Nikita Zaitsev isnt as bad as everyone thinks

[diceman934]

People who think he was good in his first year are stat only posters. He played on the PP and got some points and yet had his worse year defensively. We signed him on a long term deal because of his contract status.

He is what he is a D man with limited vision and hockey IQ who works hard and ices the puck far to many tines a game.

He has not improved his puck skills since arriving and still at 5 on 5 missed easy reads and rotations. On the PK he is fine as there are less rotations and they are limited to one side of the ice.

 

[justafan22]

no but his contract is awful

 

[Bluelines]

He seems to have a similar effect on opposing players as Naz, for whatever reason opposing teams don't like Z. He takes more abuse than almost any of our D, he gets run more than almost anyone on our team.

Not to use Jake as an escape goat but has Jake had a defender in the last 8 years that has looked like a good D-man? I'm sure its not easy to play with a guy (Jake) who has no clue what he is doing until he actually does it. Jake is so creative with the puck, do you step up, fall back? Personally I would rather have Z as my D partner than Jake. In the right situation he can be a good defender.

 

[zeke]

He is a fine #4 dman.

The people who think other teams' #4/5/6 dmen will be an upgrade over him are mistaken.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He’s overpaid by quite a bit

 

[SprDaVE]

He is a fine #4 dman.

The people who think other teams' #4/5/6 dmen will be an upgrade over him are mistaken.

Ehhh not sure about fine #4 defenseman. The Leafs could and should do a whole lot better with 4.5M.

 

[hamzarocks]

He is a worse defender than cody franson. The guy cant move the puck out of the zone(probably leads us in icings) , never gets shots through, has poor defensive zone coverage, not the best penalty killer, and doesnt use his skating to transition the puck. He is about 2 million overpaid and has 4 years too much term. Him and Gardiner has been responsible for the past couple of losses with their atrocious defensive play. Lou really did give a horrible contract to him after 1 year in the NHL.

 

[zeke]

Ehhh not sure about fine #4 defenseman. The Leafs could and should do a whole lot better with 4.5M.

well, I wouldn't want to pay $4.5m for a #4 dman regardless.

 

[Gallagbi]

He seems to have a similar effect on opposing players as Naz, for whatever reason opposing teams don't like Z. He takes more abuse than almost any of our D, he gets run more than almost anyone on our team.

Not to use Jake as an escape goat but has Jake had a defender in the last 8 years that has looked like a good D-man? I'm sure its not easy to play with a guy (Jake) who has no clue what he is doing until he actually does it. Jake is so creative with the puck, do you step up, fall back? Personally I would rather have Z as my D partner than Jake. In the right situation he can be a good defender.

Arguably every one of them has looked better with Jake than when they left/played with others.

He's also one of the easiest defensemen to play with on the team because of his skating. His brain farts are usually isolated, so they don't reflect poorly on his partner. Basically give him an out and if you're in trouble use him as a release valve. When he skates, support in a good defensive position.

Sadly Z doesn't see the ice well, so he's constantly passing to a covered partner/man when he should be skating or vice versa.

It's crazy the amount of times he puts his partner in a bad spot. He did this with Rielly too, so it isn't new.

 

[SprDaVE]

well, I wouldn't want to pay $4.5m for a #4 dman regardless.

There lies the big problem with Zaitsev. In a cap world, you have to be efficient with your cap space and he's by far the weaker producing defenseman we have.

 

[Bluelines]

Arguably every one of them has looked better with Jake than when they left/played with others.

He's also one of the easiest defensemen to play with on the team because of his skating. His brain farts are usually isolated, so they don't reflect poorly on his partner. Basically give him an out and if you're in trouble use him as a release valve. When he skates, support in a good defensive position.

Sadly Z doesn't see the ice well, so he's constantly passing to a covered partner/man when he should be skating or vice versa.

It's crazy the amount of times he puts his partner in a bad spot. He did this with Rielly too, so it isn't new.

One example, remember when Hainsey played with Jake? Yeah that was fun... change partners and poof , Hainsey's new partner is on pace to break team records and is in the running for the Calder and well Sideshow Jake, is still Sideshow Jake.

