26Mats
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2018
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We have a remarkable rookie squad coming up. Fantastic!
Really looking forward to even development camp, let alone rookie camp and main camp.
We have a remarkable rookie squad coming up. Fantastic!
As did many and all we hoped for was a long playoff run for the kid.
Not sure about the haters but I guess if you question anything about any Hab you get that label.
Preach!If you systematically question everything Hab-related and only see negative all the time, the label fits. If you question as part of a balanced conversation, it's normal.
There are plenty who do fit the hater tag on this and other forums.
Remains to be seen what the summer has in store for the roster, but for now, I'd say the nice thing is that there's little to no chance he makes the NHL lineup unless he clearly earns a top 6 spot...
He strikes me as a player that will benefit immensely from a year or two in the AHL, adjusting to the size & speed of the pros at a level where he can/should still be able to be an impact player from day one.
I certainly hope that when he does crack the Habs roster, it's as a top 6 player that is ready to produce (& not as a project/ brought up too soon)
I wish this for ALL our prospects. Let them incubate in Laval with Bouchard and them come up when their fully ripe.
Given that we have guys like Shaw/Lehkonen/Byron interchanging in and out of the Top 6 - if Suzuki is ready let him play. If he isn’t ready, than the AHL is the right call.
Those guys don’t below anywhere near a Top 6.
Byron has had two straight 20 goal seasons followed by a season on pace for over 20 but hurt for a while.
Who the he*l are you to say he doesn't belong "anywhere near" a Top 6? I guess 7th would be near, maybe 8th too, right?
Andrew Shaw produced for 63 games at a FIRST line rate - 0.75ppg!! He might not do that exact production again, but "nowhere near top 6"? Dude, where do you come off showing such disrespect?
Lehkonen is not a top-6er based on his production. Shaw and Byron seem not be based on your prejudices. Not the same thing.
Just to put things in context, Byron is 53rd among wingers in goals scored the past three seasons.
Andrew Shaw was 19th among RW this year in ppg. There are 62 top-6 RWers, and a few more "somewhere near". Shaw had more ppg this year than:
some of whom are even CENTERS that should get more points than wingers.
- Kopitar
- Dubois
- Marchessault
- JVR
- Getzlaf
If you're going to disrespect the achievements of Habs players, does it have to be on a Hab fan board?
Shaw won cups playing a top 6 role.No different than when the Leafs of ten years ago had guys like Ponikorovski in their top-6 - they get points but that doesn’t mean they are any good.
If you think this team can compete with Byron and Shaw in the top-6, you’re just as delusional as Bergevin.
No different than when the Leafs of ten years ago had guys like Ponikorovski in their top-6 - they get points but that doesn’t mean they are any good.
If you think this team can compete with Byron and Shaw in the top-6, you’re just as delusional as Bergevin.
We "can compete" with Shaw in the top-6, and Byron and Lehkonen in the bottom-6, PRECISELY BECAUSE Byron is a well-above average scorer for a bottom 6 winger and Lehkonen is a good defensive player who can score a bit.
In order to compete on this basis, we need Domi to maintain his level, Kotkaniemi to progress and for our LD to provide more puck movement, which will help the forwards.
Shaw won cups playing a top 6 role.
I prefer Byron on the fourth and have him move up when the injury bug hits
There's a few narratives that bother me on this and other boards.
The biggest one is when posters maintain that a player only got top-6 production because, essentially, he got top-6 minutes.
Seriously?
Those posters make it sound like anybody given top-6 minutes would get a top-6 production. At some point, logic needs to take over Ladies and Germs.
Danault only cracked 50 points because he was given top-line minutes?
Wow. Top-line minutes AT EVEN STRENGTH ONLY and, also, IN A SHUTDOWN ROLE against the opponents' best line, usually with plenty more D-zone starts than O-zone starts. Yeah, that sure sounds like a player that was spoon fed quality minutes undeservedly.
Shaw created stuff when he was on the ice. He deserved the .75 PPG production that he got when playing in a top-6 role because he contributed to his line producing. When he was injured, the team suffered as a result because it was now playing mostly on one line.
The only difference with Byron, honestly, is that he will score his points whether he plays in the top-6 or not. For that reason, alone, I would use him in the bottom-6, to add more scoring depth to a team in need of it.
The real argument that can be made isn't whether the players producing as top-6 players in top-6 minutes are top-6 players, but, rather, whether they are impactful players in a top-6 role. That means, are they dominant outside of the points they are putting up.
Do Byron, Shaw or Dananult put the fear of God in opponents and attract attention from the opposing Ds that frees up their line mates? Does their defensive play enable their line mates to concentrate more on their offensive strengths and better produce as a result? Do they break up plays and regularly contribute to a counter attack?
The argument can be made that, perhaps, to compete for the Cup, Montreal would need better top-6 players than Danault, Byron and/or Shaw, but not that these players aren't top-6 players.
Small nuance, IMO.
[...]
The argument can be made that, perhaps, to compete for the Cup, Montreal would need better top-6 players than Danault, Byron and/or Shaw, but not that these players aren't top-6 players.
Small nuance, IMO.
No different than when the Leafs of ten years ago had guys like Ponikorovski in their top-6 - they get points but that doesn’t mean they are any good.
If you think this team can compete with Byron and Shaw in the top-6, you’re just as delusional as Bergevin.
Is the “hater” tag like the “not a true fan” tag of yesterday? LMAO!If you systematically question everything Hab-related and only see negative all the time, the label fits. If you question as part of a balanced conversation, it's normal.
There are plenty who do fit the hater tag on this and other forums.
Not sure who is delusional.
Over a four-year period, from ages 26-30, seasons 2006-2010, Ponikarovsky was 31st among RW in ppg while being a plus player. He was definitely a top-6 during that time, he just fell off quickly afterwards (after 30 yo in other words).
Only four teams had two LW ahead of Ponikarovsky during those years.
As for: "they get points but that doesn’t mean they are any good" - consider this: Getting points (without giving up a ton yourself) is a good thing, because in hockey, they award two points to the team that scores more goals during each contest. If you get a point, it means your team scored a goal!!
What is probably more true is that making a lot of posts doesn't mean they are all good.
I remember quite well how crap Ponikarovski was.
Maybe stick to Baseball?
He was crap because he played 20 minutes per game to get his 50 points? Nope.
He was crap because he would not backcheck and gave up a ton of goals against while on the ice? Nope.
He was crap because AFTER his good years, he fell off? Sure, he was crap AFTER age 30.
But if you thought he was crap during his prime, the problem is your evaluation criteria.
Ponikarovsky got 15 minutes per game and used them well for four years. Objectivity would be nice.
Ponikarovski scored at a 2nd liners pace playing top line minutes on a bottom feeder playing run and gun hockey to entertain the fans.
Maybe your memory doesn’t serve you as well as mine, there’s a reason he burnt out fast. He wasn’t good.
He played 2nd line minutes and had second line production, and if they were running and gunning, he held his own, remaining a plus player throughout.
Are you suggesting that safe players who produce little are better?
There have been many good players who slow down after 30. That doesn't meant they were no good before.
And how many playoffs did the Leafs make with Ponikarovsky in the top-6? That’s my point, and always has been my point.
How many playoffs has Montreal made with Byron/Shaw in the top 6? 1 out of 4.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
And how many playoffs did the Leafs make with Ponikarovsky in the top-6? That’s my point, and always has been my point.