Player Discussion Nikita Scherbak: Scherby-Dooby-Doo

[Vachon23]

They are 4th liners

Sherback is a KHLers

 

[InglewoodJack]

Agreed. We should of waived the other 4th line depth and gave Scherbak a few games.

But wait, this is a pride/rebound year man. Habs don't have time to let prospects learn on the job with our middle of the pack strategy where we want to make the playoffs where "anything can happen"

Ultimately I think Scherbak was pretty done with the Habs so I don't mind having lost him, but lately the obsession with our scrubbiest scrubs is out of control. Like you're complaining that we signed Plek purely for him to hit a milestone and in the process didn't retain DLR, a player so unspecatular he's currently among the least effective forwards on one of the only teams weaker than us? Or people are thinking that we need to protect guys like Peca and chaput? Nearly all of our bottom six are fine a dozen replacements, and their role can be served by countless players from all 32 organizations.

 

[montreal]

I think at this time, they chose skills/stats over work ethic. We needed it at the time. (We still do)

Kinda like with McCarron, they chose size over pretty much anything. We also needed it at the time.

With this organization, can't really question how they scout for players with good work ethic. I mean just look at our lineup right now. Very hardworking, just not talented enough.

But yeah, I'm not sure anymore if we're just unlucky or they don't know how to develop young guys. Thinking a little bit of both.

their development has been terrible. Every 1st round has been rushed to the NHL and yet they continue to repeat the move over and over. At least after 6 years they finally fired the guy that when first hired had 0 games of experience as a head coach.

Chris Nilan mentioned some lazy floating habits, and that the coaches wanted him to play more of and aggressive quick style. Specifically, he mentioned when the puck went back down the ice that Sherbak wouldn’t skate, but would take a long loopy line back.

When I saw him play I also noticed that he lacked effort when he played. He showed it a bit, but usually when he was attacking, not defending.

Watching him play I thought that he needed a lot of work, looked weak on his feet, lacked quickness and effort, and too rarely showed high offensively IQ.

Sure, he had a tough road being shifted about, but I don’t think that was the issue with Sherbak. I think it was effort, dedication, and commitment to off-ice training.

He did need a lot of work especially with his lack of strength and it didn't help that he missed so much time to injury as he lost over a full year of pro hockey over his 3 years.

He did show a lot of improvement in the effort department last year, he had a mixed bag in the 5 games this year in Laval but he was sitting for over a month and was sick and did play much better when he was back from being sick.

Well for now DLR isn't a huge loss... playing 8min a game in Detroit.

DLR is playing over 12 minutes a night.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Agalloch]

DLR is playing over 12 minutes a night.

NHL.com - Stats

Not recently.

In the last month he averages 8:07 to 11:53

Jacob De La Rose

 

[montreal]

Not recently.

In the last month he averages 8:07 to 11:53

Jacob De La Rose

how can he average 8:07 when he's only played 2 games under 9:36. In the last month he's played 142 minutes in 12 games.

 

[Wats]

Bergevin's drafting/development history keeps getting worse.

 

[Agalloch]

how can he average 8:07 when he's only played 2 games under 9:36. In the last month he's played 142 minutes in 12 games.

Sorry I meant his lower was 8:07 and higher 11:53

His Ice time seems high because he played 3 games at 16-17 minutes.

 

[montreal]

Sorry I meant his lower was 8:07 and higher 11:53

His Ice time seems high because he played 3 games at 16-17 minutes.

in his 15 games, 4 have been under 10 minutes, 4 have been over 15 minutes and 7 have been over 10 and under 15. I haven't seen any games so I don't know why he dropped to just over 8 minutes for those 2 games but since that he's played 9:36 and 10:53 in his last 2 games. If you take his TOI after he played 18 minutes, he's been over 90 minutes in those 9 games.

 

[Runner77]

It's fine to draft a flawed player, and it's true that Scherbak had some flaws, though not sure why you're accusing him of not training, he seems in good health, from the pictures I've seen and his play on the ice. Defensive flaws, sure. What they had on their hands is a skilled package of a player, no matter what you think of the actual player, I'm not sure anyone can disagree with this. Scherbak had potential when he was drafted, of all the agencies, scouts and lists out there, he did not rank lower than 27. He was bad at the start of the 2013-2014 season defensively and he was not physical at all, but he made good strides there, while playing top minutes for the Blades. Why didn't they realize what they had on their hands ? Why do they keep trying to make players something theyre not ? Why is the Habs the only team (Or one of the only) that treats every player equal ? Theres a whole blue collar, earn it attitude around this team and it's just stupid. The media loves it too, RDS and TVA would rather see a team full of Danault than a team full of Domi. It's crazy how bad it's got. A franchise that used to praise players such as Roy, Robinson, Lafleur, Richard, Beliveau, Geoffrion is now praising the Danaults and Gorges of this world.

