the possibilities for the future. I am certainly excited over the future potential of both Schneider and Robertson. But Miller has accomplished something that neither has done yet: he played an entire season as a regular NHL D, logging big minutes, proving to himself that he can play in the NHL, and giving hope for a better future.

Shiny new toy syndrome is now impacted a rookie D who, all things considered, had a fine season.

What I question most about Miller is that he so often made blatant, basic mistakes.

I've repeatedly said this could just be rookie stuff, but honestly Jones looked much smoother and more natural than Miller to me.

Yeah, it's a tiny sample, but he thought the game extremely quickly and always managed to make and complete that most important initial pass, and often while being hurried.

 

[chosen]

We have an emabarassment of riches.
From our small sample size (a few NCAA, a few NHL) , it seems Jones has that innate ability to get pucks on net from long.

Jones has an innate ability to do lots of good things.

 

[chosen]

I wouldn't worry about Miller yet. If i remember correctly Hedman said something like "it took me about 200 games to feel comfortable in the NHL"

Maybe it was in 31 thoughts after they won the cup ? Or some article with real quote. Can't find it now.

Miller could play 1,000 games and never approach the skill set of Hedman.

Miller will probably become a better defenseman, but those who believe it's a certain thing are way off. For every Hedman, there are lots that never improve all that much.

Not sure why some are offended by that line of thinking.

 

[Leetch3]

Miller could play 1,000 games and never approach the skill set of Hedman.

Miller will probably become a better defenseman, but those who believe it's a certain thing are way off. For every Hedman, there are lots that never improve all that much.

Not sure why some are offended by that line of thinking.

that wasn't even remotely the point. no one is saying that miller will be hedman. the point is that if someone as good as hedman need that much time to feel comfortable and established in the nhl, then maybe fans should have a bit more patience when a guy who isn't as good has played only 50 games.

 

[chosen]

I for example don't for a second think KAM would be soft in those situations if those were his instructions, nor is he soft once engaged in physical battles. But we must get more of it.

You're not saying Miller was told to not be physical in his own crease?

 

[chosen]

that wasn't even remotely the point. no one is saying that miller will be hedman. the point is that if someone as good as hedman need that much time to feel comfortable and established in the nhl, then maybe fans should have a bit more patience when a guy who isn't as good has played only 50 games.

I didn't say to not be patient with Miller.

All I maintain is that the patience won't necessarily result in the desired and anticipated product. Just because Hedman or anyone else followed a certain pattern doesn't mean that all will follow that path of improvement.

My issue with Miller is his propensity for the huge defensive error. In that way, he reminds me more of Skjel than someone like Hedman. I hope it doesn't play out like Skjel.

 

[charliemurphy]

I doubt Lindgren is getting moved also. They just signed him to reasonable 3 year deal and he fits the "tough to play against" player they are looking for. They are moving D line assets this summer but I don't think its going to be a guy that some believe is captain material.

Interesting. Some could argue that 3 year extension is primed up to be moved in a season or so or whenever the younger D enter the picture.
Captain material? Woah.

 

[eco's bones]

I suspect as K’Andre gets older he will use his size more effectively. That said I don’t think he’s ever going to be a big hitter. There is still significant room for improvement. One question I have is just how good his offense is going to be. He has a great shot but his puck moving instincts in the offensive zone need a lot of work.

Lundkvist remains the Rangers best defense prospect. Schneider is the most physical but he’s not a guy who is going to drop the gloves a lot. Jones is interesting. He’s a smallish D but has excellent skills and already seems to trust his own instincts and for his size he doesn’t mind playing physically. Robertson’s a big and steady presence.

 

[Ola]

You're not saying Miller was told to not be physical in his own crease?

Fair point of course, but I do think we could have focused more on it or in any event, it didn't get through to the players because we were too soft there.

 

[chosen]

Fair point of course, but I do think we could have focused more on it or in any event, it didn't get through to the players because we were too soft there.

