Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part X

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,764
53,495
Citizen of the world
some of you guys are too much...

Suzuki, 21 years old, 2nd season (after starting last year just barely making the roster), 1st as a pencilled in top-6 player...

leads forwards in ice time
improved his ppg
leads C's in scoring

shows very expected inconsistency, yet is handling the responsibility while performing at that level...

His season is absolutely a success thus far, and very good indication that he's well on his way to be a very good, if not elite, top-line caliber C.

patience is both necessary and well justified. some posters just need to check their own, unrealistic, expectations... not his fault his GM was/is so clueless in roster building.
Is what you see on the ice a success ? Thats the thing for me, stats are fine, kinda like Drouin, but the play man..
 

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
22,838
15,041
Is what you see on the ice a success ? Thats the thing for me, stats are fine, kinda like Drouin, but the play man..

yes, but my expectations heading into the season was for him to be more/less what we've seen... strong start, some dips through the season, but not enough that he's hurting the team legitimately better off sitting.

I was under no illusion that we'd see him carry the playoff level through a full season, especially not with the condensed/no training camp/minimal practice realities...

while ppl are aware of how that is a strain on older players due to wear/tear, i think the challenge for young players psychologically is just as big. The practice time/training camp factors, as well as the adjusting to life routines in a professional environment (which involves less hand holding/control than the junior/NCAA levels) are all factors that impact day-to-day consistency... which is the hardest thing for a young player to fully develop.

I think both JKO and Suzuki have done better than expected when you factor all of these things in AND that the team had heavy playoff expectations with them front and center in a crucial role (top-9 C's).

Staal, a veteran of immense experience and talent, who is a year removed from still being a high impact top 9 C, came in and couldn't justify being played ahead of them... that doesn't mean that they are giving us enough as top-9C's for a playoff team consistently, but again, that's not on them, that's on MB and the roster he assembled.

2-3 years down the road... if Suzuki gives us a season like this, then sure, i'd be disappointed and expecting more. THis year and next? ~18min/night putting up team leading offensive production and not being a defensive liability... that's pretty good for a 21-22 year old. It's not McDavid/Matthews, sure, but Suzuki & JKO were always going to be mid-20's top-6 impact vs out-of-the-gate stars.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
73,942
43,021
I think another factor is that with him having such a great start, teams probably starting honing in on him and probably checking him a little harder. This season hasn't been great but it hasn't been terrible either.

If you look back earlier in this thread I cautioned people to lower expectations. There was just too much hype and then when he inevitably doesn't live up to it, it's seen as a failure.

There will be ups and downs. He's so young and he's still producing. All good as far as I'm concerned and I think we'll see a better season out of him next year.

And YES, as somebody pointed out... we need to get some help on D to help not only Price but the offense as well.
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
39,551
38,961
I expect slumps but the worrying thing for me is how awful his acceleration and general skating is. If he stops moving he’s out of the play and can’t recover. I don’t see a top line centre as others hoped.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
13,353
13,962
I expect slumps but the worrying thing for me is how awful his acceleration and general skating is. If he stops moving he’s out of the play and can’t recover. I don’t see a top line centre as others hoped.
The hope was Suzuki / KK would be a Bergeron / Krejci type 60-70 point combo when they mature. Nothings changed it’s still achievable...
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
39,551
38,961
The hope was Suzuki / KK would be a Bergeron / Krejci type 60-70 point combo when they mature. Nothings changed it’s still achievable...

So they would need a miracle goaltending performance and a HOF defenceman in his prime to be able to win the Cup.

I think they need to strive for a bit more. I don’t think KK or Suzuki will ever reach the level of Bergeron. We are talking about a 70 point 4 time Selke winner.
 

Dondini

Registered User
Apr 28, 2010
3,367
2,811
I’ve researched a quite a bit about specific hockey training, heights, weights, I’m also a pretty big fitness fanatic and probably train way to hard for senior contact hockey, but I enjoy it. That being said my personal hunch and this is just an opinion is that he’s carrying to much weight. 5’11 208 is what he’s listed and I believe it he looks thicker. The average NHL forward is 6’1 198. If he’s 6’1 he’s 218-220 pounds. He’s currently one of the heaviest forwards height per inch. Now he may have a large frame but I know from expierence I also have a very large frame for 5’10 I train sport specific for hockey and know once I hit over 190lbs my speed and explosiveness takes a bit of hit even if I’m training all the right ways. 183-187 is the sweet spot.

I realize I sound a bit ridiclous here lol but it’s my honest opinion ....if it’s right or wrong who knows. But I think he needs to get on a big time speed training program in the summer with a lot of plyometrics/sprints and try and get down to 190-195lbs. His speed and especially his acceleration is not very good.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
31,747
24,141
The hope was Suzuki / KK would be a Bergeron / Krejci type 60-70 point combo when they mature. Nothings changed it’s still achievable...

I would stick with them. But I wouldn't expect them to be fully developed until they're 25. So, we should be still looking for a good offensive C in the meantime. Suzuki can play wing in the meantime. He's a natural C so he can go back to C when he's more physically mature and experienced.