Is it possible you are remembering Jake's past partners wrong?

 

[Gallagbi]

One example, remember when Hainsey played with Jake? Yeah that was fun... change partners and poof , Hainsey's new partner is on pace to break team records and is in the running for the Calder and well Sideshow Jake, is still Sideshow Jake.

Is it possible you are remembering Jake's past partners wrong?

Hainsey and Jake were a fine pair. No doubt Hainsey allowed Rielly to play a more offense game. It's almost like Rielly not being shackled to Zaitsev helped.

Remember when Carrick looked like a potential top 4 d-man? Remember who he played with? How'd Franson look after he left. Jake has propped up a number of tweener NHLers to look like capable top 4 defensemen.

 

[Bluelines]

Hainsey and Jake were a fine pair. No doubt Hainsey allowed Rielly to play a more offense game. It's almost like Rielly not being shackled to Zaitsev helped.

Remember when Carrick looked like a potential top 4 d-man? Remember who he played with? How'd Franson look after he left. Jake has propped up a number of tweener NHLers to look like capable top 4 defensemen.

By Carrick and Franson looking good do you mean they both looked so good the Leafs dumped them as soon as they could? That kind of looking good? You'd think if a guy looked good on a team they would make an effort to keep him eh? Neither one of them stood out, for a guy as creative as Jake you'd think his partner would look like a rock star eh?

 

[Gallagbi]

By Carrick and Franson looking good do you mean they both looked so good the Leafs dumped them as soon as they could? That kind of looking good? You'd think if a guy looked good on a team they would make an effort to keep him eh? Neither one of them stood out, for a guy as creative as Jake you'd think his partner would look like a rock star eh?

Franson went up to the top pair and Carrick was dumped the season he didn't play much with Gardiner. Next season or two, away from Jake they were out the door. Doesn't seem like you think this is a coincidence, but you argue he didn't help them? Weird.

 

[Menzinger]

I wouldn't mind seeing him on the PP. Could use a bomb from the point, and I heard he has a good one. I just never seen it. Who knows maybe he can pick up a few points and make himself look more attractive to other GM's for a trade.

Whose he taking off though? Not Rielly or Gardiner, so with the Leafs only running with 1D on the PP he’s out of a spot there

 

[Bluelines]

Franson went up to the top pair and Carrick was dumped the season he didn't play much with Gardiner. Next season or two, away from Jake they were out the door. Doesn't seem like you think this is a coincidence, but you argue he didn't help them? Weird.

Isn't it logical that if those two played well with Jake, that they would have remained with Jake? Why has there been a constant revolving door of D-men playing with Jake? If Jake is valued as a Leaf, wouldn't he be signed to an extension by now?

Who were the Dmen on the Leafs the year you say he went to the top pair?

 

[SprDaVE]

Whose he taking off though? Not Rielly or Gardiner, so with the Leafs only running with 1D on the PP he’s out of a spot there

Anyone that watches Zaitsev and says "He's got a bomb of a shot" is really eye opening to what people see.

 

[Gallagbi]

Isn't it logical that if those two played well with Jake, that they would have remained with Jake? Why has there been a constant revolving door of D-men playing with Jake? If Jake is valued as a Leaf, wouldn't he be signed to an extension by now?

If you have an incredibly limited view of the game and don't understand looking promising/better doesn't mean perfect.

The team and D needed to get better, both cases the team tried to improve. Both cases led to a former partner of Gardiner's (who looked competent) getting the boot.

Who were the Dmen on the Leafs the year you say he went to the top pair?

Franson? It was the year they dumped Gunnar who was on their pair and brought in Polak.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Anyone that watches Zaitsev and says "He's got a bomb of a shot" is really eye opening to what people see.

He didn't even have that reputation in the KHL. His shot got good reviews because he was very good at getting shots through, something we've seen evaporate completely with the higher pace.

 

[Bluelines]

If you have an incredibly limited view of the game and don't understand looking promising/better doesn't mean perfect.

The team and D needed to get better, both cases the team tried to improve. Both cases led to a former partner of Gardiner's (who looked competent) getting the boot.