The truth is that we don't know how much focus it got, but my guess is they all were told to keep the crease clear since defensemen since they first became defensemen have always been told that.

Knowing it and being able to do it are pretty different.

 

[NYSPORTS]

He has a great shot but his puck moving instincts in the offensive zone need a lot of work.

Lundkvist remains the Rangers best defense prospect.

is that why Miller went from forward to defense? Questionable hands? Nice shot but yikes sometimes. He’s certainly better than a Staal on the breakout pass which is a plus.

would be nice for a Beukeboom/Leetch across the board. Appears the Rangers have the Leetch type. Need some lockdown physical guys. Schneider fits the bill. Robertson is certainly big. Still, appears Dolan put this timeframe in win now mode and most of these names aren’t even here yet.

 

[Ola]

The truth is that we don't know how much focus it got, but my guess is they all were told to keep the crease clear since defensemen since they first became defensemen have always been told that.

Knowing it and being able to do it are pretty different.

For sure, just going by what I've seen and how I've seen defensemen in the past handles these things, I do think there is room for improvement here. But it is nothing more than that, a hunch or whatever it should be called.

 

[Rangeri]

I didn't say to not be patient with Miller.

All I maintain is that the patience won't necessarily result in the desired and anticipated product. Just because Hedman or anyone else followed a certain pattern doesn't mean that all will follow that path of improvement.

My issue with Miller is his propensity for the huge defensive error. In that way, he reminds me more of Skjel than someone like Hedman. I hope it doesn't play out like Skjel.

Yes I think people understand this, but its still good example, even if its little bit extreme one. Hedman was called soft, and he was in the trade block before his breaktrough. But big swede eventually made it with lot of effort and determination.

I have seen those defensive errors and many of them are bad, but still i'm not worried, not any single one of them has made me worry.

I might go little off topic here, but I just wanna say. He just started his life in NY where pressure is enormous and you as an young man have to start to take responsibility like an adult. Its hard man. Personal life stuff at that age when you are growing and totally new surroundings away from your family, or your previous situation where you were comfortable and used to things around you. It definitely affect you on the ice, if you still try to find your true place in the team, or in the city. You can't be fully comfortable in that situation and these things matter a lot, more to some than others. So that's why I won't categorize him to any label yet. "Propensity for the huge defensive errors", "Soft" because I think even he doesn't yet know what kind of player, or even what kind of man he will be. So how would I know? Coaches, teammates, friends, and family will help him along the way.

And not saying I'm against trading him, you do it for the right price. That's the game. But with all said, I'm impressed how his first season went. Many won't even do what he did, and I really believe he will be better. Might not, but I'm definitely comfortable giving him another season under new coach and one year more matured as a person.

Sorry for the off topic. I know this is the wrong thread.

 

[chosen]

Yes I think people understand this, but its still good example, even if its little bit extreme one. Hedman was called soft, and he was in the trade block before his breaktrough. But big swede eventually made it with lot of effort and determination.

I have seen those defensive errors and many of them are bad, but still i'm not worried, not any single one of them has made me worry.

I might go little off topic here, but I just wanna say. He just started his life in NY where pressure is enormous and you as an young man have to start to take responsibility like an adult. Its hard man. Personal life stuff at that age when you are growing and totally new surroundings away from your family, or your previous situation where you were comfortable and used to things around you. It definitely affect you on the ice, if you still try to find your true place in the team, or in the city. You can't be fully comfortable in that situation and these things matter a lot, more to some than others. So that's why I won't categorize him to any label yet. "Propensity for the huge defensive errors", "Soft" because I think even he doesn't yet know what kind of player, or even what kind of man he will be. So how would I know? Coaches, teammates, friends, and family will help him along the way.

And not saying I'm against trading him, you do it for the right price. That's the game. But with all said, I'm impressed how his first season went. Many won't even do what he did, and I really believe he will be better. Might not, but I'm definitely comfortable giving him another season under new coach and one year more matured as a person.