If we can't find that C, we need to find a player who can drive the play from the wing - i.e. what Drouin was supposed to do when he replaced Radulov, but is completely and totally incapable of doing.
 

Garo

Registered User
Jul 30, 2005
11,483
1,606
Montréal
So they would need a miracle goaltending performance and a HOF defenceman in his prime to be able to win the Cup.

Yeah but that's pretty much what the GM thinks we'll have for a while and why this is not going to work out very well
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
31,747
24,141
21 year old center on pace for 50 points over a full season oh what a tragedy it’s been

The thing is he started out really hot. So over the last 30 games he's probably been scoring closer to a 30 point pace.

But, he's 22. There's plenty of time for the future. Only, for the present, we need an upgrade if we want to be competitive.
 

Archijerej

Registered User
Jan 17, 2005
8,414
7,886
Poland
He's going to be just fine imo. Obviously, his conditioning is not up to the standard of increased responsibilities under a wacky schedule. I didn't expect much more before the season started.

Same for Kotkaniemi. I wanted an improvement on his rookie season (last season was a write off) and he delivered.

We're not where we want to be as a team and it would be foolish to lay the responsibility at the feet of those two. The only relevant question should be about the ultimate potential of our two young centers and the kind of wingers we should provide them.

Suzukis' lack of footspeed may put a ceiling on what he can accomplish, but he's still going to be a very good player.

Kotkaniemi is more of a wild card, because his game will be dependant on physical maturity. He's far from a finished product right now.
 
Last edited:

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
31,747
24,141
He's going to be just fine imo. Obviously, his conditioning is not up to the standard of increased responsibilities under a wacky schedule. I didn't expect much more before the season started.

Same for Kotkaniemi. I wanted an improvement on his rookie season (last season was a write off) and he delivered.

We're not where we want to be as a team and it would be foolish to lay the responsibility at the feet of those two. The only relevant question should be about the ultimate potential of our two young centers and the kind of wingers we should provide them.

Suzukis' lack of footspeed may put a ceiling on what he can accomplish, but he's still going to be a very good player.

Kotkaniemi is more of a wild card, because his game will be dependant on physical maturity. He's far from a finished product right now.

I'm fine with having Suzuki play wing in the short term if we have the chance to upgrade.
 

montreal

Go Habs Go
Mar 21, 2002
57,340
39,859
www.youtube.com
The thing is he started out really hot. So over the last 30 games he's probably been scoring closer to a 30 point pace.

But, he's 22. There's plenty of time for the future. Only, for the present, we need an upgrade if we want to be competitive.

His problem has been 2 bad stretches, one in Feb were he had only 2 pts in 9 games and then in March where he had 1 pt in 6 games.

So if you broke his season into,

the bad,
15-1-2-3

the rest,
25-7-15-22

Now of course it doesn't really work like that, you can't just take out his 2 bad stretches but if you look at all the rest of his season aside from those 15 games, he's never gone more then 2 games without a point.

So the question is what happened in Feb? During those 9 games, only 3 games did he play less then 18:45. From March through April, he's played over over 18:45 7 out of 20 games. During that time he's got 11 pts in 20 games which is half the season and a pace of 45 pts.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,764
53,495
Citizen of the world
I would stick with them. But I wouldn't expect them to be fully developed until they're 25. So, we should be still looking for a good offensive C in the meantime. Suzuki can play wing in the meantime. He's a natural C so he can go back to C when he's more physically mature and experienced.

If we can't find that C, we need to find a player who can drive the play from the wing - i.e. what Drouin was supposed to do when he replaced Radulov, but is completely and totally incapable of doing.

Most players are fully developped at 21-22, then its just experience. 25 is a ridiculous number.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
31,747
24,141
Most players are fully developped at 21-22, then its just experience. 25 is a ridiculous number.

It's not ridiculous at all.

Go look at Hertl and Couturier's numbers.

What a ridiculous post you posted.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
31,747
24,141
Don't forget Drou Drou, just hitting his stride @ 26...

Well there are always in exceptions.

I think we should keep Drouin's 5.5M cap hit on the roster until he's 35. If he can't figure it out by 35, time to put on the big boy pants and cut our losses.
 

crosbyshow

Registered User
Aug 25, 2017
1,578
2,043
The dude is 5.11 and.......210 pounds....

..21 years old.

When I saw that early January ..I was like...he is too heavy....then he was awesome the first 2 weeks of the season and I thought oh well.

Crosby did a big chunck of his career at 200 pounds at 5.11 and he has some huge legs and butt. Now at 33 he is at 205.

I still think that Nick could be at 195 pounds and would be fine.

I dont know..People are so stuck with the famous 6.0 or 200 pounds.

Some of the best players in history were less that...Crosby, Yzerman, Sakic etc..
 

BigDaddyLurch

Have some PRIDE, Eric...
Sponsor
Mar 1, 2013
21,800
18,274
Principle's Office
Well there are always in exceptions.

I think we should keep Drouin's 5.5M cap hit on the roster until he's 35. If he can't figure it out by 35, time to put on the big boy pants and cut our losses.

...or let him make the smooth transition to Head Coach...he has fantastic floating abilities he can pass on...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->