Nikita Gusev is already getting scratched..

[Melkor]

Despite being tied for 1st place on the team in goals and t-5th for pts and having the 2nd lowest TOI/G on the team.


I still don't get how these supposedly world class executives and coaches get these players like Shipachev and Gusev at the age of 30 (couple years more or less) and after a couple of games say things like this with a straight face. You're basically signing a player that is a finished product at that point of his career. You either like his game or not. What's the deal with all these 'we want him to play like this/that without the puck'? This guy has never been known as a 200 foot player. He has always been about offense. How many players in hockey have ever all of a sudden become sound defensively after being defensive liabilities for their entire life? I've read his interview in Russian a couple of weeks ago and the guy is frustrated by the coach and the way his team trying to play, to say the least.

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[Empoleon8771]

Here's another thought: you need to do more than produce at a sub-40 point pace if you're an absolute trainwreck of a player outside of your production.

I know Russian posters on here want to make it "NHL coaches hate Russian players!", but it's really that the top players coming out of the KHL tend to be super flawed players. They can dominate in the KHL while being completely incompatible with playing in the NHL. The reason Gusev is getting scratched is because he's downright dreadful away from the puck.

 

[Melkor]

Here's another thought: you need to do more than produce at a sub-40 point pace if you're an absolute trainwreck of a player outside of your production.

I know Russian posters on here want to make it "NHL coaches hate Russian players!", but it's really that the top players coming out of the KHL tend to be super flawed players. They can dominate in the KHL while being completely incompatible with playing in the NHL. The reason Gusev is getting scratched is because he's downright dreadful away from the puck.

Here's the answer: you don't like the player? You don't sign him and thats the end to every such story. If you sign a grown guy and force him to change his game when you've had every chance in the world to scout him properly, you're not a smart person and that's the whole point.

 

[HBK27]

He'll be watching the game with Patrik Elias, who is as good an example as any player of being a top offensive producer while still playing great defense.

Let's see where this goes and how Gusev responds.

 

[illpucks]

Here's another thought: you need to do more than produce at a sub-40 point pace if you're an absolute trainwreck of a player outside of your production.

I know Russian posters on here want to make it "NHL coaches hate Russian players!", but it's really that the top players coming out of the KHL tend to be super flawed players. They can dominate in the KHL while being completely incompatible with playing in the NHL. The reason Gusev is getting scratched is because he's downright dreadful away from the puck.

Or maybe NHL head office is calling and they don't want 2 97's in the game.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yikes.

 

[Albatros]

Everyone watching international hockey knew exactly what kind of a player Gusev is already for years, and yet the management in New Jersey who acquired him still have no idea how to use him properly. Although the NHL isn't known for its high tactical ability, the Devils are doing a poor job even in that context.

 

[illpucks]

Everyone watching international hockey knew exactly what kind of a player Gusev is already for years, and yet the management in New Jersey who acquired him still have no idea how to use him properly. Although the NHL isn't known for its high tactical ability, the Devils are doing a poor job even in that context.

Gusev is another Burakovsky. Useless on one team, superstar on another.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

it's our coach that needs to be scratched.

 

[HansonBro]

I very thoughtfully passed on him in my drafts. Sure enough its come to this and I'm not sure why. I feel like Kovalchuck is getting the same treatment with a sprinkle of respect thrown on top based on his history

Who was the last success and any others? Dadanov for sure ....

 

[traparatus]

Despite being tied for 1st place on the team in goals and t-5th for pts and having the 2nd lowest TOI/G on the team.


I still don't get how these supposedly world class executives and coaches get these players like Shipachev and Gusev at the age of 30 (couple years more or less) and after a couple of games say things like this with a straight face. You're basically signing a player that is a finished product at that point of his career. You either like his game or not. What's the deal with all these 'we want him to play like this/that without the puck'? This guy has never been known as a 200 foot player. He has always been about offense. How many players in hockey have ever all of a sudden become sound defensively after being defensive liabilities for their entire life? I've read his interview in Russian a couple of weeks ago and the guy is frustrated by the coach and the way his team trying to play, to say the least.

I think they honestly believe that they can coach a player to play a more complete game. Stems from NHL coaches spending their whole career surrounded by very pliable players.

