Player Discussion Nikolay Goldobin Pt. II

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JanBulisPiggyBack

Registered User
Dec 31, 2011
3,839
2,719
If Goldobin could just bury 1/4 of those grade A chances he has had he would be at 15 goals now instead of 6. This guy has either the worst luck or he chokes with the puck in a scoring position
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,034
9,951
Both Goldy and Jake could use a change of scenery.

Has either player progressed in their development between this season and last season?
 

Wo Yorfat

dumb person
Nov 7, 2016
2,961
3,924
Isn’t a guy I see much value in. If we can get a 2nd for him, great. I doubt we can though. Not the end of the world to keep him and give it another go next yr.

I get why green isn’t a fan. Lack of intensity and soft play can be contagious, gotta be better than goldy to get away with that.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,034
9,951
Isn’t a guy I see much value in. If we can get a 2nd for him, great. I doubt we can though. Not the end of the world to keep him and give it another go next yr.

I get why green isn’t a fan. Lack of intensity and soft play can be contagious, gotta be better than goldy to get away with that.

Lack of intensity and soft play with Petey working his tail off is inexcusable.

Even Granlund has picked up his play lately.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,613
3,190
Surrey, BC
Disagree. Expansion lowered his value + they moved him to protect Granlund lol. Should have moved him the following deadline, highly doubt his play falls off so hard/so fast if he stayed here vs going to San Jose.

The bolded is an assumption that one should not logically make, it's complete wishful thinking.

That said, I think Hansen's value was pretty high at the time he was trade: low 1st / high 2nd, which IMO was Goldobin's worth at the time, too.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,613
3,190
Surrey, BC
I wish I saw the talent that some do although I suspect that Goldobin supporters are bigger fans of the concept of Goldobin (highly skilled forward with some defensive issues) than the actual player (ultimately Kyle Wellwood without the sweet hands which gives you Linden Vey). I am all for giving the skilled guys lots of rope but I just don't see the high end skill with 77. Above average vision does not a highly skilled player make.

There's no doubt that Goldobin has above average playmaking ability. He has the ability to quickly and accurately find open players for quality shots.

Unfortunately, that's pretty much the only strength of offensive game (terrible shot, no power, etc.) and if he's going to be soft on the walls and turn the puck over on the opposing blue-line frequently, he can't be kept in the lineup. Earlier in the season he was making offensive plays on a regular basis so you could take the good with the bad, but for whatever reason those plays have disappeared.

Again, if management and coaching still have some hope for this player, put him with Pettersson because it's the only way his strength will be highlighted.
 

kanuck87

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
7,167
1,460
Issue with Goldobin is exact same with Leipsic. Guy looks like an elite talent when he has the space to skate around with the puck, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, he can't make a play in pressure situations/tight spaces to save his life.
 

Nomobo

Registered User
Feb 20, 2015
6,136
2,857
Victoria
You are wrong and you know it.

See. I too can use your special persuasion techniques.
Don’t really want to persuade you, just let you continue your dream where Goldobin is a good hockey player. Maybe you’ll wake up when he’s in the KHL.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,034
9,951
Issue with Goldobin is exact same with Leipsic. Guy looks like an elite talent when he has the space to skate around with the puck, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, he can't make a play in pressure situations/tight spaces to save his life.
Disagree.

I've seen him make some pretty quick passes in tight spaces.

What he can't do is drive play or QB plays.

Weird as it may sound, I think he overestimates his own hockey IQ/awareness.

Either he thinks he can do more than he can or he's being asked to do more than he can.

I still think he's an NHLer though; I just don't think Green is the right coach for him.
 

Ryp37

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
7,525
1,081
The bolded is an assumption that one should not logically make, it's complete wishful thinking.

That said, I think Hansen's value was pretty high at the time he was trade: low 1st / high 2nd, which IMO was Goldobin's worth at the time, too.

Not really. No one predicted Hansen falling off like that in San Jose. They could have also moved him after the expansion in the Summer, deadline wasn't only option.

I think the fact San Jose was willing to give up their first rounder in a homerun condition on the 4th shows they were willing to move it but Jim needed his age-gap project. Their first for Hansen would have been a hell of a lot better than Hansen for Goldobin + 4th. Their 1st ended up being 19th overall.
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,049
14,079
Not really understanding why Goldy is such a lightning rod in VanCity. He is what he is. A young player who has holes to fill out in his game, and if he doesn't figure it out won't likely be in the league that long.

Drafted by San Jose in the back half of the 2014 first round and traded by San Jose to the Canucks for what turned out to be an unsuccessful rental in Hansen. So the cost of acquiring was virtually nothing.

He's in a totally different category than either Virtanen or Juolevi, drafted sixth and fifth overall. And if Jimbo's latest interview with TSN means anything, the Canucks still believe in him and have no intention of trading him.

So he'll either work his butt off to correct his deficiencies or get passed by other prospects in the system as early as next season. Whatever.
 

cc

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
9,578
1,458
It looks to me like he puts in some effort now even if he still makes a lot of mistakes so its a small step in the right direction. I think it's worth it to be patient with him.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
I've been meaning to look at Goldobin's shot data for some time now.

