Value of: Niklas Hjalmarsson to Toronto.

qqaz

Think Happy Thoughts
Oct 25, 2018
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They need a minimum of 2 guys

I disagree. They could bring in 2 guys. That would be fine, or great even. But they only really need one. And if they bring in someone at a 5 million cap-hit then they absolutely can't afford anyone else.

If they add Hjalmarsson, then the right side is Hjammer, Holl, Lehtonen. Not fantastic. And no cap-space or flexibility left to change it.

Plus if Hjalmarsson walks after his 1 year, then the Leafs have watched Gardiner, Barrie, and then him walk in 3 sequential seasons. Bringing in someone on their last year is a big risk. It's been suggested multiple times that Dubas wants someone with term.

I'd rather take my chances in free agency and see if they can sign Tanev, Hamonic, Brodie, Vatanen, DeMello or someone else.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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I disagree. They could bring in 2 guys. That would be fine, or great even. But they only really need one. And if they bring in someone at a 5 million cap-hit then they absolutely can't afford anyone else.

If they add Hjalmarsson, then the right side is Hjammer, Holl, Lehtonen. Not fantastic. And no cap-space or flexibility left to change it.

Plus if Hjalmarsson walks after his 1 year, then the Leafs have watched Gardiner, Barrie, and then him walk in 3 sequential seasons. Bringing in someone on their last year is a big risk. It's been suggested multiple times that Dubas wants someone with term.

I'd rather take my chances in free agency and see if they can sign Tanev, Hamonic, Brodie, Vatanen, DeMello or someone else.

They need at least 2 guys, because Marincin CAN NOT be ONE injury away from playing again that's why we need at least 2 guys
 

qqaz

Think Happy Thoughts
Oct 25, 2018
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They need at least 2 guys, because Marincin CAN NOT be ONE injury away from playing again that's why we need at least 2 guys

Well that's just a matter of organizational depth. I won't derail the thread, but that isn't a legit worry.

Sandin and Liljigren should be above Marincin for a callup, if they're not on the roster already as a scratch or 3rd pair. Plus it doesn't take much to find borderline-NHL capable depth to stuff in the AHL like Marincin. If the organization is trying to push him out, they can. You could snag a UFA with a 2 way deal or a claim on waivers to do that job. But in all reality Marincin is not a bad depth defender. You could do worse with a call up who plays sheltered minutes.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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Well that's just a matter of organizational depth. I won't derail the thread, but that isn't a legit worry.

Sandin and Liljigren should be above Marincin for a callup, if they're not on the roster already as a scratch or 3rd pair. Plus it doesn't take much to find borderline-NHL capable depth to stuff in the AHL like Marincin. If the organization is trying to push him out, they can. You could snag a UFA with a 2 way deal or a claim on waivers to do that job. But in all reality Marincin is not a bad depth defender. You could do worse with a call up who plays sheltered minutes.

I think Sandin is on the roster as 3rd LD
 

LeafGrief

Shambles in my brain
Apr 10, 2015
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I could be wrong I would think Holl would be of interest because he is, younger, cheaper in both cap hit and cash and he is an NHL D man.

I am not saying 1 for 1 that's not happening but I'd suspect Holl would be part of it.
They need a minimum of 2 guys
Why would we get rid of Holl? If you're saying that we need to add a minimum of two guys you just made it three by getting rid of the 1 NHL-capable RHD we currently have in the deal. The reasons you listed are exactly why we'll keep the player, especially since his value could easily be replaced with draft picks or moderate prospects.

How about just Liljegren?
What sort of value are you putting on Liljegren? I don't think we want to trade him when Hjalmarsson only has one year left on the deal, but I also think that it's not a crazy ask. Are you still giving him first round pick value? A good 2nd? An adjacent asset, or a contract extension for Hjalmarsson would be ideal.

This is a good start. A more fair price would be Andy plus Sandin though.

This is a crazy ask. Sandin is practically untouchable.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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Why would we get rid of Holl? If you're saying that we need to add a minimum of two guys you just made it three by getting rid of the 1 NHL-capable RHD we currently have in the deal. The reasons you listed are exactly why we'll keep the player, especially since his value could easily be replaced with draft picks or moderate prospects.


What sort of value are you putting on Liljegren? I don't think we want to trade him when Hjalmarsson only has one year left on the deal, but I also think that it's not a crazy ask. Are you still giving him first round pick value? A good 2nd? An adjacent asset, or a contract extension for Hjalmarsson would be ideal.



This is a crazy ask. Sandin is practically untouchable.


Holl would be part of the deal for Hammer, you wouldn't be creating a hole, you'd be upgrading.

