Player Discussion Nikolay Goldobin Pt. II

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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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If I was Goldobin, I wouldn't want anything to do with signing here.

The coach clearly didn't trust him and barely played him down the stretch last year, and that was before Miller and Ferland were acquired. Returning to this organization for another year would basically kill his career. He needs a fresh start somewhere else with a new coach.

I honestly have no idea why we gave him a QO.

But what are your options if you're Goldobin besides ask for a trade? He's coming off his ELC and has no arbitration rights. If he can't be moved, his best option is to come to camp and either earn a spot or get picked up by another team through waivers.

I actually think that offering Goldy a qualifying offer was closer to a no brainer. While the team has acquired Miller and to a lesser extent Ferland, Goldobin is a skilled player whose playmaking abilities we lack on the wing. Maybe Goldy takes a step forward in his development? If not, he makes an excellent depth player to have in Utica if he clears waivers.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
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If we want to dump the guy he should be stapled to Pettersson or Horvat and force fed prime PP time to boost his value.

This team isn't exactly going to be making a run for the cup, if you're going to be giving up on players you should at least do everything you can to boost their value before moving them. Even if it increases the value from nothing to a 5th round pick it's something and a complete no-brainer.
 
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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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If we want to dump the guy he should be stapled to Pettersson or Horvat and force fed prime PP time to boost his value.

This team isn't exactly going to be making a run for the cup, if you're going to be giving up on players you should at least do everything you can to boost their value before moving them. Even if it increases the value from nothing to a 5th round pick it's something and a complete no-brainer.

That assumes Goldy will continue to produce. Last season that wasn't the case.
 

Intangibos

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That assumes Goldy will continue to produce. Last season that wasn't the case.

Then so be it. If Goldobin playing with Pettersson is what costs us a playoff position then we have bigger problems. If he gets hot early move him around Christmas, if he sucks for the first half of the year and starts coming on around the deadline you may be able to get a team to bite taking a gamble on a cheap option to fit under the cap.

I don't think rebuilding teams should be losing assets for nothing regularly if they are more than a Pouliot-tier guy. Trade Gaunce for a 7th, staple Hutton to Tanev and get a 5th instead of letting him walk, move Roussel during a career year, get whatever you can for an aging guy like Sutter or even Beagle if he's willing to waive.

If the player isn't irreplaceable get what you can for them, and if you have an opportunity to boost their value beforehand take it. Losing 2 extra games a year due to inefficient line combinations in return for a couple assets is A-OK by me. Would you not take 2 losses in return for a 5th round pick?
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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Then so be it. If Goldobin playing with Pettersson is what costs us a playoff position then we have bigger problems.

Not really. The difference between making the playoffs and missing it can be a point.

If he gets hot early move him around Christmas, if he sucks for the first half of the year and starts coming on around the deadline you may be able to get a team to bite taking a gamble on a cheap option to fit under the cap.

I'm not so sure about that. Unless Goldy proves otherwise he's seen as a top 6 offensive producer or bust type of player. He's not worth much in trade unless he breaks out offensively, and even then it might take another season of good offensive production for teams to be value him highly. And if what you want is a 5th round pick, definitely not purposely raising his stock.

I don't think rebuilding teams should be losing assets for nothing regularly if they are more than a Pouliot-tier guy. Trade Gaunce for a 7th, staple Hutton to Tanev and get a 5th instead of letting him walk, move Roussel during a career year, get whatever you can for an aging guy like Sutter or even Beagle if he's willing to waive.

I agree.

If the player isn't irreplaceable get what you can for them, and if you have an opportunity to boost their value beforehand take it. Losing 2 extra games a year due to inefficient line combinations in return for a couple assets is A-OK by me. Would you not take 2 losses in return for a 5th round pick?

I'm not really sold on the idea that a team can easily raise a player's value. I know some Canucks fans believe you can because of what Gillis said about Hodgson. I think that GMs and scouts tend to have a longer view. Given Goldobin's past, I think it's going to take a lot for teams to be convinced that Goldy is for real.
 

bossram

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Sep 25, 2013
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Goldy and Petey were a pretty solid combination. Petey tailed off without him too...The Petterson + Boeser without Goldobin heatmap has a much lower offensive threat.

Goldobin's a solid possession player with potential for a breakout. He's not a guy we should be willing to just let his career die on the vine.

Screen Shot 2019-08-03 at 12.37.03 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-08-03 at 12.38.56 AM.png
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
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Not really. The difference between making the playoffs and missing it can be a point.



I'm not so sure about that. Unless Goldy proves otherwise he's seen as a top 6 offensive producer or bust type of player. He's not worth much in trade unless he breaks out offensively, and even then it might take another season of good offensive production for teams to be value him highly. And if what you want is a 5th round pick, definitely not purposely raising his stock.



I agree.