So, first of all, he misses the net very consistently on 30% of his shot attempts:

SeasonShotsShots Missed
2015201616638%
2016201728932%
20172018962930%
201820191454430%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This rates him among the highest in the league this season:

PlayerShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1254435%
MARK BOROWIECKI1083835%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1294132%
NICK RITCHIE1233932%
PAR LINDHOLM1314131%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1454430%
JOHAN LARSSON1193529%
SHEA WEBER1985729%
NAZEM KADRI2928429%
MARK JANKOWSKI1333829%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So, what's the deal?

One thing that I notice is that very few of Goldobin's shots get blocked. He tends to get his shots through, and the list above changes if you remove blocked shots. I am also going to remove defenders who take a lot of point shots (more on that later):

PlayerUnblocked ShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1064442%
PAR LINDHOLM1014141%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1034140%
NICK RITCHIE1033938%
NAZEM KADRI2358436%
MARK JANKOWSKI1103835%
VINCENT TROCHECK1254334%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1284434%
COLIN WHITE1465034%
ALEX OVECHKIN35612134%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Interesting mix of players here. Goldy misses as often as Ovechkin does, but of course takes far, far fewer shots. So let's have a look at the distance where they are taking their shots.

upload_2019-2-21_12-15-55.png


I limited the above data to shots taken within the offensive zone, with a goalie in net. You can see that as expected, there is a stark increase in how often a player misses the net as they get further and further away, up until about 18 feet. Then it starts to level off, with all shots that are 20-50 feet out missing about 30% of the time.

OK, so what about Goldobin?

I had to break the distances into 5-foot groups in this case (e.g. collapsing 10-14 feet into one data point,) here is the NHL at each 5-foot group compared to Goldy:

upload_2019-2-22_10-58-5.png


So you can see that he actually is just like anyone else when within 10 feet of the net, but once he gets 10+ feet out, he starts missing his shots significantly more often than the typical player.

Maybe nothing too surprising here, but I thought some might enjoy seeing the data.
 

Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
5,948
3,850
I've been meaning to look at Goldobin's shot data for some time now.

So, first of all, he misses the net very consistently on 30% of his shot attempts:

SeasonShotsShots Missed
2015201616638%
2016201728932%
20172018962930%
201820191454430%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This rates him among the highest in the league this season:

PlayerShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1254435%
MARK BOROWIECKI1083835%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1294132%
NICK RITCHIE1233932%
PAR LINDHOLM1314131%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1454430%
JOHAN LARSSON1193529%
SHEA WEBER1985729%
NAZEM KADRI2928429%
MARK JANKOWSKI1333829%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So, what's the deal?

One thing that I notice is that very few of Goldobin's shots get blocked. He tends to get his shots through, and the list above changes if you remove blocked shots. I am also going to remove defenders who take a lot of point shots (more on that later):

PlayerUnblocked ShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1064442%
PAR LINDHOLM1014141%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1034140%
NICK RITCHIE1033938%
NAZEM KADRI2358436%
MARK JANKOWSKI1103835%
VINCENT TROCHECK1254334%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1284434%
COLIN WHITE1465034%
ALEX OVECHKIN35612134%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Interesting mix of players here. Goldy misses as often as Ovechkin does, but of course takes far, far fewer shots. So let's have a look at the distance where they are taking their shots.

View attachment 189685

I limited the above data to shots taken within the offensive zone, with a goalie in net. You can see that as expected, there is a stark increase in how often a player misses the net as they get further and further away, up until about 18 feet. Then it starts to level off, with all shots that are 20-50 feet out missing about 30% of the time.

OK, so what about Goldobin?

I had to break the distances into 5-foot groups in this case (e.g. collapsing 10-14 feet into one data point,) here is the NHL at each 5-foot group compared to Goldy:

View attachment 190089

So you can see that he actually is just like anyone else when within 10 feet of the net, but once he gets 10+ feet out, he starts missing his shots significantly more often than the typical player.

Maybe nothing too surprising here, but I thought some might enjoy seeing the data.

Highly interesting!
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,049
14,079
Goldy has been far and away the Canucks best forward the last three games. Seems to be rejuvenated after escaping the noose at the TDL.

So is this real? Has Goldy final turned a corner and is on his way to being a legit top-six winger? Or by the end of the season, are we going to be talking about the same old Goldy?
 

Nucker101

Foundational Poster
Apr 2, 2013
20,579
15,832
I've been meaning to look at Goldobin's shot data for some time now.

So, first of all, he misses the net very consistently on 30% of his shot attempts:

SeasonShotsShots Missed
2015201616638%
2016201728932%
20172018962930%
201820191454430%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This rates him among the highest in the league this season:

PlayerShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1254435%
MARK BOROWIECKI1083835%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1294132%
NICK RITCHIE1233932%
PAR LINDHOLM1314131%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1454430%
JOHAN LARSSON1193529%
SHEA WEBER1985729%
NAZEM KADRI2928429%
MARK JANKOWSKI1333829%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So, what's the deal?

