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Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part X

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covfefe

covfefe

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Dondini said:
I’ve researched a quite a bit about specific hockey training, heights, weights, I’m also a pretty big fitness fanatic and probably train way to hard for senior contact hockey, but I enjoy it. That being said my personal hunch and this is just an opinion is that he’s carrying to much weight. 5’11 208 is what he’s listed and I believe it he looks thicker. The average NHL forward is 6’1 198. If he’s 6’1 he’s 218-220 pounds. He’s currently one of the heaviest forwards height per inch. Now he may have a large frame but I know from expierence I also have a very large frame for 5’10 I train sport specific for hockey and know once I hit over 190lbs my speed and explosiveness takes a bit of hit even if I’m training all the right ways. 183-187 is the sweet spot.

I realize I sound a bit ridiclous here lol but it’s my honest opinion ....if it’s right or wrong who knows. But I think he needs to get on a big time speed training program in the summer with a lot of plyometrics/sprints and try and get down to 190-195lbs. His speed and especially his acceleration is not very good.
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I'd love to see him focus on some plyos and lean out, that seems like a huge leak in his game and luckily, there's a direct remedy.

Chiming in on weight-gate, though - I'm skeptical of his listed weight. I've posted this before but ran into him in the airport last year. We chatted for a minute (I asked him why Clode was slotting Cousins over him in shootouts). He definitely had a few pounds on me but 208 just seems crazy inflated.
 

Miller Time

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Mrb1p said:
Most players are fully developped at 21-22, then its just experience. 25 is a ridiculous number.
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Physically? not at all.

montreal said:
His problem has been 2 bad stretches, one in Feb were he had only 2 pts in 9 games and then in March where he had 1 pt in 6 games.

So if you broke his season into,

the bad,
15-1-2-3

the rest,
25-7-15-22

Now of course it doesn't really work like that, you can't just take out his 2 bad stretches but if you look at all the rest of his season aside from those 15 games, he's never gone more then 2 games without a point.

So the question is what happened in Feb? During those 9 games, only 3 games did he play less then 18:45. From March through April, he's played over over 18:45 7 out of 20 games. During that time he's got 11 pts in 20 games which is half the season and a pace of 45 pts.
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yup... not at all unexpected for a young player to have some tough stretches. Heck, lots of veterans go through droughts during the season. What separates the consistently elite players is that they are able to rebound quickly, so the peaks & valleys in a season look more like rolling foothills.

with Suzuki's head for the game and his apparent dedication to offseason training, i don't doubt that he'll smooth out those gaps year over year, and eventually be the kind of guy who maintains close to a ppg pace, playing 19-20min/night of high level 2-way hockey... we just need a little patience and perspective
 
Dondini

Dondini

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covfefe said:
I'd love to see him focus on some plyos and lean out, that seems like a huge leak in his game and luckily, there's a direct remedy.

Chiming in on weight-gate, though - I'm skeptical of his listed weight. I've posted this before but ran into him in the airport last year. We chatted for a minute (I asked him why Clode was slotting Cousins over him in shootouts). He definitely had a few pounds on me but 208 just seems crazy inflated.
Click to expand...

I hear yah man but weight can get hidden very well in the legs and hips region. I know anyone is surprised that I’m 185-195lbs at 5’9 3/4. That’s morning weight as well. Most people think I’m much much lighter. I’m not saying your wrong tho. I just don’t know why they would want to inflate it to a point where they know it might get criticized. I mean they changed Gallagher’s weight this year to 183 from 184. I’m not certain but I believe they put something in the nhl to make heights and weights more accurate.
 
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Mrb1p

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Miller Time said:
Physically? not at all.



yup... not at all unexpected for a young player to have some tough stretches. Heck, lots of veterans go through droughts during the season. What separates the consistently elite players is that they are able to rebound quickly, so the peaks & valleys in a season look more like rolling foothills.

with Suzuki's head for the game and his apparent dedication to offseason training, i don't doubt that he'll smooth out those gaps year over year, and eventually be the kind of guy who maintains close to a ppg pace, playing 19-20min/night of high level 2-way hockey... we just need a little patience and perspective
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Physically is a very broad term. Strength related, obviously not,. Speed ? Most likely. Cardiovascular ? Most likely that peaks in the early 20s and stays similar until the very early 30s.

With that said, most players do peak as offensive players around that age, they just gain more experience after that, thus obviously get marginally better. Its been seen over and over.
 
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26Mats

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Mrb1p said:
Yes every player is different indeed, but thats seven season before KKs peak, its quite a large number.

At some point, what you see is what you get and that territory will start soon and end somewhere around 23.
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I agree with this, except for the certainty that it will be around 23 - unless that means it could be 24, maybe even 25.
 
Dondini

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All this talk about when a player peaks, it’s proven the average player peaks in point production at about 25 years old.
 