I'm not really sold on the idea that a team can easily raise a player's value. I know some Canucks fans believe you can because of what Gillis said about Hodgson. I think that GMs and scouts tend to have a longer view. Given Goldobin's past, I think it's going to take a lot for teams to be convinced that Goldy is for real.

There is no way favourable deployment does not help the value of players, it just isn't always enough. Bobby Orr couldn't raise Pouliot's value. There can also be an effect where players get underrated because of the shadow their partner casts. I actually think Tanev went from unsung hero to having folk songs sung about him to the point that Edler is underrated. For example over the past few years it isn't unheard of for a lot of people here talking about getting rid of Edler. Imagine.

Burrows is another example. I think Burrows, especially in 2010, played like a legitimate #1 RW or at least elite #2 despite people suggesting he's a 3rd liner that happens to have some chemistry. He scored 35 goals that year and 67 points. 4 of those goals and 2 assists were on the power play. 54 ES points is more than just getting carried.

Still on the other side linemates and deployment do have an effect on players. Bieksa is actually a good example, he didn't even need soft matchups, but playing with Hamhuis made him a much better player. Without that steady partner who was playing the best hockey of his career he would have no place on our top pairing and was a #4 at very best. Are we really sure Ferland hasn't had his value inflated due to his linemates? Are we sure Horvat isn't much better than we think and carrying his linemates? I'm not too sure and if either of those are the case then it does seem you can manipulate value.

Weber-Suter is kind of interesting because it seems like there was a combination of overrating Weber and underrating Suter at the same time like an elastic.
 

LordBacon

CEO of sh*tposting
Oct 31, 2017
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Goldy and Petey were a pretty solid combination. Petey tailed off without him too...The Petterson + Boeser without Goldobin heatmap has a much lower offensive threat.

Goldobin's a solid possession player with potential for a breakout. He's not a guy we should be willing to just let his career die on the vine.

View attachment 247903 View attachment 247905
Absolutely agree, travis green has the right to be hard on his players but forcing goldy to be a player that he isn’t is silly. If you don’t put him in a top6 role he’s not gonna succeed. Play him or trade him.
 

Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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Then so be it. If Goldobin playing with Pettersson is what costs us a playoff position then we have bigger problems. If he gets hot early move him around Christmas, if he sucks for the first half of the year and starts coming on around the deadline you may be able to get a team to bite taking a gamble on a cheap option to fit under the cap.

I don't think rebuilding teams should be losing assets for nothing regularly if they are more than a Pouliot-tier guy. Trade Gaunce for a 7th, staple Hutton to Tanev and get a 5th instead of letting him walk, move Roussel during a career year, get whatever you can for an aging guy like Sutter or even Beagle if he's willing to waive.

If the player isn't irreplaceable get what you can for them, and if you have an opportunity to boost their value beforehand take it. Losing 2 extra games a year due to inefficient line combinations in return for a couple assets is A-OK by me. Would you not take 2 losses in return for a 5th round pick?

"I don't think rebuilding teams should be losing assets for nothing regularly if they are more than a Pouliot-tier guy. Trade Gaunce for a 7th, staple Hutton to Tanev and get a 5th instead of letting him walk, move Roussel during a career year, get whatever you can for an aging guy like Sutter or even Beagle if he's willing to waive"

How can people watch this take place year after year and still insist that Benning is rebuilding. Getting great 1st picks (sometimes) because you were so bad and not doing any of the above does not define rebuilding. It's a losing battle to even try and get this point across to those who won't believe or those who get paid not to.
 

CherryToke

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Oct 18, 2008
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Goldy is one of those guys that is just too dumb to put things together. He's also too weak and soft but that can be overcome with intelligence which he clearly doesn't have.
 
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Hansen

tyler motte simp
Oct 12, 2011
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You look at the value that a guy like Burakovsky got, the team should have dealt him after his hot stretch with Petey and maybe got something useful back.

This team is so f***ing stupid when it comes to managing the value of their assets and selling high. Every time they decide that someone isnt in the plans they telegraph it to the entire league and then start to scratch or bench the player and jettison any value whatsoever they might have had. It drives me nuts
 

CherryToke

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Oct 18, 2008
26,735
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Coquitlam
Goldy and Petey were a pretty solid combination. Petey tailed off without him too...The Petterson + Boeser without Goldobin heatmap has a much lower offensive threat.

Goldobin's a solid possession player with potential for a breakout. He's not a guy we should be willing to just let his career die on the vine.

View attachment 247903 View attachment 247905

Petey tailed off for various reasons but not having a useless soft weiner on his wing wasn't one of them.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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You look at the value that a guy like Burakovsky got, the team should have dealt him after his hot stretch with Petey and maybe got something useful back.

