Prospect Info: Nikita Tryamkin | VI

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Crabe

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Apparently after the OEL deal collapsed, Benning hastily doubled back on both Tanev and Stecher. But by then, they both basically told him to take a hike.

Evidence? Or is this just what it looks like to you? Stecher I can understand, as has been explained already. Plus in Detroit he will have a bigger role and maybe earn a bigger payday eventually. He didn't believe that this was the case here. Tanev on the other hand was never going to be given by the Canucks what he signed for in Calgary. Both situations are unfortunate IMO but I don't know that it makes sense to blame Benning for this.

Plus, we have no idea how long Benning knew that Schmidt might be available. Nor do we know what other potential deals he might have made had that one not presented itself. Benning has shown himself to be a shrewd trader...of all his recent deals, only the Toffoli one looks questionable, and only because we weren't able to re-sign him. And we don't know where this team would have gone if that trade hadn't been made. The playoff run that the team had is a big part of why players want to come here, and I think that trade did a lot to show the guys that management believes in them.

I was also not at all dis-satisfied that the team appeared to be abstaining from early UFA signings or from giving players like Tanev the extra dollars to stick around. Or from giving up the future to acquire OEL. It certainly doesn't follow from being willing to accept a short-term regression, to secure the long-term future of the team, that there is no plan. Our window is not even really open yet. Hughes and Petterson are not yet anywhere near as good as they are going to end up being.

Benning can be faulted for the outrageous extra dollars he has given to certain UFAs, but that's about it. Nobody knew two years ago that Petterson and Hughes would be this good, this early. The team is ahead of schedule so the schedule had to be altered, and you can't say that Benning hasn't made great trades to make that happen. But, of course, he gets no credit for that from certain Canucks fans, because they can be attributed to the other GMs' stupidity or poor bargaining position. As though this somehow diminishes it! As though recognizing when another GM can be taken for a ride, and getting there before anybody else, isn't an important part of being a GM!

Edit: None of this has to do with Tryamkin which is what this thread is supposed to be about I guess. I'd welcome him back at the right price as he does bring an element that we could use more of, but I can't say I disagree with the decision to refuse to give him a one-way deal.
 
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ChilliBilly

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Evidence? Or is this just what it looks like to you? Stecher I can understand, as has been explained already. Plus in Detroit he will have a bigger role and maybe earn a bigger payday eventually. He didn't believe that this was the case here. Tanev on the other hand was never going to be given by the Canucks what he signed for in Calgary. Both situations are unfortunate IMO but I don't know that it makes sense to blame Benning for this.

Plus, we have no idea how long Benning knew that Schmidt might be available. Nor do we know what other potential deals he might have made had that one not presented itself. Benning has shown himself to be a shrewd trader...of all his recent deals, only the Toffoli one looks questionable, and only because we weren't able to re-sign him. And we don't know where this team would have gone if that trade hadn't been made. The playoff run that the team had is a big part of why players want to come here, and I think that trade did a lot to show the guys that management believes in them.

I was also not at all dis-satisfied that the team appeared to be abstaining from early UFA signings or from giving players like Tanev the extra dollars to stick around. Or from giving up the future to acquire OEL. It certainly doesn't follow from being willing to accept a short-term regression, to secure the long-term future of the team, that there is no plan. Our window is not even really open yet. Hughes and Petterson are not yet anywhere near as good as they are going to end up being.

Benning can be faulted for the outrageous extra dollars he has given to certain UFAs, but that's about it. Nobody knew two years ago that Petterson and Hughes would be this good, this early. The team is ahead of schedule so the schedule had to be altered, and you can't say that Benning hasn't made great trades to make that happen. But, of course, he gets no credit for that from certain Canucks fans, because they can be attributed to the other GMs' stupidity or poor bargaining position. As though this somehow diminishes it! As though recognizing when another GM can be taken for a ride, and getting there before anybody else, isn't an important part of being a GM!

Edit: None of this has to do with Tryamkin which is what this thread is supposed to be about I guess. I'd welcome him back at the right price as he does bring an element that we could use more of, but I can't say I disagree with the decision to refuse to give him a one-way deal.