Well, guys coming over late from the KHL have another good option apart from playing a structured defensive game. They can go back and resume their very successful career in the KHL. They behave like it.

Remember when Caps signed Shumakov? We were desperate to acquire any offensive depth within the organization. The moment Shumakov wasn't gifted a spot in the line up and was asked to develop his game in the AHL for a while, he took his ball and went home.

 

[NinjaKick]

Goose reminds me of when the Devils signed Damien Brunner... solid offensive skills but useless without the puck

 

[nhlfan9191]

Here's another thought: you need to do more than produce at a sub-40 point pace if you're an absolute trainwreck of a player outside of your production.

I know Russian posters on here want to make it "NHL coaches hate Russian players!", but it's really that the top players coming out of the KHL tend to be super flawed players. They can dominate in the KHL while being completely incompatible with playing in the NHL. The reason Gusev is getting scratched is because he's downright dreadful away from the puck.

The game is just so different in Europe. I imagine a player who has literally no experience in North America feels like they’re playing a different sport when they come here, especially when they’ve been playing a different style into just about their 30’s.

 

[Viqsi]

Here's the answer: you don't like the player? You don't sign him and thats the end to every such story. If you sign a grown guy and force him to change his game when you've had every chance in the world to scout him properly, you're not a smart person and that's the whole point.

It's really quite simple. If you see the potential for a good all-around player, you take that chance. You pay a massive discount to pick up the damaged goods - say, a couple of late draft picks - and then you see if he'll respond. And if he doesn't... well, then, you gave it a try.

Because a Gusev that is a total trainwreck without the puck and can't outscore his own mistakes is not an NHL-quality player. He is bad enough that he cannot help the team. Scoring 40 points in a flashy manner does not help if you give the opposition 50 or 60 points or more.

 

[Melkor]

I think they honestly believe that they can coach a player to play a more complete game. Stems from NHL coaches spending their whole career surrounded by very pliable players.

Well, guys coming over late from the KHL have another good option apart from playing a structured defensive game. They can go back and resume their very successful career in the KHL. They behave like it.

Remember when Caps signed Shumakov? We were desperate to acquire any offensive depth within the organization. The moment Shumakov wasn't gifted a spot in the line up and was asked to develop his game in the AHL for a while, he took his ball and went home.

Shumakov though has never been and will never be as impactful offensive player as Gusev is. With Gusev you've got to really realize the level of hockey IQ the guy has when it comes to anything with the puck. Finding passing lanes out of nowhere, foreseeing whats gonna happen next in 2-3-4 seconds, very good shot. With this kind of players it's a dumb approach to destroy their confidence by playing them a couple shifts per period and forcing them into unknown roles for them. You either appreciate them for what they are or don't touch them at all.

It's really quite simple. If you see the potential for a good all-around player, you take that chance. You pay a massive discount to pick up the damaged goods - say, a couple of late draft picks - and then you see if he'll respond. And if he doesn't... well, then, you gave it a try.

Because a Gusev that is a total trainwreck without the puck and can't outscore his own mistakes is not an NHL-quality player. He is bad enough that he cannot help the team. Scoring 40 points in a flashy manner does not help if you give the opposition 50 or 60 points or more.

Lol what damaged goods? Gusev has neve rbeen seen by anyone as a complete player. Anyone who says otherwise loses all credibility on the spot. Also the narrative that he'd score 40 pts while given a consistent top-6 role and a PP time is completely made up out of the blue because there's no sane argument to be made in favor of that exact number. Come back with something less ridiculous.

 

[Viqsi]

Shumakov though has never been and will never be as impactful offensive player as Gusev is. With Gusev you've got to really realize the level of hockey IQ the guy has when it comes to anything with the puck. Finding passing lanes out of nowhere, foreseeing whats gonna happen next in 2-3-4 seconds, very good shot. With this kind of players it's a dumb approach to destroy their confidence by playing them a couple shifts per period and forcing them into unknown roles for them. You either appreciate them for what they are or don't touch them at all.

Right now what he is is not good enough to outscore the mistakes he's making on the ice. That's the simple reality.