Sorry for the off topic. I know this is the wrong thread.

All fair points, but Jones is a bit younger - I think - and just looked much smoother and more effective to me.

I'm certain that if there was a way to bet on who would have a better career, Miller would be the big favorite, but if there was a way to bet Jones as a big underdog, I'd make an investment.

 

[Chimpradamus]

You know it's already off-season when I have to jump back three pages to even be able remotely close to understand what the heck you're talking about. This is ridiculous. I'll just ignore your endless armchair GM discussions about heaven and earth and say it'll be very interesting to watch Lundkvist in this upcoming World Championship. I think he will do well and he should be a lock on the national team.

I especially hope he's put out there during PP time, I think he can do wonders, he's a very interesting triggerman who also helps with puck distribution. Neither is he afraid to pinch in the offensive zone if he sees an opportunity - even in a counter attack - and his timing is really good. He's good on his skates, has a solid hockey IQ and he has a nasty shot.

For all of you wondering what place he has on the team, well, he's very young yet defensively responsible, solid in his skating and has a nasty shot. He just won a defenseman award never given to anyone as young as him, not even Hedman nor Dahlin. Any room for that kind of player on the roster? Apparently no. You schmucks. While I'm not saying he will be the next Hedman, I'm saying he just had a very dominant year, just now, that surpassed Hedman and Dahlin.

All of you propagating he should be dealt with not playing in New York, have you ever seen a second of his game before coming to this conclusion? I would think the answer is no. I don't think you realize how promising this guy is.


Especially notice his first goal in the SHL as a pup in 2017. He saw the opportunity, none of his teammates did. He frantically tapped his stick to get the puck, twice, as a pup rookie. But he was correct, the veterans were not. His desire to be involved is because he knows he can bring it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I know I'm pretty much on an island with this, but I'd deal Miller for the right personnel coming back. Being big matters if you're physical. Otherwise, it just means you're big.

Being big with a huge wingspan does matter, though, in general defensive positioning and stick play. That's a pretty huge positive for him over others. Agreed with your post, though, almost entirely. Well said. I'd deal Miller if the right return came around as well.

 

[Kodiak]

I know I'm pretty much on an island with this, but I'd deal Miller for the right personnel coming back. Being big matters if you're physical. Otherwise, it just means you're big.

Miller is not physical. Might change. Might not. Almost never does, though.

He also didn't bring nearly the offense as advertised. That could change.

He was a pretty consistent horror show in defensive mistakes, who sometimes was saved by his reach. At other times, not. That could change.

I would trade anyone if I thought it would help. No one is ever untouchable. Granted I can't come up with a deal for Fox that would be worth trading him.

Miller could certainly stand to use his size more effectively. There have been times where he's given opposing forwards a rough ride into the boards, and I think we'll see more of that as he matures. I don't think he'll ever have a mean streak, but not every player does. But the rest of your post I feel like is just chastising a rookie for making rookie mistakes.

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean I've been Miller's biggest fanboy for a few years now, but sure, in the right deal you move him. He has enormous potential but he's not some generational talent. Someone wants him as a main component of a deal for a young, stud C and you definitely consider it (depending on the other pieces).

I said it in another thread, I think he (and lots of college guys, honestly) are criticized a bit too harshly. He started off great--not perfect, but great when you look at the circumstances--dipped in play, picked it back up, and then fell off a bit of a cliff. He's a college guy, though, used to playing 40-ish games over a full season. Playing twice one weekend, one game the next, twice the next weekend, then having a weekend off, etc. The physical and mental grind of going from that type of schedule to an NHL schedule is a huge change for a guy, and forget about in a weird COVID year without a real ramp-up.

Seems like the final 15 games or so, we had a couple vocal posters who seemed to gleefully bash the kid for every mistake, which is a really weird thing to take pleasure in. Considering no one thought he'd even make the team, and then he's there playing 20+ minutes on the top pair, I'd say he blew past expectations and then some.