[MOD] JB has been horrible in his financial dealings. He has made 2 good trades. Hard not to like Schmidt, but thats a lot of $'s for a long time. I dis-liked the JTM trade at the time ( I was at the draft) but its turned out okay.

Anyhow, I can't wait to see Tryamkin back in a Canucks jersey. I sure can't blame him for going back to russia considering the shit show that was going on here at the time.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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I see you got a like from P of M. Are you two dating, or do you both work for the Canucks? JB has been horrible in his financial dealings. He has made 2 good trades. Hard not to like Schmidt, but thats a lot of $'s for a long time. I dis-liked the JTM trade at the time ( I was at the draft) but its turned out okay.

Anyhow, I can't wait to see Tryamkin back in a Canucks jersey. I sure can't blame him for going back to russia considering the shit show that was going on here at the time.
Thats a bit raunchy..lol..Can you be a bit more specific about what you dont like about his post?

100.gif
 

ChilliBilly

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Thats a bit raunchy..lol..Can you be a bit more specific about what you dont like about his post?

View attachment 372844

I think for the most part Benning has done a horrible job. Drafting ok. trading - below average. (he overpaid for most of his trades and bled draft picks in doing so). Signing RFA and UFA - a disaster. We could be in fantastic shape right now if he had been patient and not signed a ton of overpaid contracts. To mediocre players. Eriksson, Sutter, Ferland, Baerstchi, Beagle, Myers, Benn and maybe roussel and Holtby ... all overpaid. Yes, that is the price of trying to sign free agents, but the failure to recognize that we were years away from being competitive would have left us in great shape now if he had seen it. Sure, its not all his fault. I suspect the only way he could have kept his job was to promise that we would be competitive and have playoff games every year. Aqua man was dumb enough to believe him.

I gave up up 1/4 of my seats 3 years ago, and another 1/4 2 years ago so that I am down to 2 seats. We had those 4 prime seats since 1970. Because this team was being dumb in its asset evaluation.

Too bad we don't have cap space right now. We could make a killing. recoup draft picks and get decent players cheap. The Schmidt trade was great value, but how are we now going to sign Virtanen and Gaudette? And hopefully Podkolzin before the end of the year?

Next year we need to cough up a ton for EP and Hughes. And I suspect $2.5 M for Tryamkin, whom i really want. Hopefully JB is smart enough to go with waiver fodder in 21-22 and 22-23 to complete the line up, because EP, Hughes, Horvat, Miller, Schmidt and Myers will be taking up about $55 M of our cap. 6 players. If this is a good year, I think we all will agree Demko is going to have to be lights out. So there's another $5M. That would leave $21M to sign 20 players.

edit - ok my math is really bad - those 6 and Tryamkin is $45M Assume Boeser at $6M, and you have 8 players at $51M. Add Demko at $5M and you have 9 players at $56M. So for a 25 player roster you have $25M for 16 players. Still a major concern.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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I think for the most part Benning has done a horrible job. Drafting ok. trading - below average. (he overpaid for most of his trades and bled draft picks in doing so). Signing RFA and UFA - a disaster. We could be in fantastic shape right now if he had been patient and not signed a ton of overpaid contracts. To mediocre players. Eriksson, Sutter, Ferland, Baerstchi, Beagle, Myers, Benn and maybe roussel and Holtby ... all overpaid. Yes, that is the price of trying to sign free agents, but the failure to recognize that we were years away from being competitive would have left us in great shape now if he had seen it. Sure, its not all his fault. I suspect the only way he could have kept his job was to promise that we would be competitive and have playoff games every year. Aqua man was dumb enough to believe him.

I gave up up 1/4 of my seats 3 years ago, and another 1/4 2 years ago so that I am down to 2 seats. We had those 4 prime seats since 1970. Because this team was being dumb in its asset evaluation.

Too bad we don't have cap space right now. We could make a killing. recoup draft picks and get decent players cheap. The Schmidt trade was great value, but how are we now going to sign Virtanen and Gaudette? And hopefully Podkolzin before the end of the year?