It's not just Russians. It applies to Canadians and Americans as well. We've been going through this for years upon years with Sonny Milano, for example, and he's only just now starting to really get it.

 

[bov]

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Windy River]

Maybe Gusev wants to take a few games off and this looks better to the fans/media than saying ‘I think I’m just gonna sit this one out’.

 

[Melkor]

Right now what he is is not good enough to outscore the mistakes he's making on the ice. That's the simple reality.

It's not just Russians. It applies to Canadians and Americans as well. We've been going through this for years upon years with Sonny Milano, for example, and he's only just now starting to really get it.

Sonny Milano was 18 coming into your system. He was basically a kid. Gusev is 27. Apples and oranges.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Here's the answer: you don't like the player? You don't sign him and thats the end to every such story. If you sign a grown guy and force him to change his game when you've had every chance in the world to scout him properly, you're not a smart person and that's the whole point.

I'm confused. Are you suggesting that NHL teams should refuse to sign KHL players, because it's generally unknown how these players will adjust to the NHL game and smaller ice surface? Or are you suggesting that NHL teams shouldn't try to help KHL players adapt to the NHL game and smaller ice surface, and just let them continue to do what made them successful in the KHL, regardless of how well it works in the NHL?

 

[Kshahdoo]

Here's another thought: you need to do more than produce at a sub-40 point pace if you're an absolute trainwreck of a player outside of your production.

I know Russian posters on here want to make it "NHL coaches hate Russian players!", but it's really that the top players coming out of the KHL tend to be super flawed players. They can dominate in the KHL while being completely incompatible with playing in the NHL. The reason Gusev is getting scratched is because he's downright dreadful away from the puck.

European coaches usually try to adjust their systems to players they have (especially, good players), and NHL coaches usually try to squeeze players into their systems. Especially when we're talking about coaches as great, as John Hynes.

As great Makarov once told to his NHL coach: "Tikhonov was bad person, but great coach, and you're great person, but bad coach".

 

[Melkor]

I'm confused. Are you suggesting that NHL teams should refuse to sign KHL players, because it's generally unknown how these players will adjust to the NHL game and smaller ice surface? Or are you suggesting that NHL teams shouldn't try to help KHL players adapt to the NHL game and smaller ice surface, and just let them continue to do what made them successful in the KHL, regardless of how well it works in the NHL?

1) No.
2)Yes if those players are already in their prime years and won't change their game no matter what you want to see from them. I think I've chose a pretty clear wording for that.

 

[Auto Pilot]

He gets scratched while pointless John Hayden and Rooney keep on playing. Jesper Boqvist has played only two games so far, only 22 minutes of hockey. Gusev def is a bit of a mess without the puck, but it doesn’t help Hynes has them playing some sort of protect the net defense like they’re in the PK 5 on 5 and has the dmen trying to hit home run passes all the time that get broken up must of the time in the neutral zone and results in a counter attack and being hemmed in their own end way more than they should.

John Hynes is just a bad coach and is a big reason the Devils are such a shit show and blowing leads left and right. Can’t wait for him to get fired, same with Shero if he keeps holding onto the dumb ass.

 

[traparatus]

Shumakov though has never been and will never be as impactful offensive player as Gusev is. With Gusev you've got to really realize the level of hockey IQ the guy has when it comes to anything with the puck. Finding passing lanes out of nowhere, foreseeing whats gonna happen next in 2-3-4 seconds, very good shot. With this kind of players it's a dumb approach to destroy their confidence by playing them a couple shifts per period and forcing them into unknown roles for them. You either appreciate them for what they are or don't touch them at all.

I don't disagree with you. I side with staying away from them all together.

I remember saying this back when New Jersey traded for Gusev. All their fans said 'Why not take a chance? Worst case scenario, the guy doesn't work out' but that's not the worst case scenario. Worst case, the guy is completely un-coachable and becomes a huge distraction for the rest of the team.

A coach has to have all the tools of the trade available to him when dealing with a player in his ~10th NHL game. That includes reduced ice time, healthy scratches and AHL demotion. If a player is not comfortable with it and is unwilling to adapt, I'd rather not get involved with them in the first place.

 

[Trocity]

But I thought he was the hot free agent signing and was supposed to be a superstar.