One thing that I notice is that very few of Goldobin's shots get blocked. He tends to get his shots through, and the list above changes if you remove blocked shots. I am also going to remove defenders who take a lot of point shots (more on that later):

PlayerUnblocked ShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1064442%
PAR LINDHOLM1014141%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1034140%
NICK RITCHIE1033938%
NAZEM KADRI2358436%
MARK JANKOWSKI1103835%
VINCENT TROCHECK1254334%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1284434%
COLIN WHITE1465034%
ALEX OVECHKIN35612134%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Interesting mix of players here. Goldy misses as often as Ovechkin does, but of course takes far, far fewer shots. So let's have a look at the distance where they are taking their shots.

View attachment 189685

I limited the above data to shots taken within the offensive zone, with a goalie in net. You can see that as expected, there is a stark increase in how often a player misses the net as they get further and further away, up until about 18 feet. Then it starts to level off, with all shots that are 20-50 feet out missing about 30% of the time.

OK, so what about Goldobin?

I had to break the distances into 5-foot groups in this case (e.g. collapsing 10-14 feet into one data point,) here is the NHL at each 5-foot group compared to Goldy:

View attachment 190089

So you can see that he actually is just like anyone else when within 10 feet of the net, but once he gets 10+ feet out, he starts missing his shots significantly more often than the typical player.

Maybe nothing too surprising here, but I thought some might enjoy seeing the data.
This is great, thanks!

What’s crazy is that his sh% on SOG’s is already low to begin with as well, either he’s having terrible luck or is just a very poor finisher, or a little bit of both.
 

ayoshi

Registered User
Nov 3, 2010
785
268
Goldy definitely has flaws in his game, but people expecting a lot of goals out of him just aren't paying attention. He's a playmaker not a goal scorer. He's a good stickhandler and passer, with above average vision who is a bit prone to giveaways and has a questionable compete level on some nights.

But honestly, defensively Goldobin is no worse than Boeser.
 

Javaman

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
2,457
3,243
Vancouver
I've been meaning to look at Goldobin's shot data for some time now.

So, first of all, he misses the net very consistently on 30% of his shot attempts:

SeasonShotsShots Missed
2015201616638%
2016201728932%
20172018962930%
201820191454430%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
This rates him among the highest in the league this season:

PlayerShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1254435%
MARK BOROWIECKI1083835%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1294132%
NICK RITCHIE1233932%
PAR LINDHOLM1314131%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1454430%
JOHAN LARSSON1193529%
SHEA WEBER1985729%
NAZEM KADRI2928429%
MARK JANKOWSKI1333829%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So, what's the deal?

One thing that I notice is that very few of Goldobin's shots get blocked. He tends to get his shots through, and the list above changes if you remove blocked shots. I am also going to remove defenders who take a lot of point shots (more on that later):

PlayerUnblocked ShotsMissed
CONNOR BROWN1064442%
PAR LINDHOLM1014141%
CAL CLUTTERBUCK1034140%
NICK RITCHIE1033938%
NAZEM KADRI2358436%
MARK JANKOWSKI1103835%
VINCENT TROCHECK1254334%
NIKOLAY GOLDOBIN1284434%
COLIN WHITE1465034%
ALEX OVECHKIN35612134%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Interesting mix of players here. Goldy misses as often as Ovechkin does, but of course takes far, far fewer shots. So let's have a look at the distance where they are taking their shots.

View attachment 189685

I limited the above data to shots taken within the offensive zone, with a goalie in net. You can see that as expected, there is a stark increase in how often a player misses the net as they get further and further away, up until about 18 feet. Then it starts to level off, with all shots that are 20-50 feet out missing about 30% of the time.

OK, so what about Goldobin?

I had to break the distances into 5-foot groups in this case (e.g. collapsing 10-14 feet into one data point,) here is the NHL at each 5-foot group compared to Goldy:

View attachment 190089

So you can see that he actually is just like anyone else when within 10 feet of the net, but once he gets 10+ feet out, he starts missing his shots significantly more often than the typical player.

Maybe nothing too surprising here, but I thought some might enjoy seeing the data.

Maybe he just needs glasses....
 
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Gaunce4gm

Trusted Hockey Man
Dec 5, 2015
1,976
781
Victoria B.C.
Goldobin tends to shoot high and over the net a lot. I believe it was reported he was talked to about aiming lower. The following game he scored. Could be a change for the better if he can deliver.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
Goldobin tends to shoot high and over the net a lot. I believe it was reported he was talked to about aiming lower. The following game he scored. Could be a change for the better if he can deliver.

I have just recently collected some more data on this (in terms of where specifically he shoots from and also where the shots miss (wide vs. over))

I'll put something together soon.
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
I have just recently collected some more data on this (in terms of where specifically he shoots from and also where the shots miss (wide vs. over))

I'll put something together soon.

Thanks for your work Melvin. I guess Goldobin did always consider himself more of a playmaker.

What Goldobin needs to do is in practice, every time he misses the net, he cannot dangle his mouthpiece.
 
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