Next year we need to cough up a ton for EP and Hughes. And I suspect $2.5 M for Tryamkin, whom i really want. Hopefully JB is smart enough to go with waiver fodder in 21-22 and 22-23 to complete the line up, because EP, Hughes, Horvat, Miller, Schmidt and Myers will be taking up about $55 M of our cap. 6 players. If this is a good year, I think we all will agree Demko is going to have to be lights out. So there's another $5M. That would leave $21M to sign 20 players.

edit - ok my math is really bad - those 6 and Tryamkin is $45M Assume Boeser at $6M, and you have 8 players at $51M. Add Demko at $5M and you have 9 players at $56M. So for a 25 player roster you have $25M for 16 players. Still a major concern.
There's no argument that he's overpaid on UFA's (on $ and term), and Crabe mentions that..

"but the failure to recognize that we were years away from being competitive would have left us in great shape now if he had seen it."

I think that Benning (and Linden ) were very aware that they didnt have a slew of quality players coming up through the ranks, and the team needed to be rebuilt..They did the ill conceived the 'rebuild on the fly' for 3 years..If you think the rookie GM came here in 2014, and hatched that entire plan, I'd say you're wrong...He would have been fired years ago if that were the case...They did not try and compete for a playoff spot in 2017-18, and 2018-19.

Crabe mentions that Hughes and EP are ahead of schedule, the window is just opening for these players (as the overpaid vet players are coming off the books , all within the next two years)

As to Benning being a shrewd trader..I'll just say, he's getting better..His worst trades were in the first two years.

In the next few years, we're going to cough up $ for some exceptional players..I'm ok with that..Its a good problem to have.

I also think that its amazing that you have retained your season tickets for 50 years....

Now back to your regular programming...Nikita Tryamkin..
 
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ChilliBilly

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There's no argument that he's overpaid on UFA's (on $ and term), and Crabe mentions that..

"but the failure to recognize that we were years away from being competitive would have left us in great shape now if he had seen it."

I think that Benning (and Linden ) were very aware that they didnt have a slew of quality players coming up through the ranks, and the team needed to be rebuilt..They did the ill conceived the 'rebuild on the fly' for 3 years..If you think the rookie GM came here in 2014, and hatched that entire plan, I'd say you're wrong...He would have been fired years ago if that were the case...They did not try and compete for a playoff spot in 2017-18, and 2018-19.

Crabe mentions that Hughes and EP are ahead of schedule, the window is just opening for these players (as the overpaid vet players are coming off the books , all within the next two years)

As to Benning being a shrewd trader..I'll just say, he's getting better..His worst trades were in the first two years.

In the next few years, we're going to cough up $ for some exceptional players..I'm ok with that..Its a good problem to have.

I also think that its amazing that you have retained your season tickets for 50 years....

Now back to your regular programming...Nikita Tryamkin..

I was a teenager when my dad got the seats. I didn't take them over until he died in 2004. I can't afford them, so I sell them to close friends and family. However, I have gone pretty much regularly to games every year, thx to my dad, and a pretty well off friend.
 

barriers

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Feb 10, 2020
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Tryamkin with a SHG today (about 30 seconds into the video.) I hadn't watched Avto yet this season and didn't realise he got the 'C' back. It's a damn shame the Canucks couldn't use a big, mobile, bottom-pairing defenseman who can play either side, on a relatively cheap contract next season. The important thing when evaluating players though, of course, is whether he personally upset you years ago by exercising a pre-negotiated clause in his contract.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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Just assuming he’s making the equivalent of 900K-1M... 2 years 3M-3.5M to lure him back?
A year? That’s insane.

People still talk about this guy like he’s a young prospect. He’s older than Bo Horvat for goodness sakes.

Next year he’s UFA age. He’s not a developing prospect. It’s so strange the way people talk about this guy vs Stecher and Hutton (same aged players that are better).
 

Ottobot

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A year? That’s insane.

People still talk about this guy like he’s a young prospect. He’s older than Bo Horvat for goodness sakes.

Next year he’s UFA age. He’s not a developing prospect. It’s so strange the way people talk about this guy vs Stecher and Hutton (same aged players that are better).

1.5-1.75M per year.
 

ChilliBilly

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1.5-1.75M per year.

They are going to have to pay a little more than that to get him over methinks. I think 3 x $2.5 M would be a wise move, but I still think this guy is going to be a very good player. Easy top 2nd pairing in a few years.