Just imagine if Scotty Bowman decided to jam Lafleur on the fourth line for his two first seasons instead of on the opposing wing of Shutt ?

Just to be clear, I'm not "accusing" Scherbak of anything. All I've written has come from others who have made these comments about Scherbak.

I would agree that the team seems to have an approach of making square pegs fit round holes and that needs to change.

The other part of the equation is not so much that most 18 year olds exhibit "flaws", it's the fact that there are certain aspects of a player's personality, habits, work ethic that should raise red flags during a thorough evaluative process that includes interviews and other tools. The Habs squandered all of their first round picks from 2009 through 2014, picks where a drafting contingent is supposedly favored statistically as having the best ROI.

I don't know if they've changed anything since 2014, however there is plenty of blame to go around. Bergevin wasn't there for the pre-2012 selections but several were retained from those years and I'm not sure MB has hired the best available amateur scouts over his tenure.

I've always maintained that there is a significant advantage for high revenue teams like the Habs to overspend on non-cap related talent and resources. There are teams out there with a lesser revenue stream, a smaller scouting contingent but who have a track record of posting a higher batting average when it comes to draft selections. Poach and overpay these scouts whenever any of them hit the market or their contracts end. If you're not staffing the best in the business, then you get the monumental fails we've seen and continue to see.

 

[Runner77]

If Scherbak has no potential at 22 then what makes you think Chaput, Deslauriers or Agostino at 26, 27 and 26 respectively have any. Considering they have all produced next to nothing at the pro level.

Dlo, Ouellet, Benn, Schlemko.

Keep collecting replaceable, lowest common denominator assets that always hit the market.

Now, we don't know for a fact that a 22-year old Scherbak will amount to no better than a 4th liner. However, what we do know is that none of these other bottom liners and bottom pairing types are going to be much more than they are now.

And, what we can't afford anymore, is seeing high selections let go for nothing. What happened to monitoring assets for depreciating value and moving pre-emptively before their market value is at its lowest?

 

[Agalloch]

in his 15 games, 4 have been under 10 minutes, 4 have been over 15 minutes and 7 have been over 10 and under 15. I haven't seen any games so I don't know why he dropped to just over 8 minutes for those 2 games but since that he's played 9:36 and 10:53 in his last 2 games. If you take his TOI after he played 18 minutes, he's been over 90 minutes in those 9 games.

Look like the same ice time as he was getting here.

Career 4th liner...at best a 3rd liner.

 

[Habs]

Our scouting needs a serious overhaul in my mind. In our glorious last playoff run, none of Bergy's additions are even in the NHL any longer. King, Martinsen and Ott. That is brutal. Now another first rounder is a flop, and waivers to boot. The scouts are awful in the West to say the least.

 

[Runner77]

You draft someone because of his potential.

But it's clear that while management did like some of his talent, the coaches didn't like things in his game. Coaches are the ones deciding who's playing.

You can't force coaches to play them but the team still believe in these players at some point.

Even if we adopt the premise that coaches didn't take to the player and didn't believe he'd develop. Why are we cutting bait now? Could we not have relied on these oracle coaches to sell off the player a lot earlier so that we at least ended up with something rather than losing yet another first round pick for nothing?

 

[Agalloch]

Our scouting needs a serious overhaul in my mind. In our glorious last playoff run, none of Bergy's additions are even in the NHL any longer. King, Martinsen and Ott. That is brutal. Now another first rounder is a flop, and waivers to boot. The scouts are awful in the West to say the least.

Martinsen is in the NHL with Blackhawks but still, you're right.

Even if we adopt the premise that coaches didn't take to the player and didn't believe he'd develop. Why are we cutting bait now? Could we not have relied on these oracle coaches to sell off the player a lot earlier so that we at least ended up with something rather than losing yet another first round pick for nothing?

I agree. He should have played 2-3 games at least.

 

[Runner77]

Our scouting needs a serious overhaul in my mind. In our glorious last playoff run, none of Bergy's additions are even in the NHL any longer. King, Martinsen and Ott. That is brutal. Now another first rounder is a flop, and waivers to boot. The scouts are awful in the West to say the least.

Both our Amateur and Pro Scouting needs an audit and a proactive plan for upgrading both personnel and organizational priorities and actionable data mining.

Despite the few high level name individuals that were replaced this summer, the only changes on the Amateur procurement side were low level. And I don't remember any changes on the Pro Procurement side -- Eric Crawford continues to be there and if that's not a red flag, I don't know what is.

Yeah, keep trusting MB for a "reset" or whatever it means.