Franson? It was the year they dumped Gunnar who was on their pair and brought in Polak.

My view of the game is fine thanks. Truth is you have a warped view of reality/history.

You say Jake makes players better but those same players had zero value in the long term future of the Leafs. Kinda makes no sense, hey Jake just made this guy a #2 or #3 or #4 dman but we are going to look for a #2, #3 or #4 dman to improve our team.

Jake made Franson a top pairing dman? Odd take on reality, the Leafs played people in positions they should have never played in because they had no other options, it's like saying Kulie was a 1st line winger because he scored 30 goals.

I mean you can Gaslight all you want, doesn't change the fact Jake is a difficult guy to play with because of his unpredictability.

 

[Bluelines]

He didn't even have that reputation in the KHL. His shot got good reviews because he was very good at getting shots through, something we've seen evaporate completely with the higher pace.

Zaitsev is actually a really good d-man on the bigger ice, might be the pace, could just be his game does not translate to the NA ice.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Anyone that watches Zaitsev and says "He's got a bomb of a shot" is really eye opening to what people see.

he has an outstanding shot. don't worry about his 1 goal in the last 75 games, or 0 in his last 50

 

[Gallagbi]

My view of the game is fine thanks. Truth is you have a warped view of reality/history.

You say Jake makes players better but those same players had zero value in the long term future of the Leafs. Kinda makes no sense, hey Jake just made this guy a #2 or #3 or #4 dman but we are going to look for a #2, #3 or #4 dman to improve our team.

You mean the Leafs thinking Carrick is a top 6 due to his time with Jake, but then away from him he can't crack the roster? Almost like that was improved play with Gardiner. Franson looks like a potential top pair playing with Jake, then is out of the league 2-3 years later.

Jake made Franson a top pairing dman? Odd take on reality, the Leafs played people in positions they should have never played in because they had no other options, it's like saying Kulie was a 1st line winger because he scored 30 goals.

They literally traded their other option because of how Franson looked.

I mean you can Gaslight all you want, doesn't change the fact Jake is a difficult guy to play with because of his unpredictability.

Sure he is I get not liking the guy, but the fact you have to make up stuff (and this isn't new for you) is pretty telling.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Zaitsev is actually a really good d-man on the bigger ice, might be the pace, could just be his game does not translate to the NA ice.

Yeah, agreed. I used to scout Zaitsev for these boards when the rumors started that we might sign him. People would probably not believe their eyes if they saw his scouting reports now. His biggest strengths were his decision-making and his outlet passing. I had some issues about his first step.

What seems to have happened was that he worked on being a bit more explosive when he came over here, but he no longer got quite the time he needed to make good decisions. That lead to him panicking, which lead to confidence issues. The decision-making issues is just part of his game not translating the way I thought, and the confidence issues has made him one of our most risk-minimizing players. He should still be a guy who can make good plays when not under heavy pressure, but I think he just resigned to not being that guy at the NHL level. It's too bad really.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Isn't it logical that if those two played well with Jake, that they would have remained with Jake? Why has there been a constant revolving door of D-men playing with Jake? If Jake is valued as a Leaf, wouldn't he be signed to an extension by now?

Who were the Dmen on the Leafs the year you say he went to the top pair?

You’re being purposefully obtuse. Franson was the main piece in a deal that got a rebuilding leafs squad a first round pick and a good prospect. Carrick never gained Babcock’s trust and wasn’t a great fit since he doesn’t PK well and was never going to get a PP spot with Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott on the team.

Gardiner propped both of those guys up when they played together. Of course the coaches and management realized that they aren’t great players and tried to trade them when their value was high.

Everyone has struggled when paired with Zaitsev. His rookie year point totals are inflated by PP time and his abortion of a contract is the result. We all hoped he was the top pair RHD that we desperately needed (and still need) and that all he was going to cost was money. He’s clearly not that. His usage has been tough since he got here but he hasn’t improved at all. His peewee level gap control and inability to do anything with the puck in his own end besides fire it off the boards/glass don’t stand out as mistakes as much as Jake’s occasional Pizza but they occur so often that they cost the leafs way more goals.