This team is so ****ing stupid when it comes to managing the value of their assets and selling high. Every time they decide that someone isnt in the plans they telegraph it to the entire league and then start to scratch or bench the player and jettison any value whatsoever they might have had. It drives me nuts
Were they not trying to develop Goldobin..?...So what would have happened if they had traded Goldoblin after his little hot stretch with Petey, and he went and he went on to have an even hotter streak with another team.?....My guess is that you would be one of the first here to complain about the trade.
 

Hodgy

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Feb 23, 2012
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Were they not trying to develop Goldobin..?...So what would have happened if they had traded Goldoblin after his little hot stretch with Petey, and he went and he went on to have an even hotter streak with another team.?....My guess is that you would be one of the first here to complain about the trade.

Once it became clear that Travis Green didn’t trust him they should have continued to give him soft minutes with Pettersson and then traded him.
 

Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
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Petey tailed off for various reasons but not having a useless soft weiner on his wing wasn't one of them.

Goldobin is a better option than Leivo on Petey wing. Leivo and Petey had no chemistry at all. If you go by the numbers Petey was able to produce the best results playing with Goldobin. In term GF/GA. Petey had 20 GF 9 GA with Goldobin. The highest GF/GA difference including Boeser. Goldobin stopped playing Petey around the second half. It so happens Petey started to struggle at that time as well. Of course other factors like other team scouting him more and being tired played a big factor. But you can't ignore the facts that he does out up the best results with Goldobin.
 

Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
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Were they not trying to develop Goldobin..?...So what would have happened if they had traded Goldoblin after his little hot stretch with Petey, and he went and he went on to have an even hotter streak with another team.?....My guess is that you would be one of the first here to complain about the trade.

If that would have happened you would have been one of the first saying he wasnt developing here anyway and Benning did a great job recognizing this.
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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Go figure. A talented Russian player who actually desperately wants to stay in VanCity, and some fans are ready to back up the garbage truck and load Goldy on board.

I'd keep him around if only because it might make the transition easier for Podkolzin or even Tryamkin.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
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Go figure. A talented Russian player who actually desperately wants to stay in VanCity, and some fans are ready to back up the garbage truck and load Goldy on board.

I'd keep him around if only because it might make the transition easier for Podkolzin or even Tryamkin.

The team gave him a massive chance last year and he completely fell on his face. The coach clearly doesn’t trust him and he’s been replaced by Pearson/Ferland/Miller.

There is no way he’s still here 3 seasons from now if/when Podkolzin arrives.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
There is no way favourable deployment does not help the value of players, it just isn't always enough. Bobby Orr couldn't raise Pouliot's value. There can also be an effect where players get underrated because of the shadow their partner casts. I actually think Tanev went from unsung hero to having folk songs sung about him to the point that Edler is underrated. For example over the past few years it isn't unheard of for a lot of people here talking about getting rid of Edler. Imagine.

I think that if Schaller plays with Pettersson full time he can put up career highs over 82 games, but nobody is going trading for Schaller to be a top 6 option. Schaller's value will increase more if he plays 4th line minutes and puts up 10+ goals. Similarly, my point is that Goldy isn't an obscure player who came out of nowhere. GMs and scouts have typically watched him for years from juniors to the NHL. Goldy getting hot, scoring some goals, and picking up some assists (especially secondary assists) isn't going to magically raise Goldy's value enough to be worth stapling Goldy besides Pettersson for the purpose of raising his value. Now if Goldy was a potential core player and star in the making then it makes sense to keep gifting him prime minutes.

I think an argument can be made that Tanev and Edler aren't the best partners for each other but they were both good legitimate first pairing Dmen playing together.

Burrows is another example. I think Burrows, especially in 2010, played like a legitimate #1 RW or at least elite #2 despite people suggesting he's a 3rd liner that happens to have some chemistry. He scored 35 goals that year and 67 points. 4 of those goals and 2 assists were on the power play. 54 ES points is more than just getting carried.

But who here thought Burrows is a 30+ goal scorer away from the Sedins? Burrows has spent time away from the Sedins but I don't remember anyone here saying we should move Burrows away from the Sedins to spread the scoring.

Before Burrows got matched up with the Sedins he was on his way to being an elite 3rd line winger type if he wasn't already there. After the Sedins he proved that he could be a complimentary winger when playing with elite talent. Burrows defensive abilities makes him a guy that you can slot anywhere in your lineup. Take Kunitz. His value comes from his proven ability to play with elite talent. So you can be confident when you acquire him to play alongside your star C. That's simply not the case with Goldy and nothing Goldy can do next season changes that unless he's scoring 20+ 40+ alongside Sutter or Gaudette and improves defensively.

Ferland's value is inflated. But there are also numbers to backup his ability to play as a complimentary winger on a team's top line. He did that on Monahan and Aho's line. If Goldy shows an ability to produce offensively alongside different C's his value is going to increase. If it's only alongside Petey, not so much.
 
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