Mrb1p

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Dondini said:
All this talk about when a player peaks, it’s proven the average player peaks in point production at about 25 years old.
Click to expand...
war-basic-chart.png



22-24 seems to be the average plateau

Edit: This is also for every NHL player, stars/high picks shouldn't be treated the same way.
 
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Miller Time

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Mrb1p said:
Physically is a very broad term. Strength related, obviously not,. Speed ? Most likely. Cardiovascular ? Most likely that peaks in the early 20s and stays similar until the very early 30s.

With that said, most players do peak as offensive players around that age, they just gain more experience after that, thus obviously get marginally better. Its been seen over and over.
Click to expand...

as broad as "physically" is, "offensive players" is probably even broader lol.

What exactly are you refering to re. "peak as offensive players"? Certainly not in point production or goal scoring, that's obvious. So i am very curious as to by what metrics you have seen this "offensive peak" over and over?

i'd argue that outside of some very narrow physical metrics, there are very few aspects of sport performance where individuals peak at 21-22. That "marginal" improvement over time that arises as a result of experience, continued physical maturation, and most influentially, emotional/psychological maturation, lead to a peak in most, if not all, team sports (by any quantifiable output) somewhere closer to mid-20's
 
Dondini

Dondini

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Mrb1p said:
war-basic-chart.png



22-24 seems to be the average plateau

Edit: This is also for every NHL player, stars/high picks shouldn't be treated the same way.
Click to expand...

25 is right there but yes I get your point. I’ve preached for a long time that a players prime and peak are a lot younger than most people think. I swear these old GMs are just so old they think 33-34 year olds are young men, because they are compared to them lol.
 
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Toene

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Dondini said:
I hear yah man but weight can get hidden very well in the legs and hips region. I know anyone is surprised that I’m 185-195lbs at 5’9 3/4. That’s morning weight as well. Most people think I’m much much lighter. I’m not saying your wrong tho. I just don’t know why they would want to inflate it to a point where they know it might get criticized. I mean they changed Gallagher’s weight this year to 183 from 184. I’m not certain but I believe they put something in the nhl to make heights and weights more accurate.
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"5ft9 3/4"
Bro just say five ten nobody will know. Im exactly same height as you lol
 
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montreal

montreal

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Suzuki a hair away from a .64 ppg, he's at .6341 after getting a .58 last year. When posters say he should be sent down I want to bang my head against the wall. Granted I understand the thinking, he has games where he doesn't look right but if not for a terrible month of Feb, he stats would be much much better. They just need to keep his ice time in check.
 
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26Mats

26Mats

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montreal said:
Suzuki a hair away from a .64 ppg, he's at .6341 after getting a .58 last year. When posters say he should be sent down I want to bang my head against the wall. Granted I understand the thinking, he has games where he doesn't look right but if not for a terrible month of Feb, he stats would be much much better. They just need to keep his ice time in check.
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He went pointless in his last 8 games last year if I remeber correctly. Perhaps that's why his points dipped.

Anyways, hopefully the Suzuki we're seeing now is only a shell of the player we'll see in the future. He's not yet able to consistently drive play.
 
Dondini

Dondini

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Mrb1p said:
I say Im 5'11 and 3/4 but most days Im rrally 5'10 and a half.
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I get no point in lying about height lol. It’s not like Im trying to sound tall by saying 5’9 3/4 That is morning tho I’m more like 5’9 1/2 at game time after some gravity spinal compression. Lol.

tbh I could care less about my height but I know playing hockey I worry more about my weight relative to my height. 200 is good for 6’1. Not so much for me. And I just think Nick is carrying a little bit to much weight. He was faster last year. He did something wrong in training is my guess.
 
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Mrb1p

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Dondini said:
I get no point in lying about height lol. It’s not like Im trying to sound tall by saying 5’9 3/4 lol. That is morning tho I’m more like 5’9 1/2 at game time after some gravity spinal compression. Lol.

tbh I could care less about my height but I know playing hockey I worry more about my weight relative to my height. 200 is good for 6’1. Not so much for me. And I just think Nick is carrying a little bit to much weight. He was faster last year. He did something wrong in training is my guess.
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Im 5'11 3/4 in the morning and like 5'10 flat in the afternoon, so sad.

Dont think he ever was fast and its not speed related, hes just never moving his feet.
 
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Miller Time

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Mrb1p said:
war-basic-chart.png



22-24 seems to be the average plateau

Edit: This is also for every NHL player, stars/high picks shouldn't be treated the same way.
Click to expand...

WAR is a useful and interesting metric overall, but, as i understand it, very poor and ill-suited to be used in evaluating peak capacity, which is different than peak output...
 
Mrb1p

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BigDaddyLurch

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Mrb1p said:
Even on weigh-in day, the numbers always lie

Read this, small quote by St louis that is talking about his height being boosted every year.

Id be a solid 6' if I was in pro sports, yay.
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...damn...guess I'd be Paul freakin' Wight if I played...:laugh:


EDIT: gotta say, however, that Chara looked every bit the 6'9 he's listed as when I saw them play Tampa last year...my shyza that man is huge...
 
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