Edit - I just posted in Management thread - they are looking at a proposed 15 - 20 % deferral, and increased escrow, which the players are unlikely to ever see considering the fact that revenues will dive without fans in the seats. I don't think Tryamkin is coming over if he doesn't see a significant raise over what he's making. They might have to give him a $3 M contract of which he will likely see only about 55% after deferral, escrow and Canadian taxes)
 
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4Twenty

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They are going to have to pay a little more than that to get him over methinks. I think 3 x $2.5 M would be a wise move, but I still think this guy is going to be a very good player. Easy top 2nd pairing in a few years.
Pretty certain the guy makes less than $1millin USD currently. You're prepared to quadruple his salary? I don't mind them giving him a shot, but he's certainly not worth a 3 year contract at that rate.

Nikita Tryamkin

Not sure about this, but it seems reasonable. The top KHL salaries before bonuses is 180 million rubles. That like $2.3m USD. They don't need to overpay so considerably to get him over. His ELC NHL contract paid him more than he gets in the KHL currently or at least as of a season or two back.

How many years do they control his rights?

They might get a Jamie Oleksiak out of him, just need a Heiskanen to cover all his warts.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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Stopped reading right here. All credibility out the window.

See:
Gudbranson
Sutter
Bonino
Prust
Vey

Not bothering to even spend time on all the assets he’s pissed down the drain at deadlines and contract expiries. Ie Hamhuis, Markstrom etc etc etc
All of that is pre-2017. Nobody argues he was making good trades pre-2017.
 

Andy Dufresne

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Jimbo had about the worst 2 years trading in GM history. Thats part of his record. He hasn't made a shit trade since Gudbranson in 2016. That's also part of his record.
 
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4Twenty

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All of that is pre-2017. Nobody argues he was making good trades pre-2017.
But the comment was somebody calling him a shrewd trader. His entire trade history should be considered not just post what ever date you want to choose.

Besides he got less for Del Zotto than Anaheim did. Spooner/Gagner doesn’t look particularly shrewd (still paying for the buyout this season). Neither was Biega for ECHL player. I also recall both Leivo and Pearson were offered to him.

I can agree his best trades occurred during this period but shrewd just seems a bit much.
 

DL44

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Jimbo had about the worst 2 years trading in GM history. Thats part of his record. He hasn't made a shit trade since Gudbranson in 2016. That's also part of his record.

His trades the first 2 yrs weren't great...
But no need to hyperbolic about it.

Just a whole lotta bleaaahh...


Trades:
-2014-15-----------

Bonino, Sbisa, 1st (#24 - McCann), 3rd --- Kesler, 3rd (#84 - Deven Sideroff)
Dorsett --- 3rd (#85 - Keegan Iverson)
2nd --- Garrison, 7th (204th - Jack Sadek), Costello
Vey --- 2nd (#50 - Roland McKeown)
Acton --- Lain
Pedan --- Mallet, '16 3rd (came back to us)
Clendening --- Forsling
Conacher --- Jeffrey
Baertschi --- 2nd (#53 - Rasmus Andersson)

-2015-16-----------
3rd (66th - Brisebois) and (#194 McKenzie) --- Lack
7th (210th - Tate Olson) --- McNally
Prust --- Kassian, (#124 Staum)
'16 2nd --- Bieksa
Sutter, (#64 Lockwood) --- Bonino, Clendening, (#55 Gustavsson)
Etem --- Jensen, '17 6th (157- Lakatos)
Granlund --- Shinkaruk
Larsen --- '17 5th (126- Karow)
Futures --- Fox
 
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ChilliBilly

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Pretty certain the guy makes less than $1millin USD currently. You're prepared to quadruple his salary? I don't mind them giving him a shot, but he's certainly not worth a 3 year contract at that rate.

Nikita Tryamkin

Not sure about this, but it seems reasonable. The top KHL salaries before bonuses is 180 million rubles. That like $2.3m USD. They don't need to overpay so considerably to get him over. His ELC NHL contract paid him more than he gets in the KHL currently or at least as of a season or two back.

How many years do they control his rights?