I'm not saying 1 for 1 just that he'd be part of a deal
 

kevsh

Registered User
Nov 28, 2018
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There should be zero interest from the Leafs side unless he signs an extension as part of the deal.

A rotating door of RD is not what the Leafs need, it's stability. Besides they aren't in a position to (nor do they need to) go all-in so 1-year rentals don't make sense.
 
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LeafGrief

Shambles in my brain
Apr 10, 2015
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Ottawa
Holl would be part of the deal for Hammer, you wouldn't be creating a hole, you'd be upgrading.

I'm not saying 1 for 1 just that he'd be part of a deal
In your own words, we need to add two guys. If we upgrade on the only guy we have right now, we still need to add two guys. Upgrades are nice, but trading Holl in the Hjalmarsson deal does not do anything to solve the problem (needing two more guys) that you identified.

Holl doesn't have a ton of value. We keep him because including him doesn't influence the trade much and is basically giving him away.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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There should be zero interest from the Leafs side unless he signs an extension as part of the deal.

A rotating door of RD is not what the Leafs need, it's stability. Besides they aren't in a position to (nor do they need to) go all-in so 1-year rentals don't make sense.

Hammer is not an all in move because he's not costing prime assets like Sandin Lilly, Robertson, the 2020 1st.

Toronto hasn't gone all in, not yet when they start acting like Pittsburgh THEN they will be all in.

That day is coming thanks to Dubas not Matthews and Marner Max term but it's not here yet
 

Boondock

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
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I would think Kuemper and Hammer for Andersen, Lilj, some cap in the form of a roster player (AJ?)
 

Boondock

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Feb 6, 2009
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Kuemper is returning at least a 1st round pick.
Maybe - I know that was said by Elliott Freidman, I could see a late 1st. Lilj is worth a late first imo, Andersen having $1million salary and his ability is worth an early 2nd at the least. AJ is probably worth 2+3.
 

ryno23

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
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Maybe - I know that was said by Elliott Freidman, I could see a late 1st. Lilj is worth a late first imo, Andersen having $1million salary and his ability is worth an early 2nd at the least. AJ is probably worth 2+3.

what does a late 1st mean? What team picking in the late 1st round needs a goalie? Generally if you are picking late in a round you have good goaltending.

Not specific to this post or poster but when people throw around a late 1st or early 2nd in proposals those are 2 way different things. Late 1st is generally a contender while an early 2nd is a lottery team.
 

Boondock

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
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what does a late 1st mean? What team picking in the late 1st round needs a goalie? Generally if you are picking late in a round you have good goaltending.

Not specific to this post or poster but when people throw around a late 1st or early 2nd in proposals those are 2 way different things. Late 1st is generally a contender while an early 2nd is a lottery team.
A late first is a value gauge. If you look at drafts after pick 15-20 the odds of finding a productive 200+ game NHL player decreases significantly. I don't care who has the picks or where they came from, I wouldn't value Lilj as a top 15 pick, but if its early 20's-31 there is a value attached to this pick in my mind equal to that of Lilj. Just for a little push back 4 of the last 10 picks in the first round this year (40% for those mathematicians out there) belong to non-playoff teams.
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
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Toronto
Decent if aging defender, but 5 million is too much for this player as far the Leafs are concerned.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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if thats the price i cant see any leaf fans agreeing.

I'd counter Andy + Dermott
As fans we can make suggestions back and forth. Imo the acquisition of Kuemper and Hjalmarsson will cost Andy (he has only one year, so lowered value fir a team giving up a similar goalie on a good contract with an extra year) and a top D prospect. That’s Sandin. Leafs should be in win now mode, while JT is still going good, and Matthews is still in town. Hjalmarsson will definitely contribute more right now than Sandin will.
 

hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
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Pickering, Ontario
As fans we can make suggestions back and forth. Imo the acquisition of Kuemper and Hjalmarsson will cost Andy (he has only one year, so lowered value fir a team giving up a similar goalie on a good contract with an extra year) and a top D prospect. That’s Sandin. Leafs should be in win now mode, while JT is still going good, and Matthews is still in town. Hjalmarsson will definitely contribute more right now than Sandin will.
Sandin would be on the table for Parayako, Hamilton, lindholm Or other similarly aged elite players.

Hjalmarsson is worse player than muzzin and Muzzin didnt bring back anything close to a sandin type prospect. Hjlamarsson has a worse contract than muzzin and shorter term he is also older.

Sandin would only be on the table for a deal for Chychruan for Arizona.

Hjalmarsson wont contribute much more than a guy like demelo/gudas/hamonic who leafs can target in UFA rather than giving up their best prospect.
 
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