 

[Habs]

Both our Amateur and Pro Scouting needs an audit and a proactive plan for upgrading both personnel and organizational priorities and actionable data mining.

Despite the few high level name individuals that were replaced this summer, the only changes on the Amateur procurement side were low level. And I don't remember any changes on the Pro Procurement side -- Eric Crawford continues to be there and if that's not a red flag, I don't know what is.

Yeah, keep trusting MB for a "reset" or whatever it means.

There is no explanation for how Crawford has a job, he is a joke.

 

[No fan fiction]

their development has been terrible. Every 1st round has been rushed to the NHL and yet they continue to repeat the move over and over. At least after 6 years they finally fired the guy that when first hired had 0 games of experience as a head coach.



He did need a lot of work especially with his lack of strength and it didn't help that he missed so much time to injury as he lost over a full year of pro hockey over his 3 years.

He did show a lot of improvement in the effort department last year, he had a mixed bag in the 5 games this year in Laval but he was sitting for over a month and was sick and did play much better when he was back from being sick.



DLR is playing over 12 minutes a night.

NHL.com - Stats

DLR averaging under 10 min over last 6 games. trend is not good, what with his 15 pt pace.

Too many rushed to the NHL?

At the risk of being shadow banned for daring to disagree with you, based on actual facts. You are the same guy who moaned about every one of your minor league favs (so you could say, "I knew them when" or something?)--Tinordi, Pateryn, Hudon, Ellis, Bud Holloway (really?), and that guy who couldn't skate, er Chris Terry, the last couple years etc.--not getting "a fair chance." Please.

Why don't you go back to your "it's all Lefebvre's fault" mantra? That one was almost credible (except Scherbak was over on an 85 pt pace under Lefebvre, who allegedly couldn't develop offense, and forgetting that minor league scorers like Bud Holloway, Terry, Taorimina, etc. were completely themselves the whole time leading to the "give them a chance" refrain).

Also back in the day, Hamilton had the Eric Manlow fiasco and Calder Cup champion coach Don Lever was the one in charge. Dude went from 73 to 18 pts. They still won the cup. It happens. It repeats. There's history for it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Just to be clear, I'm not "accusing" Scherbak of anything. All I've written has come from others who have made these comments about Scherbak.

I would agree that the team seems to have an approach of making square pegs fit round holes and that needs to change.

The other part of the equation is not so much that most 18 year olds exhibit "flaws", it's the fact that there are certain aspects of a player's personality, habits, work ethic that should raise red flags during a thorough evaluative process that includes interviews and other tools. The Habs squandered all of their first round picks from 2009 through 2014, picks where a drafting contingent is supposedly favored statistically as having the best ROI.

I don't know if they've changed anything since 2014, however there is plenty of blame to go around. Bergevin wasn't there for the pre-2012 selections but several were retained from those years and I'm not sure MB has hired the best available amateur scouts over his tenure.

I've always maintained that there is a significant advantage for high revenue teams like the Habs to overspend on non-cap related talent and resources. There are teams out there with a lesser revenue stream, a smaller scouting contingent but who have a track record of posting a higher batting average when it comes to draft selections. Poach and overpay these scouts whenever any of them hit the market or their contracts end. If you're not staffing the best in the business, then you get the monumental fails we've seen and continue to see.

This. The Habs should have four scouts for every scout a team like Ottawa or Carolina has.

 

[the]

They are 4th liners

Sherback is a KHLers

What about Radulov?

He was a KHLer but he's a 1st liner in the NHL.

 

[Vachon23]

What about Radulov?

He was a KHLer but he's a 1st liner in the NHL.

Your kidding right ? You can't be serious ?

 

[Sorinth]

Even if we adopt the premise that coaches didn't take to the player and didn't believe he'd develop. Why are we cutting bait now? Could we not have relied on these oracle coaches to sell off the player a lot earlier so that we at least ended up with something rather than losing yet another first round pick for nothing?

This needs repeating. It's nonsensical to hold onto prospects whose value is declining when the coach has made it clear they don't like them and will never trust them. We saw it over and over again from Tinordi to Beaulieu to Sherbak to Galchenyuk. Right or wrong the coach makes up his mind and then we hold onto them while their value drops and drops.

My preference is to get rid of coaches who are so rigid in their thinking. But if you're going to stick with your coach through thick and thin in a foxhole then you have to make those moves before they degrade a players/prospects value. If in year two Therrien decides Galchenyuk won't be a center at the NHL, that's when you start shopping him, not 5 years later.

 

[cphabs]

When was the last time we drafted and developed a forward that put up 70+ points? Richer?

 

[Vachon23]

When was the last time we drafted and developed a forward that put up 70+ points? Richer?

Plekanec

 

[cphabs]

Plekanec

Thanks

 

[cphabs]

Plekanec

2001...