They might get a Jamie Oleksiak out of him, just need a Heiskanen to cover all his warts.

You saw my comments in my edit I assume. They pay very little taxes in Russia. Say he make $1M US / year. If he gets $3M here, he might get 2o % deferred, and 20 % escrow. He's down to $1.8 M, and probably is going to have to pay 30% in taxes. He will net about $1.25 M, which is a very minor raise. He likes life better in Russia, this is not a lot of incentive to come over here after how he was treated last time.

And the problem is that how league is concerned about how they will get their money back from the players in a year where revenues will be way down. The agreed upon escrow amount isn't going to come close to covering the revenue shortfall.
 

Bam19

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Apr 3, 2008
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Pretty certain the guy makes less than $1millin USD currently. You're prepared to quadruple his salary? I don't mind them giving him a shot, but he's certainly not worth a 3 year contract at that rate.

Nikita Tryamkin

Not sure about this, but it seems reasonable. The top KHL salaries before bonuses is 180 million rubles. That like $2.3m USD. They don't need to overpay so considerably to get him over. His ELC NHL contract paid him more than he gets in the KHL currently or at least as of a season or two back.

How many years do they control his rights?

They might get a Jamie Oleksiak out of him, just need a Heiskanen to cover all his warts.

He seems to make between 50-60 million roubles so 750k roughly so with the escrow next couple years I would imagine a 1.75 million deal for 2 years.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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But the comment was somebody calling him a shrewd trader. His entire trade history should be considered not just post what ever date you want to choose.

Besides he got less for Del Zotto than Anaheim did. Spooner/Gagner doesn’t look particularly shrewd (still paying for the buyout this season). Neither was Biega for ECHL player. I also recall both Leivo and Pearson were offered to him.

I can agree his best trades occurred during this period but shrewd just seems a bit much.

Lot's of trades are offered, good GMs take the good ones. So you lose me with that as an indictment of his capabilities.

People. Can. Learn. And. Grow.

Jim Benning was a terrible GM from 2014-beginning of 2017. Whether it was directives from ownership, or him not understanding the direction the league was trending (towards youth and speed), he chased his own tail and was terrible.

Then, he either had the restraints taken off, or he figured things out (intelligent people often do), and changed his M.O.
 

Frankie Blueberries

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Lot's of trades are offered, good GMs take the good ones. So you lose me with that as an indictment of his capabilities.

People. Can. Learn. And. Grow.

Jim Benning was a terrible GM from 2014-beginning of 2017. Whether it was directives from ownership, or him not understanding the direction the league was trending (towards youth and speed), he chased his own tail and was terrible.

Then, he either had the restraints taken off, or he figured things out (intelligent people often do), and changed his M.O.

I don't think this is even that true.
He still signed Beagle, Roussel, Ferland, Benn, and Myers (to an extent) to awful contracts that handcuffed the team in losing Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli and any other potential UFAs that could have helped compete now that our window is actually opening. As of right now, he looks to have learned very little from his blunders in UFA signings. His trades have vastly improved, but the Toffoli trade doesn't look great given what we gave up and what we ultimately received (I take the view that we still make the playoffs and have a similar run without Toffoli, but obviously this is a hypothetical).
 

deckercky

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Lot's of trades are offered, good GMs take the good ones. So you lose me with that as an indictment of his capabilities.

People. Can. Learn. And. Grow.

Jim Benning was a terrible GM from 2014-beginning of 2017. Whether it was directives from ownership, or him not understanding the direction the league was trending (towards youth and speed), he chased his own tail and was terrible.

Then, he either had the restraints taken off, or he figured things out (intelligent people often do), and changed his M.O.

I think people are right to slag Benning for a lot of what he has done, but I also think that he's at worst a middle of the pack gm over the last 3 seasons. If you accept that he developed, and is what he was over the last 3 seasons, then firing him and replacing him with an unknown comes with a lot of potential downside.
 

deckercky

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Oct 27, 2010
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In terms of Tryamkin....I doubt he upends his life and moves to North America at this point unless there's a significant raise - so at least $2m but more likely $2.5-3m. Hes making about $750k today without escrow and at a lower tax rate, but he will still be in a position to demand a raise if he stays in Russia.
 
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